I'm Living In Fear Of Black List

When WMA stated "unsolicited material", it means you'd sent them too much, too soon in your initial query. Query, then wait for them to ask you to send the synopsis, logline, etc. If they're interested, then they'll solicit the material from you.

gophergrrrl said:

I have two questions because of afforementioned situation. First being; why are the articles always telling writers to do this if agencies are, by policy, forbidden to read them? And secondly, seeing as how I've made this mistake more than once, am I going to end up on a blacklist? I'll admit that I, perhaps, do not completely understand the meaning or know the real reasons for writers ending up here, but it scares me to think that all my work could go down the drain due to a few little mistakes/misunderstandings on my part.

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1) If the article(s) you've read mention specific agents, query them. General info in an article isn't meant to be a blanket statement about the industry as a whole, however. You'll need to do just a little bit more research to find out which agencies ask for what and when, as well.

2) There is no blacklist, but now that you know, don't query WMA again unless you follow their guidelines.

Hiya gophergrrrl. Your post seems better suited for those good folks on our Scriptwriting board so I'll punt it over there.

(But my hunch is, the consensus will be you don't have to worry about being blacklisted. )

Making mistakes won't get you blacklisted.
Being obnoxious, rude, threatening, etc will.
If you get conflicting sub requirements--email the company and ask for a current sub guide since 'you've found conflicting information and you wish to be clear on their requirements'.

Yours is probably one of fifty that came the same day. No offense, but they won't remember your name in that regard. It seems more and more likely these days that the Big Four (WMA, CAA, UTA and ICM & others) tend to package projects from within with existing writers, directors and actors.

Did you send them just a query letter or did you send them a script/manuscript as well?

I thought the Red Scare was over. Do we have any of the Hollywood ten amongst us? Are Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand's ghosts making you itchy?

gophergrrrl said:

I've heard the term thrown around; articles from various sources mention that the blacklist is a place that a writer doesn't want to find themselves when searching for an agency to represent them. Recently, I just happened to find myself a bit scared of something I've done with three agencies already, and I'm scared that maybe this might get me blacklisted. So, here is my story.

I've always been one to do tons of research for everything I need to know about my writing. I've made a few slip ups here and there, but for the most part, I feel like I have a pretty decent grasp on what I need to do and how I need to do it. I submitted query letters to three agencies in the past couple of months, one being the WMA in Hollywood, (as they are the only branch that handles writer/directors... or so the lady in Nashville told me). Today, via certified mail, I received a package from the WMA, and inside was everything I had sent to them, my letter; opened but still in the envelope and my sase. Also, there was a letter from the WMA. It said, and I'm paraphrasing, that corporate policy forbids them to read what I had sent, due to there being 'unsolicited material' in my letter. (I submitted a logline for my screenplay along with the query.) According the many articles that I've read, it's ok to send an agent that sort of thing, synopsis, logline, brief explanations of your work, etc., but the agency told me they couldn't accept it.

I have two questions because of afforementioned situation. First being; why are the articles always telling writers to do this if agencies are, by policy, forbidden to read them? And secondly, seeing as how I've made this mistake more than once, am I going to end up on a blacklist? I'll admit that I, perhaps, do not completely understand the meaning or know the real reasons for writers ending up here, but it scares me to think that all my work could go down the drain due to a few little mistakes/misunderstandings on my part.

I'd really appreciate if someone could give me some information on this stuff. Thank you in advance. =o]

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Okay -- the only "blacklist" as such would be in reference to people who had demonstrated that they were -- well -- nuts.

Stalkers, people who had followed agents to their cars, shown up unannounced and tried to get into the offices -- sent make-believe bombs to the office with a note saying, "Enclosed, find your next "blockbuster!!!"

People like that.

What you have come up against is simply -- The Big High Wall.

You are one of tens of thousands of unsold screenwriters who would like to be repped by a major agent at a major agency.

They don't want to read tens of thousands of scripts from amateurs, virtually all of which are likely to be unreadable dreck.

They don't even really want to read tens of thousands of "cover letters" -- which in itself takes up a great big chunk of time.

What they want to do is this:

They want to represent the people that they already repping with known track records whose work (whether as writers, directors, or actors) are a known quantity in the industry, which makes them easy to market.

They want to represent people that are repped by *other* agents around town who are also successful, but who might not be happy with their agents.

They want to rep people who might not currently have an agent but who have, through their own resources, managed to break into the business in a significant way and are currently hot (you may think that this doesn't happen, but it does. I was one of these people).

They might -- and it's a big "might" -- be willing to represent beginners who have had material optioned or those who currently have an offer on the table. There are those who think that this is a magic ticket to representation. It is not.

They might (again might) be willing to look at the work of an unsold writer, provided that they have a recommendation, either from a client, or even better, from a buyer -- that is, a producer, or a studio exec who says, "You've got to take a look at this script I just read. I think it's fantastic."

A very small number of mid-level or beginning agents (usually at smaller agencies) are willing to look at unsolicited queries -- that is, letters from strangers who are completely unvetted that come across the transom.

Or, to be precise, they are willing to allow their assistants' time to be used in reading such letters. If the assistant can find the occasion grain of wheat in the midst of the ocean of chaff that comes in the way of such letters -- and that grain of wheat happens to be your script, then they may request that you sign a release form and send it to them.

That will elevate your script to the level of having, perhaps, one chance in five hundred (if you're lucky) of being read -- first by a reader, and if he recommends it, then by the assistant, and if he recommends it, then by the junior agent -- and if he likes it and passes it up to his boss and his boss likes it, you'll probably get a "hip pocket" deal.

That is, you won't be signed, but the agent will agree to try to sell that one script.

That will generally consist of picking "one way in" at each studio. That is, one development company who either has a deal or some relationship with a given studio, and who will agree to take the script in.

If the script then goes to every studio and every studio passes -- that's it. Game over.

Now, some agents might be willing to go further with you. Many won't.

But at any rate, the amount of time that an agent is going to spend on you, given your position in the business, will be small. The chances of selling your script -- an unknown work from an unknown and unsold writer, are small. It will take a lot more work on his part and if it does sell, it will probably sell for not much money, which means that his ten percent will be ten percent of not very much.

From his perspective, it's an investment that may pay off in the future, but it's speculative, and he has to invest most of his time and effort on things that he knows are likely to pay off now -- and those are his well-known high-paying clients.

There are always exceptions, but that's pretty much how things work.

It may seem like a blacklist but it's not. Everyone in your position is being treated the same. They are doing their best to keep all of you out. It's nothing personal.

Most big agencies simply will not accept unsolicited manuscript. Most will not even accept any new clients at all without a recommendation, which makes it pretty pointless to query them.

While it may seem unreasonable, from their perspective, it's the only way that they can do business -- their business being to find work for their clients -- and not to spend thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year reviewing the work of amateur would-be screenwriters.

NMS

You are fine. Nothing to worry about. They have to be careful. It was nothing personal and like others said, I bet they have stacks of such letters waiting to be sent to the many others who do that.

It's a liability issue. Agenices cover their asses by only accepting material from people they know, thru lawyers or recommendations. It's standard company policy. Any unsolicitied material is to be sent to the legal department, where it is returned to the sender. Don't take it personally. There is no blacklist. (Except for the annual list praising scripts.)

When I was at ICM, agent Brian Sher (now a manager) read an e-mail query, signed the unknown writers, attached Jim Carrey to their script and sold it for a million dollars (PIERRE, PIERRE). ICM has the "NO UNSOLICITED POLICY" too.

gophergrrrl said:

And finally, NMStevens; I have to admit, it does hurt my feelings or perhaps confidence, I'm not sure exactly which, that you would make my chances sound so.... non existant. I've found that this board is full of other hard working writers who are trying to break into the industry, and this is one place that we all have to come together and help one another; to stick together. I didn't need to hear that I have virtually no chance of anything, and I surely don't believe that. I believe that all of us here have every chance in the world if we all want it enough and work hard enough for it. That's what this board is about, to me anyway. If we all support and help one another, who's to say that we can't all make our mark someday? However, someone once told me to be thankful for any situation where someone is willing to teach me something, and also to be open to learning it. So, nevertheless, I appreciate that you took a great deal of time to type me out a paragraph of knowledge and strong opinion.
Thanks everyone for answering my questions! =o]

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NMStevens knows what he's talking about.

He didn't say you had no chance. He said the chance was small. There was no criticism of you or your work - just a description of how the industry functions. (And an accurate one, at that.) If your feelings were hurt by the truth, well, that's your fault, not his.

Being supportive doesn't mean telling someone what they want to hear; it means telling someone what they need to hear.

I agree with Smiling Ted. Telling someone that the chances are anything other than horrible is irresponsible, deluded, and cruel.

Gophergirl,

You didn't screw up royally, you're not on a blacklist, you're getting EXCELLENT advice and perspective from NMS. It is an incredibly difficult uphill task you (WE) are facing. Best to understand that. You will be praised and rejected - over - and over - and over - You have to be ready for that. The odds are slim. They are stacked against you. You're swimming in a HUGE slush pile, hoping to get picked ...

That means you have to be as perfect as you can be, create as many opportunites for 'luck' to occur,and be ready when it does.


Keep writing.

In addition to what NMS said, it's exactly what creativeexec said, no more and no less. People in the movie business are hit with nuisance lawsuits on practically a daily basis by people who say things like, "I sent a postcard to Steven Spielberg when he was 12 and wrote a joke about an alien in suburbia, and now I expect 8 quazillion dollars in back royalties from ET."

The agency probably did not want to in any way formally accept your material just in case they had an idea in development that is anywhere close to yours, so that you couldn't later accuse them of stealing your idea.

Before you can formally submit a pitch to any company in the movie business (well, most), they will make you sign all sorts of forms which absolve them of responsibility in case they steal your idea. Without that, they will take your pitch, cover their eyes while handing it to the legal department, and send it back with a cover note such as the one you got. I've had queries returned along with disclaimer forms and instructions to resubmit the query along with the disclaimer.

Start off with a very basic query, or even better, ask for their submission guidelines. Sometimes they won't even read a one-page query without that disclaimer form.

I'm surprised at how often and how many newbies come here asking questions and end up not liking what NMS says. (But, enough with dead horses...)

You sent to much to WMA. Of course, in your situation, sending them anything would have been to much, as they don't consider new writers.

You could go here:
http://www.wgaeast.org/index.php/articles/article/498?startnum=&sort=&letter=&wgc=144#wga498
and click on
Download WGAE Agency List
for more info, I suppose

And, I've gotta say something (negativity warning)... and I wouldn't say it if you hadn't said you did tons of research... but, well, it doesn't seem like you did tons of research... if one third of your queries (at a minimum) went to companies like WMA, well... that path won't get you where you want to go... but, I'm also prone to think the other companies are in similar boats as WMA (based on the small number of queries), which might lead me to believe that all three of the companies you queried don't accept material from new writers...

Anyway, it's good to have multiple scripts under your belt when trying to find an agent

Wow, why don't you guys just let the girl address NM and not feel the need to come to his aid? She addressed it to him. Leave it. She has a right to her opinion. It feels like a clique and it is interesting that it is the same group from the Inktip thread. I am not a newbie and I don't always like his posts. I am stopping it right here. Gophergrrrl said something to NM, not anyone else at that point.

I appreciate your sentiment naimas but as long as they do it respectfully and productively, members are free to address whatever posts or comments they like. If they weren't free to do that, we wouldn't have any kind of open conversation at all.

I understand what you're saying, you feel this is like a pile-on but I think gophergrrrl's doing fine. She's got some good information here, enough to get started on.

I was going to close this but in the interest of free speech, I'll leave it open. But if it gets uglier, I'll consider it derailed and lock it.

And I really don't want to have to do that so let's all show how restrained and respectful we can be.

Matt Damon!

naimas said:

Wow, why don't you guys just let the girl address NM and not feel the need to come to his aid?

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Because it happens too often and he has sound, accurate words.

Well, gophergirl's response to my post really put me in a very awkward position, because it was like -- yet again, I'm getting tagged with the Mr. Negativity label.

And when she posted her logline and asked for comments, while I was tempted to respond, I actually refrained from doing it, because at some point she said something to the effect of -- does anyone have anything good to say about it -- meaning her logline.

Ultimately, I chose not to say anything. Honestly, I didn't want to be put in a position of having to give a compliment just to do it, when I feel that the point of these things is to identify what needs to be fixed, not what's working.

Look, I guess I know as well as anybody that a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down -- but I've kind of gone beyond that. In fact, I have to give myself shots -- and there's really no sugar of any kind involved in that. You want the medicine, you just stick the needle in.

It's never been my goal to bring anybody down. I just want to give people the tools that they need to undertake what is going to be a very difficult battle, even for the most talented person embarking on this road.

If I see somebody starting out across the Gobi desert wearing cut-offs with a bottle of Evian and I say, "You know, it's a three week walk across that desert, and you really need to prepare yourself, master how to survive in a desert, take sufficient food and water, dress appropriately -- and by the way, people who go out in the Gobi desert without proper preparation, say wearing cut-offs and carrying a bottle of Evian -- ninety-nine times out of a hundred -- they end up as bleached bones --

-- maybe I'm just being Mr. Negative.

The way I look at it, information about how things work in the business you're looking to succeed in is never negative, so long as it's accurate information.

That's because accurate information allows you to properly arm yourself as you move forward.

It keeps you from wasting your time.

It keeps you from having unrealistic expectations.

It allows you to use your resources more effectively.

If you know how things work, it makes you seem like more of a professional when you deal with professionals in the business.

If the odds are long and the wall is high -- then the odds are small and the wall is high, whether anyone has told you about it or not.

But if you know that, for instance, mid-level agents at smaller agencies are more likely to be open to new clients and to read your material than big agents at major agencies -- then that's something that you can use to maximize your chances.

Or you can take your material directly to development companies -- there are a number of them who will also read your material, if properly queried.

But I have seen it happen more often than I can say -- I've seen it happen in film schools, in seminars, in writing groups, where nobody wants to be "negative" -- and the result is that nobody is prepared to address any elephants in the room -- realities about bad scripts, realities about unrealistic expectations, realities about the hard truths of the industry, about breaking in, about getting agents, about what will sell.

And nobody's interests are served by this.

I'm not looking to get into any feuds with anybody. It's a free country (at least for now). Anybody who doesn't like my advice doesn't have to take it.

Anybody who doesn't believe, or chooses not to accept my conclusions -- likewise, nobody says you have to.

I am truly not rooting for anybody to fail. I would like there to be a hundred times more movies made every year and I'd love for all of them to make a fortune -- because the more movies get made and the more money they make only improves my chances of selling things and having them get made.

This isn't a zero sum game. Everyone should only go and see everything -- twice.

When my movie comes out, I hope all of you go and see it twice.

And I hope that Gophergirl and others will accept my comments -- grim though they may seem, in the spirit in which they are offered, which is not to make anybody feel bad, but to provide information that might ultimately prove useful in what will likely prove to be a very difficult undertaking.

NMS

LIVIN said:

Because it happens too often and he has sound, accurate words.

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Was that tongue in cheek? This is what I read in the above eleven words.
This happens too often (confirmation one) and you feel the need to defend him because you agree with his views (confirmation two)

What happens too often? People question him? Isn't that freedom of speech?

I appreciated his last post. I did. We all have differing levels of experience that can benefit others. And it is important that even the learned express wisdom in an inclusive, encouraging way...even if it is harsh and honest.

naimas said:

Matt Damon!

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Are you suggesting that the best way for Gophergirl to get anyone to read her script is to appear in several feature films and become "the next big thing" as an actor after a breakout role in one?

Because that actually seems harder than the regular path to getting into screenwriting.

No. I was trying to lighten up the thread by quoting a stupid line from TEAM AMERICA:WORLD POLICE!

And to add to your question....no, it wouldn't work, unless you knew folks in the business. And sure, Ben Affleck is a help but he had a foot in the business long before Good Will Hunting. It would be like me suggesting Tori Spelling. Not a legit example for newbies or those outside Hollywood to follow. Finding a local film festival (more and more of them these days) and shacking up with a local company might help to get a beginner feature made. But you would have to check quality before going ahead with anything.