Teen Girls and Older Men

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DonnaDuck

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I just had an epiphany a couple weeks ago that I do believe I'm writing YA work and all of the clues that I've found not only here but on agent blogs seem to point to that as well and while my current WIP is in the process of changing tone, I still have one little hurdle.

At the beginning of the book my MC is around 13. By the end she'll be somewhere in the 18 to 20 range. Originally I was going to have her marry another character that was significantly older, just under 20 years her senior. This was when it would end with her in her mid 20s (this is fantasy, by the way). But since the ages of the characters are shifting (not due to outside sources but because that's what the story demands, as my pen tells me), the situation is changing a little. No marriage but I want her to crush him like there's no tomorrow (and not in the "I will crush you" Ahnold way either).

I know when I was younger I had the hots for men old enough to be my father. I was 8 when I was writing fan letters to Kevin Costner (25 now). That has since stopped. I've been a Kiefer Sutherland fan since I saw him in Flatliners when I was about 10. When I was 20 I dated a guy 12 years my senior (skeeved my parents a bit), my last boyfriend was 20 years my senior and even in high school I jonsed for some of my (student) teachers. The thing is just because I did it doesn't make is acceptable so how it would it be viewed to have a girl crush on a guy no less than 10 years older than her from the age of 15. Will I have a pitchfork wielding mob of parents after me for that?

An equal mob churning event, in another WIP one of the characters is going to fall for another. She'll be 17 and he's going to be early 20s somewhere, at most 23. I know it's fiction but she is 17, under the age of legality and he's not. I'm not concerned of the ramifications in the book's world. I'm not concerned about it at all. I'm concerned about the perceptions of parents and how they'll perceive a 17 year old girl dating a guy who's college age. I know it happens all the time but lets face it, people get their knickers in a bunch over this stuff. It's going to get written regardless because, at the moment, that's the way the story is and I'm not going to alter it out of fear but would parents be up in arms about something like this or has my brain pruded up since I was a teen?
 

Don Allen

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Well, i think the answer to your question is yes, most parents frown and sometimes get violent when they're children ,not so much have the crush, but act upon it. However, in real life teenage girls mature before boys and are attracted to older men, so I guess a lot will depend on how you write it.
 

Libbie

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Hey, I have a terrible, crippling crush on Teller (yes, the magician) who is 32 years older than me. I've had this crush for years and it's not going anywhere. (teeheehee, he's so cute!)

If it's fantasy, are you sure it's YA? I've read an awful lot of fantasy with important characters--sometimes outright protagonists--who were young girls involved with significantly older men. That seems to be an acceptable trope in fantasy if you're going for a pseudo-medieval-European setting. I doubt it's as acceptable in straight-up YA, but I doubt the content of Forever was acceptable in straight-up YA when Judy Blume first published it. You could stretch the boundaries of the genre somewhat, or you could find that you can't get it published without changing one of the characters' ages. I can see either scenario. :)


I'm just asking, are you truly certain that you're writing a YA novel and not a fantasy novel? What specifically makes you believe that this is YA and not fantasy?

As to whether it's "wrong," it's wrong because our society has declared it's wrong. Other societies feel differently about the issue. Go back in time a hundred years and it was perfectly normal. My great-grandpa began courting my great-grandma when she was 13, and he was 27. They married when she was 16. They stayed together their entire lives. "Wrong" depends on the setting and the society. Even readers who live in present-day Western society might not identify a relationship as "wrong" if the characters see it as perfectly normal for the society in which they live. If you're writing a modern-day urban fantasy, you might have a harder time justifying it in your reader's head, but if it's a fantasy set in something like 16th-century Romania, you might not have to worry about it at all. The setting might take care of that problem for you.

I also think how you handle the age difference will clue your readers in on what to think. If you constantly mention the age gap and make a point of showing how far apart they are, your readers will have that in their minds. If your 15-year-old protagonist is simply in love with a man who is obviously somewhat older, but it's never explained exactly how much older (but is evident by his character traits: Beard, established career, slightly less spunky or adventurous attitude) you can let the reader decide for herself whether the age gap is 20 years or 6 years. Either could be plausible.

I say, unless it bears significantly on the story, don't be specific about the age gap and let the reader infer that for herself. :)
 
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Esopha

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Some YA fantasy takes place over a long range of time, but usually these are series (Tamora Pierce, for example). So if you're talking about one book, I'd say it sounds more like straight fantasy than YA fantasy.

Now, if the MC has known her love interest for a long time, like he was babysitting her when she was 8 or something, then that would definitely open up a whole new level of squick. If they met when she's older (16-20ish) then I would say it's more acceptable.

17 and 23 bothers me not at all.
 

StoryG27

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Well, in real life, I was 16 and my Hubby was 20 when we met. I always liked older guys, but only slightly older, like five, six years max. Having said that, I wouldn't want my daughter reading a YA (fantasy or not) if the protag hooked up with/ totally crushed on (which basically means is obsessed with) or married a guy many years her senior.
 

Esopha

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OMG, I said expert on fantasy and Sophie appeared, like magic! (Sophie is the expert on YA fantasy by the way. Listen to her).

You just call... out my name...


Oh oh. Is this urban fantasy or fantasy based on a historical setting or alternate world fantasy? Urban fantasy increases squick while historical setting fantasy decreases squick, and alternate world fantasy you can get away with anything except in YA, in which the squick is still possible depending on how you handle the attraction/relationship.
 

DonnaDuck

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Libbie, you seem to be implying the story's darker than what it is. It used to be dark but the tone's taken a rather dramatic turn for the humorous as of late. At the moment, she's going to end up with someone around her own age and she won't be "hooking up" with this older guy at all and it certainly won't be an obsession. She won't be harvesting locks of hair or anything but there'll be definite crushing going on.

Definitely no babysitting scenarios. They met when she's older, early teens, 13 or 14. He harbors no interest in her beyond the "cute kid" thing, especially since he's already involved with someone else his own age. It'll actually end up being a sort of "this will never happen" sort of thing when everything wraps up. Didn't Full House do an episode like that? I know The Simpsons did when Lisa had a crush on her teacher.

The thing with the age, at this point is if I don't advance it, I don't have any filler. That could rightly change but at the moment, one book spans X number of years because I have nothing to fill it with yet. Although now my wheels are spinning. Dammit!

Storygirl, would you have a talk with your daughter if she had pictures of Brad Pitt or George Clooney up on her wall? I guess a slightly younger guy would be whatshisname, McDreamy there. Can't remember. Or, depending on her age, Ryan Gosling who's older than I am but has tweens swooning over him. I'd like your input on that.

The thing it, it is just a crush. No psycho stalking or crawling into his bed or anything like that. School girl, heart flutter when he comes near, babbling with words around him type of crush. Maybe my choice of words was wrong, or a little much, in the original post. I do think this is a YA piece just from what I have written now but I didn't know about the whole timeline of the book being an indicator on that.
 

DonnaDuck

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You just call... out my name...


Oh oh. Is this urban fantasy or fantasy based on a historical setting or alternate world fantasy? Urban fantasy increases squick while historical setting fantasy decreases squick, and alternate world fantasy you can get away with anything except in YA, in which the squick is still possible depending on how you handle the attraction/relationship.


The type of fantasy would help, huh? Dur. It's alternate world and there's definitely no squick, not based on your definition in your previous post, anyway. I just think it was my poor wording that made it sound like something more than what it's really going to be.
 

Esopha

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Okay. Based on what you've said about it being alternate universe and also remaining a crush type thing, I can definitely say that this is a fine and dandy scenario. It's also very probably YA fantasy. Go forth to great writing!
 

StoryG27

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Storygirl, would you have a talk with your daughter if she had pictures of Brad Pitt or George Clooney up on her wall? I guess a slightly younger guy would be whatshisname, McDreamy there. Can't remember. Or, depending on her age, Ryan Gosling who's older than I am but has tweens swooning over him. I'd like your input on that.
Yes, I would. My poor daughter, I have a talk with her over EVERYTHING. Poor dear. She thinks Chad Michael Murray is dreamy. She's not as twitterpated over him as she used to be because she has a "boyfriend." (A boy her age who she "like likes" and has been "dating" for almost a year now.) She's 11, so dating constitutes, well nothing really. They don't even call each other and they certainly are not allowed to hang out after school even though we live in the same neighborhood. Anyway, I used to ask her what made her like CMM, what makes her like the boy she likes now. I would let her have the posters if she had them (consequently she doesn't) but I wouldn't like them. I don't want her obsessing about anything. It's just not healthy, and I could have saved myself a lot of heartache if I hadn't been so silly with my emotions.
 
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