Scenes Vs. Chapters

What about changing your chapter length? They don't all have to be exactly 5 scenes long. And I have seen a symbol within chapters where the POV switches and such.

In my WIP, I have several one-scene chapters. I'm using 2 POVs, and it's working out that short chapters make the book flow better than longer chapters with breaks to indicate POV change. Maybe this could work for you?

Sure, I've seen both done: chapter headings and symbols within said chapters to denote transition. And I've seen books with no numbered chapters, using symbols instead. Then, within the chapter, a double space would clue the reader in to scene transition.

And I think most agents do stipulate you can send either the first three chapters or fifty pages, so you shouldn't have to worry about that. You can just explain your format if/when necessary.

Chapters are all about cadence. If you've got a cliffhanger at the end of the scene, then it works well to start a new chapter for the next scene.

So think of your chapters in terms of the dynamic of the story, not the settings.

Then, as jannawrite said, use a blank line to announce to readers it is a new scene. If the location is different from the previous scene, it's a good idea to make it obvious in the first paragraph, to avoid confusion for the reader.

Why do there have to be five scenes to a chapter? I let chapters determine their own lengths -- all a chapter has to do is to contain a discrete section of the story, whether that section ends up being 5000 words long or 50. One word chapters are not unknown.

I always divide scenes within a chapter by typing centered #'s between the scenes:

#####

The printer could decide what symbol to substitute for the #####'s, or he could just put extra line spaces between scenes.

Use Her Name said:

That would be if someone wanted somewhat similar length chapters. Since I don't use chapters it is not an issue. I was just saying If I wanted similar size chapters there would be 5 scenes in each (approximate). The point is that novels generally do not have 130-150 chapters. Each chapter is not a scene. But chapters are usually "in the same place," not all over the map.

Click to expand...

Chapters are as long as they need to be. An agent or editor will not demand that you have a certain amount of chapters, and each chapter be a certain page length. If one chapter needs to be 50 words, and another be 5,000 words, that's fine.

Some writers write in chapters. Some don't put chapter breaks in until after they finished writing the whole thing. Neither is better than the other; they are just different ways of writing.

Those scenes sound kinda' short. About 3 manuscript pages. You might want to take some books by your favorite (currently published, because pacing has changed over the years) authors and do some random scene-length checks and then see how yours stack up.

I suspect you'll find that while some scenes may be three pages or less, a substantial number will be longer than that, significantly longer, probably in the 5 to 10 range, with about one to three scenes per chapter.

Also check to see if your scene is escalating, with a couple worsenings of the situation in each segment (sometimes called a beat). Scenes have a beginning, middle and end, just like the overall story, and are a sort of microcosm of story. If a novel-length story = the record of a conflict, and an act is a unit of that conflict from inciting event to turning point, then within the act are scenes, which, again, are units of conflict, and the scenes break down into smaller and smaller units of conflict, from beats (a few exchanges between protagonist and antagonist) to individual action-reaction units.

See if your scenes escalate through a few beats. For instance, the pov character starts out wanting to drive to the specialty plant store, and the antagonist for that scene tries to convince her to go to the mega-home-store instead, and then the pov character insists on her destination and gets the car keys to leave without the antagonist (thereby escalating from words to action, from a plan to acting on that plan), and then the antagonist tries to grab her keys back, so the pov character runs outside and jumps into the car (escalating the conflict further), and the antagonist throws himself on the hood of the car. The beats, in that case, are: 1) discussion, 2)getting the keys, 3)getting into the car itself. A scene without beats would be: Protagonist wants to go to the nursery, and the antagonist suggests an alternative, but she insists she's going anyway. End of scene. Nothing has changed, nothing intensifies; it's a plateau. Same for repeating the same thing (a/k/a bickering): She wants to go, he says no, she wants to go anyway, he says no again, she gives another reason for going, etc. (Unless the reasons become more desperate in some way, so first it's that she'd kinda' like to go, and in the end, she's desperate to go and is demanding or using emotional blackmail or something, where in the beginning she was just hinting. )

Anyway, I got sidetracked here. But first check to see if your role models have longer scenes than yours, and if so, see if you can identify the escalating beats in their scenes, and then see how your own scenes can escalate that way, and in the course of escalating, you'll probably find that your scenes are getting longer and, as a side benefit that matters much more than word count, more tension-filled.

JD

Use Her Name said:

The point is that novels generally do not have 130-150 chapters.

Click to expand...

Have you read the Maximum ride series by James Patterson? I couldn't even get through the entire thing because he made every chapter 2 pages for NO REASON, LOL. It would be like this:

I looked over and saw Jane. "Hi."

New Chapter:

"Hello," said Jane.

It was so weird!

Anyway, I like your idea of having the month work as like "Part 1", only "Part February", and then having all the scenes fill up each section. It sounds like it would have a good flow.

I'm a bit confused by these two statements:

Use Her Name said:

I also am not so sure of what to do if a scene suddenly totally changes location or setting.

Click to expand...

and

But chapters are usually "in the same place," not all over the map.

Click to expand...

I might be wrong here, but I'd say that if a scene suddenly changed setting, it would be a new scene? And that it's much more common to have chapters with the action taking place at several settings than a scene doing the same? And thus, it shoudn't really be a problem having a chapter with several scenes at various settings, as long as they somewhat connect in a way?