Which Comes First? The Agent or the Book?

SherryTex · May 31, 2008

Okay, I've been slogging away, a rank amature compared to most of you folks, only one book that is in progress, but I heard in another writer's group you should write the pitch, synopsis, character sketch of the main people and submit that with 3 chapters or so to 50 agents rather than go about the labor of writing a whole book and then finding it unsellable.

As I read about people here finding agents, I pause to wonder if I've been spinning my wheels or if I should just keep at it and let the agent part be the next course after Helen is finished. --thoughts?

Sage · May 31, 2008

This sounds like very bad advice. You should have the book completely written and polished before you start querying. What do you do if you send out the queries and one or more agents request a full? Or you get rejections from the first 50 agents, but agent 51 was going to request (without the novel, you're probably giving up on that agent 50)? Or your pitch is the problem, not the novel?

Even if you do write a novel that's unsaleable, the experience of writing it will help you out on the next one. Keep slogging away

Kalyke · May 31, 2008

I think the only people who can just do a pitch are tried and true moneymakers. I've also seen some non-fiction threads saying that non-fiction is done a bit differently than fiction books.

Linda Adams · May 31, 2008

If you're writing a novel, it needs to be finished. Agents won't touch it unless it's completed because there's just too much of a likelihood of the person not finishing the book.

BlueLucario · May 31, 2008

Sage said:
This sounds like very bad advice. You should have the book completely written and polished before you start querying. What do you do if you send out the queries and one or more agents request a full? Or you get rejections from the first 50 agents, but agent 51 was going to request (without the novel, you're probably giving up on that agent 50)? Or your pitch is the problem, not the novel?

Even if you do write a novel that's unsaleable, the experience of writing it will help you out on the next one. Keep slogging away

Yeah, it has to be finished. What if they want it right away, and you don't have it finished yet?
I agree. And as for amateurs, according to what I've read, if you just tell the agent right away that you're a first timer, then they'll proably go easier on you.

I read that in one of Evanovich's books. I could be wrong though.

Momento Mori · May 31, 2008

SherryTex:
I heard in another writer's group you should write the pitch, synopsis, character sketch of the main people and submit that with 3 chapters or so to 50 agents rather than go about the labor of writing a whole book and then finding it unsellable.

I think that's terrible advice from that writer's group. In the first place, you should always follow an agent's submission guidelines - most of the ones I've seen look for the query letter and opening 3 chapters/first 50 pages, not the additional information the group is talking about. If you're sending a query to 50 agents at a time, you're not giving yourself the opportunity to impvoe on the query letter/opening chapters if people are turning you down.

Then there's the fact that what happens if an agent asks for a full off what you've sent him/her and you have to go back and say you don't have it finished yet? At best, you look like an amateur who is wasting their time.

I do know of a couple of authors who got agents and publishing deals when their manuscript wasn't finished - Monica Ali, who wrote Brick Lane, is one such example, but she said herself she was very lucky that she knew someone at an agency who took a look at what she was writing and agreed to help her develop it. It's definitely an exception rather than a rule though.

MM

Marian Perera · May 31, 2008

SherryTex said:
I heard in another writer's group you should write the pitch, synopsis, character sketch of the main people and submit that with 3 chapters or so to 50 agents rather than go about the labor of writing a whole book and then finding it unsellable.

IMO, this sounds like advice geared towards people who are more concerned with getting their work published than with getting their work done (and getting it as good as possible).

So you write a book and find it unsellable. Big deal. I don't think anyone's first experiment in graduate school was published in a peer-reviewed journal. Nancy Kerrigan probably fell on her butt the first time she put on a pair of skates and tried to move on the rink. Few people sell the first book they've ever written, but if they never complete a book because of this, they'll never improve their skills to the point where they get representation and publication.

For me, the joy is in writing. Publication is great, of course. But the writing is what I love. Even if I was told that I would never be published, I would still continue to write.

williemeikle · May 31, 2008

For me, the joy is in writing. Publication is great, of course. But the writing is what I love. Even if I was told that I would never be published, I would still continue to write.

Amen to that sister

SherryTex · May 31, 2008

I thought it sounded wrong and I was surprised by the information but since I don't have an agent, and didn't think I was at that point yet, I thought it best to check with the tried and true sages of this board. I love my book and I'm happy with what I'm writing but when I read that as a suggestion, I felt a bit startled like maybe I was doing this backwards, so thanks for the info and I'll keep slogging. Helen will get published, but she, like the actual Trojan War, will take time. --Sherry

Straka · May 31, 2008

Sage said:
This sounds like very bad advice.

Agreed. Always have a completed manuscript when approaching an Agent if it's fiction. You could sell a non-fiction book with just a outline and such.

Plus the fun part about writing, is writing. Why wouldn't you want to write the book itself? I've written five so far and none of them are market ready. But they are getting there.

Mumut · May 31, 2008

I agree too. If you don't finish your book, how can you know it works. Also, you might want to tweek the start because you find you need to do things to the end you couldn't have known about until you were there.

Also, what if you decide not to bother with an agent?

maestrowork · May 31, 2008

It's very rare that you can sell a manuscript these days (fiction anyway -- non-fiction is different) without actually having finished it first. Most agents will want to see the whole thing. It's not to say it's impossible -- but the synopsis + 3 must be super brilliant for the agent to represent it without reading the rest.

Now if the agent asks to read the full, what would you do? That's the problem. Are you going to tell the agent to call back 3 months later? And can you finish and polish the whole thing in 3 months?

It's just bad advice. Are the people in the writing group published? If not, it's just bogus advice. If they're, then it's just bad advice.

(as I said, non-fiction is different. It's no unusual to get a contract by proposal only with non-fiction)

VGrossack · Jun 1, 2008

For the first book, you need to be completely finished. For a later book, when you've got a track record and the agents and the publishers have confidence in you, it's a different matter.

WordlyVision · Jun 1, 2008

There are little exceptions to the rule. Bottom line: You'll have to finish it anyway... just with the latter scenario of contacting an agent first and getting a request for a partial or full, you'll have serious motivation and not to mention stress to "finish" something that should really have been finished first in the first place. Also, contacting an agent first and getting requests before your book is done doesn't exactly create the best of impressions to an agent.

Marian Perera · Jun 1, 2008

Here is a thread started by someone who sent out queries when the manuscript "wasn't polished or at least even a solid first draft" (his words).

He got a full request and realized the manuscript couldn't be sent out as it was. The agent phoned, apparently more than once, but he avoided the calls (and deleted his posts in the thread, though people quoted most of them). No idea how it all worked out eventually.

Richard White · Jun 1, 2008

SherryTex said:
I thought it sounded wrong and I was surprised by the information but since I don't have an agent, and didn't think I was at that point yet, I thought it best to check with the tried and true sages of this board. I love my book and I'm happy with what I'm writing but when I read that as a suggestion, I felt a bit startled like maybe I was doing this backwards, so thanks for the info and I'll keep slogging. Helen will get published, but she, like the actual Trojan War, will take time. --Sherry

Sherry,

I am published, (1 novel, 1 novella, 3 short stories), but all of my work has been media tie-in related. On the advice of three different agents, I'm finishing and polishing an original novel before I seek representation.

All three of them said, I "could" submit a pitch and synopsis because I have a track record, but they'd be more comfortable knowing I had the book done because it's my first "original" in my own world. They admit the fact that I've proven to four different editors that I can produce and produce on a deadline is a good thing to have, but that doesn't mean I can write stuff without having a framework around me.

So, yeah, the whole process, finish book, finish synopsis, finish query letter is the preferred way to go.

cethklein · Jun 1, 2008

EVERY published author and agent I have ever asked this question of has said the same thing:

"Never submit until the book is done."

Maybe once you're on the second book it could be ok but every person I've spoken to has said you ALWAYS have a complete work ready to go when you send out queries. A writer on here claimed she went from query o representation in six hours. This could not have happened if the book wasn't done and ready to go I wouldn't think.Agents are bus people, they don't have time to wait for an author to finish a book. That's the impression I've gotten from them anyway.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 2, 2008

Write the book first. Really. All the way through beta-readers and final polish. And start the next book too. Only then should you start looking for an agent.

After you have that first book out and selling, after you have the agent, can your start going to contract on three-and-an-outline. Right now no one knows if you can even finish a book.

Sheryl Nantus · Jun 2, 2008

find a new writers' group.

Phaeal · Jun 2, 2008

Why should an agent take on a client who hasn't proven he or she can finish a book? And edit it. And re-edit it. And polish it into a shining literary gem.

The exceptions have been noted:

Nonfiction, which is queried via proposals.
You're an established novelist already.
You have an in with a particular agent.

To which I'd add:

You're a celebrity in some other field, hence you'd bring strong name recognition to a project.

bartender · Jun 2, 2008

I've been searching through a lot of the posts on this site looking for an answer to a question I have about queries but can't find it anywhere. I don't understand why, if I already have a completed fiction manuscript, I should submit a query and sample chapters. Why not just send in the full manuscript so the agent will be able to read the entire work immediately after being spellbound by the opening chapters rather than having them sleep on it, think it over, and ask some other author for their full? The only downside I can see to that is the cost of postage and the aggravation of collating. Is there someting I'm missing? Is that a breach of etiquette punishable by blacklisting? I know there's probably a simple answer to this but if anyone could provide me with it or a link to a thread that discusses this, I would greatly appreciate it.

writermom · Jun 2, 2008

bartender said:
I've been searching through a lot of the posts on this site looking for an answer to a question I have about queries but can't find it anywhere. I don't understand why, if I already have a completed fiction manuscript, I should submit a query and sample chapters. Why not just send in the full manuscript so the agent will be able to read the entire work immediately after being spellbound by the opening chapters rather than having them sleep on it, think it over, and ask some other author for their full? The only downside I can see to that is the cost of postage and the aggravation of collating. Is there someting I'm missing? Is that a breach of etiquette punishable by blacklisting? I know there's probably a simple answer to this but if anyone could provide me with it or a link to a thread that discusses this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes, you're missing the fact that you will annoy the agent and get an auto no. Don't do this.

kristie911 · Jun 2, 2008

Writermom is right. You need to follow an agents submission guidelines. Send them only what they ask for or you're only going to tick them off. And ticking off an agent will get you a no.

funidream · Jun 2, 2008

bartender said:
I've been searching through a lot of the posts on this site looking for an answer to a question I have about queries but can't find it anywhere. I don't understand why, if I already have a completed fiction manuscript, I should submit a query and sample chapters. Why not just send in the full manuscript so the agent will be able to read the entire work immediately after being spellbound by the opening chapters rather than having them sleep on it, think it over, and ask some other author for their full? The only downside I can see to that is the cost of postage and the aggravation of collating. Is there someting I'm missing? Is that a breach of etiquette punishable by blacklisting? I know there's probably a simple answer to this but if anyone could provide me with it or a link to a thread that discusses this, I would greatly appreciate it.

My agent receives between 300 to 600 queries per week - if those were full manuscripts, she would be inundated with material, 99% of which she would have no interest in. Plus it used to cost me $15 to send a manuscript first class (that includes postage, the cost of printing and a box) - sending fulls to agents who might not be interested for a variety of reasons makes no sense.

funidream · Jun 2, 2008

SherryTex said:
Okay, I've been slogging away, a rank amature compared to most of you folks, only one book that is in progress, but I heard in another writer's group you should write the pitch, synopsis, character sketch of the main people and submit that with 3 chapters or so to 50 agents rather than go about the labor of writing a whole book and then finding it unsellable.

As I read about people here finding agents, I pause to wonder if I've been spinning my wheels or if I should just keep at it and let the agent part be the next course after Helen is finished. --thoughts?

I was lucky in my deal. Even though I had no publishing credits, my agent got a 2-book - the second book sold on the basis of a synopsis. I was surprised, but I've learned it is not uncommon - but remember that the offer for number two was based on the quality of number 1 - a complete, finished work. An unpublished author can't get anywhere without a complete manuscript.

Which Comes First? The Agent or the Book?

Working on 2nd WIP

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Soldier, Storyteller

Blood Elves FTW

Tired and Disillusioned

starting over

The force is strong in this one.

Working on 2nd WIP

Bored Fanatic

Well begun is half done...

Fear the Death Ray

bored fan with a tic

The Ideas keep coming...

starting over

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler

Your Genial Uncle

Holding out for a Superhero...

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

In the never-ending edit cycle

Happy to be here