Overuse of "I" in First Person

[Steve 211]

James - in another post you gave good tips on the overuse of "that" and "got," and then wrote:


In first person fiction, "I" is a horribly overused word, and the primary reason editors warn against newbies writing in first person. Use "I" too many times, and first person becomes unreadable. I can almost always look at the number of "I's" in a story and tell you whether or not it will be rejected on this basis alone.



Could you give an example of this? Thanks.

[Zane Curtis]

It would be intrusive, I guess, if you started sentences over and over with I. "I did this. I did that. I didn't like it much. I wheezed. I cringed. I cried. I wished myself dead. I wanted to gouge out my eyes after reading so much dreadful, mechanically repetitive prose..."

[SRHowen]

I went to the store and I bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and I had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then I dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and I bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and I still love her like I did then.

OK, extream but I have seen stuff written with this many I's. UGH Same as any other overused word, if it can be worded without the I then do it.

Shawn

[Zane Curtis]

I went to the store and I bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and I had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then I dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and I bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and I still love her like I did then.

You know, you could turn that exact passage into a third person POV by replacing the I with the character's name, and it would still be awful for exactly the same reason. It's not a problem exclusive to first person writing, although third person gives you extra pronouns to avoid the problem.

The best solution all round would be to vary the length and complexity of sentences -- short sentences next to long sentences, complex next to compound and simple sentences -- anything to avoid the I... I... I... or the Fred... Fred... Fred...

[Thekherham]

I went to the store and I bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and I had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then I dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and I bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and I still love her like I did then.

OK, extream but I have seen stuff written with this many I's. UGH Same as any other overused word, if it can be worded without the I then do it.

Shawn

Well now, if you write a novel in the first person (and there are authors that do) the use of the word 'I' is inevitable. So I guess the question is: How do you keep those 'I's to a reasonably acceptable level.
In the above example that Shawn gave, I (or should I say One) could say:

I went to the store and bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and still love her like I did then

O.k., I reduced Shawn's 13 I's to 8. I don't know how much of an improvement that is.

Here are the first few paragraphs of a novel I'm working on that is written in first character.
We've been through this before, haven't we? All this fuss and bother just because it's my birthday. Ma knows I hate birthday parties, but she has to make a big deal out of everything. Oh, I know what she'll say: she'll tell me today is my first real birthday in four years and I shouldn't spoil her plans.

Not that I really want to. It's just that today is a bad day for me to be having a party on account of what happened on Friday between me and Ned Kastner. Boy oh boy, that was one hell of a fight we got into, with me, naturally, getting the worst of it.

I stand naked in front of the mirror, looking at my bruised face. The swelling around my left eye has gone down a bit, but it's still noticeable enough for Pa to ask me questions to which he already knows the answers. Damn it, I hate it when he does that. He knows very well it was Ned Kastner; practically everybody in Sunriver and Arrowhead knows Ned and I are fighting because of that damn ***** Cynthia Sherman.


There are 7 I's in these three paragraphs. Of course if your novel has about 410,000 words, there will be a lot more I's.

[Ella]

I went to the store and bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and still love her like I did then

O.k., I reduced Shawn's 13 I's to 8. I don't know how much of an improvement that is.

I went to the store and bought some eggs for breakfast. I paid with a twenty then dropped the change in the charity jar. I've always like to do that since my brother survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. We married just after highschool and still love each other like back then.

Four I's. Brutally ugly piece, but we get the idea.

[reph]

I went to the store and I bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and I had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then I dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and I bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and I still love her like I did then.
At the store, I bought some eggs to make breakfast. The change that the cashier gave me from a twenty went into the charity jar [hey, Shawn, that's a lot of change; how many dozen eggs do you buy for one breakfast, anyway?]. I always like to do that, since my brother survived a big disaster.

On the way home, I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. We married just after high school, and I still love her as much as then.

That brings the "I" count down to four.

Who's next?

[Patricia]

At the store, I bought some eggs to make breakfast. The change that the cashier gave me from a twenty went into the charity jar [hey, Shawn, that's a lot of change; how many dozen eggs do you buy for one breakfast, anyway?]. I always like to do that, since my brother survived a big disaster.

On the way home, I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. We married just after high school, and I still love her as much as then.

That brings the "I" count down to four.

Who's next?

At the store, while buying eggs to make breakfast -- the change that the cashier gave me from a twenty went into the charity jar. Doing so, gave me pleasure, because my brother survived a big disaster.

On the way home, I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. We married just after high school, and I still love her as much as then.

That brings the "I" count down to two.

Who's next?

[Anatole Ghio]

I went to the store and bought some eggs so I could make breakfast. I paid with a twenty and had to wait for the cashier to give me my change, then dropped the change in the charity jar. I always like to do that since I have a brother who survived a big disaster.

On the way home I stopped by the flower shop and bought some roses for my wife. I married her just after highschool and still love her like I did then





I went to the store and bought some eggs for breakfast. A twenty went to the cashier and the change went to the charity jar. Giving feels good -- and my brother who survived a disaster would agree.

A quick stop at the flower shop before going home, and a quick purchase of roses for the wife. Married since just after high school, and the love is still as strong.

[TashaGoddard]

We needed eggs for breakfast. The coins the cashier handed over went straight into the charity box. Since my brother lived through the earthquake, donating to charity has become a habit.

Passing the flower shop, during the leisurely stroll home, the fresh sweet smell of the roses wafted my way. Red roses like those given to Sally when we met all those years ago. My love for her had only strengthened during our life together. Would she love this dozen as much or more than the earlier ones?

Not a single 'I'.

[reph]

Would she love this dozen as much or more than the earlier ones?
The dozen eggs or the dozen roses?

For the bonus round, who can reduce the I's to a negative number?

[TashaGoddard]

The dozen eggs or the dozen roses?

Hee. Well, the eggs of course! There's so much more you can do with them. Roses just stand there and die.

[Anatole Ghio]

I'll gladly reduce the eggs to a negative number! http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

[veinglory]

Excessive I's come from not really taking on the character's point of view. The character see 'from' I, not 'at' I.

[Zolah]

I don't think that overuse of 'I' in first person writing is a particular hazard for a good writer, anymore than overuse of the protagonist's name is a hazard in third person. If a writer is unable to tell that their writing is repetitive and dull in the first person, they're likely going to have the same problems in writing a third person narrative.

The last thing we should be doing is making people afraid to use 'I' in first person, since the ability to do so is one of the strengths of a first person narrative. Take the sample below. 'I' is used four times, and each time it grounds the story that is being told, reminding us that this is something 'real', something deeply important to the narrator:

My first memory is of the smell of sun-warmed earth. I must have been very small – perhaps only two or three years old. I remember my mother’s hands, stubby-fingered and callused, covered with soil as she gently eased a plant from the ground. She talked quietly to me as she worked, explaining that the plant lived by spreading roots through the earth, taking moisture and nourishment from the land, and using the warmth of the sun to grow strong.

She told me the name of the herb she tended – Lady’s Hook – and its uses in cooking and medicine, and described how it might be dried or steeped in oil. And then, when the plant had been carefully potted, she cupped a handful of the rich dark soil, and showed me its power.

Before my wondering eyes, each tiny particle sprung to life, shining and beautiful, awash with eddying power. Astonished, I lifted my eyes to look at my mother’s garden. I could see the same beauty in the and in the trees that ringed us. The clouds above us were alive too – the current of life even swirled in the air.


See? Without 'I' much of the poignancy and intensity of the piece would be lost and it would become rather pointless.

[Steve 211]

Thanks to all for the input! Can't think of how to get that negative I, except maybe "I wasn't in the store. I wasn't there at all."

Anyway, I popped open King's The Body (Stand By Me), and found this scene:

I asked for three pounds of hamburger and got some hamburger rolls, four bottles of Coke and a two-cent churchkey to open them with. The owner....stood right there as I shopped, making sure I didn't try to hawk anything.

So yeah, I guess one shouldn't sweat it too much (and great example, by the way, Zolah), but just go with what sounds best and doesn't grate on people's nerves.

[Thekherham]

I went to the store and bought some eggs for breakfast. A twenty went to the cashier and the change went to the charity jar. Giving feels good -- and my brother who survived a disaster would agree.

A quick stop at the flower shop before going home, and a quick purchase of roses for the wife. Married since just after high school, and the love is still as strong.


But you wouldn't write an entire story... or novel that way, Anatole.

The use of 'I' in a first person story is inevitable, it's just a matter of how much you use it.

[Note On]

But you wouldn't write an entire story... or novel that way

Why not?

[SRHowen]

I don't think no use of I in a first person is what anyone wants, in my example I went overboard for the very reason to show how some new writers do first person.

I write first person. My entry in the AW idol was in first person, the novel my agent is shopping is in first person--and my own agent has said he does not care for first person novels from new novelists as it can be a crutch.

It can be done well. As with any other POV you want to make the reader feel they are experiancing the story rather than looking in from the outside.

I post a chunk of my stuff here, but you can go see it at the AW idol thread I am the first entry.

And I just realized I have to go out the door to work right n . . . .

[zizban]

I think anything can be over used.

[Zolah]

Thank you, Steve. This is a great thread, by the way. Good writing!

[maestrowork]

Yes, yes. Overusing "I" is a big problem. But try not to try TOO hard to get rid of it either. "I" can be very powerful, if you write it well.

[Jamesaritchie]

These examples are as good or better than I could do.

The point isn't to get rid of "I" in first person, but not to overdue it. There's no need for an "I" in every sentence, but this is what many first time writers do. But the real problem with using "I" too often is that a new writer who does this often forgets the external part of the story.

For whatever reason, new writers who try first person do overuse "I" more than new writers who try third person overuse "he" or "she." But the thing is this: even when new writers overuse "he" and "she," they are probably still externalizing much of the story. New writers who overuse "I" not only read poorly, they tend to internalize everything.

New third person writers may head-hop, or suddenly switch to omniscient viewpoint because they don't know how to show what other characters are thinking or feeling without doing this, but at least they are making an effort to externalize. New first person writers nearly always internalize far too much because they have no idea how to tell the story that's outside the protagonist.

This is usually why "I" is so overused. The writer stays inside the first person narrator, so everything is "I," everything is internal.

The overuse of "I" is almost always just a symptom of the real problem. Any good editor can eliminate a great many "I's" without too much trouble, but this doesn't solve the real problem, which is over-internalization. Line editing takes a lot of time, and even when you finish it, there's a good chance that what you have left is still mostly internal.

What the story means to the protagonist, how it affects him, is internal, but the story itself is external. How events affect the protagonist is internal, but the events themselves are external.

But it's really where other characters are concerned that this becomes a huge problem. How the protagonist feels about other characters is internal, how the things they do affect him is also internal, but the characters have lives and feelings and hopes and beliefs that are all external to the protagonist. There's a whole world filled with people and events that are external to the protagonist.

New first person writers who overuse "I" tend to leave most or all of this external world out. In the hands of a new writer, leaving out the external is a byproduct of overusing "I." When a new first person writer learns to automatically look outside the protagonist, to use "a," "the," "it," "they," "she," "he," "his," "hers," etc., without thinking about it, odds are he will also start getting the external into the story.

There are exceptions to everything, but most good fiction is a balance of the internal and the external. Even dramatic or objective viewpoint, which is wholly external, still tries to show the internal through external events and reactions.

Objective viewpoint is, in fact, a great viewpoint for first person writers to learn. It teaches you how to show the internal through action and reaction, and all without the need of going into another character's head. Inability to do this is a common failing with both new first and third person writers. New first person writers just avoid showing the internal lives of others, and new third person writers tend to head-hop or suddenly jump into omniscient viewpoint to get the job done. Dramatic or objective viewpoint teaches that neither is necessary.

[Rose]

The overuse of "I" is almost always just a symptom of the real problem. Any good editor can eliminate a great many "I's" without too much trouble, but this doesn't solve the real problem, which is over-internalization.
Very enlightening, Jamesaritchie. Thanks!

I'm intrigued by your comment that "fixing" the overuse of "I" does not solve the real problem of over-internalization. Can you expound some on over-internalization?

You see, several books I've read suggest replacing a sentence such as "I looked at the clock" with "My eyes darted to the clock." This is only one sentence with no context, but I'm wondering if you can use it or something like it to explain the concepts of over-internalization/externalization a little more. In particular, what is it that I am truly trying to fix when I pull up one of my essays and am accosted by too many "I"s?

[maestrowork]

To me... why do we have to write "I looked at the clock" or "my eyes darted at the clock?" In first person, everything is observed/thought by the narrator, so just say: "The clock on the wall looked stupid. It was stuck at four-thirty."

Same with sentences such as "I heard a noise" or "I saw her looking at me." How about simply "a noise startled me" or "she looked at me"?

Over-internalization. That's a tough one. Some people think a first person book must include tons and tons of reflection, internal thoughts and introspection. But in novel, that goes against "show, don't tell." There needs to be a balance.

[Zane Curtis]

I'm intrigued by your comment that "fixing" the overuse of "I" does not solve the real problem of over-internalization. Can you expound some on over-internalization?

It's like when you're at a party and get stuck talking to someone whose favourite topic of conversation is himself. It's all I this and I that and I everything else. So what about you? Oh, me too... me, me, me, me. In the end, when you've lost about a dozen IQ points just listening to the guy, you start to wonder whether you should say, "You sir are a first grade bore." Because after all, the resulting sh*t storm would be more amusing than the conversation.

Interesting people -- people you might actually want to listen to -- tone down the self-aggrandizing and allow the rest of the world into their conversation. They talk about other people, and the rest of the world beyond themselves: things that actually stand a ghost of a chance at being personally interesting to you. They are considerate to their audience.

The thing is, you want to cast an interesting conversationalist as your first person narrator, rather than a bore.

[katiemac]

Just wanted to thank everybody who's posted in this thread. It will be a real help come editing time, even though I'm not writing first person.

[Jamesaritchie]

Very enlightening, Jamesaritchie. Thanks!

I'm intrigued by your comment that "fixing" the overuse of "I" does not solve the real problem of over-internalization. Can you expound some on over-internalization?

You see, several books I've read suggest replacing a sentence such as "I looked at the clock" with "My eyes darted to the clock." This is only one sentence with no context, but I'm wondering if you can use it or something like it to explain the concepts of over-internalization/externalization a little more. In particular, what is it that I am truly trying to fix when I pull up one of my essays and am accosted by too many "I"s?

Brrr. I find this subject much easier to understand than to write about, but I'll try.

You should try to change sentences to get rid of unnecessary "I's," but what you should really be looking for is to make sure your haven't neglected the external. To simplify it, the external is usually the same sort of description you find in third person fiction. Good third person writers don't overdo description, but they do paint pictures of the world outside the viewpoint character, and they do so without telling the reader what the POV character thinks and feels about everything that is described.

Same with characters. The world around a first person protagonist is filled with people. The writing should acknowledge this, and should do so without telling us how he feels about all of them.

New first person writers often get so wrapped up in the internal world of teh protagonist that they fail to show the reader enough of the world around the protagonist, and what they do show is tightly filtered through the protagonist, meaning everythng that is shown, scenery or people, gets internalized.

With new writers, the overuse of "I" can be a symmptom of this. When this is the case, an editor can't just edit out the "I's" and be left with a good story.

The external is what the story means to the other characters, how it affects other characters. The external means the outide world has been included. It means things are happening to other people that may not affect you drectly, but that still take place within your sphere of living, so you acknowledge them. You allow other characters to have lives outside your internal little world.

And simple acknowledgement means you don't filter all these outside events through the internal thoughts of the protagonist. These are things that just are. They're things he'll see and hear, but not things he will really think about at all.

Every minute we live, a whole world is living around us. Good writng shows us enough of this world to make the setting and the story believable. Show, not internalize. We don't internalize everything around us.

The description part just means showing the neighbor sitting on the front porch with a cup of coffee, or the child paying with a ball, or the dark clouds rolling in from teh west. Showing them without giving the protagonist's thoughts on them. They're just observations, and not subjects for reflection.

The characterizaion part really just means understanding that the the world doesn't revolve around the protagonist. Everyone he comes in contact with has a story, has problems, has faults and virtues. His receptionist may be in the story to greet clients, but if the story is going to have verisimilitude, she needs to be a real person, even if she is a real person we won't come to know as well as we know the protagonist. She may have a sick child, she may have diabetes, she may have a boyfriend who beats her. She may eat cheery pies at her desk, or knit when no clients are aorund. Let the reader see her eating the pie. "As always, Della was eating her luch at her desk, and as always, it was a cherry pie."

But don't tell us the protagonist's thoughts on cherry pies. Whocares whether or not he likes them, whether or not he thinks eating them at her desk is a sign of laziness, or means she probably has an eating disorder.

The protagonist will be close enough to her to see some of these things, to know some of these things, and to suspect others. They don't have to become a story in themselves, but they do help with adding verisimilitude, and greatly help in taking the protagonist outside himself.

It's like what I said in a thread about subplots. I think Victoria feels much the same, in that you don't have to plan and add subplots. Real characters already have subplots because they have lives.

This doesn't mean you have to let every character become a subplot, but you sometimes do. Just show enough of most characters to make their external world real, but maybe the receptionist is a minor subplot. Maybe the protagonist thinks she's irreplaceable, so on top of having a mystery to solve, on top of having people trying to kill him, he knows he's going to have to do something about her abusive boyfriend, who just happens to be a cop or a mobster.

Description again. I think many forget that the protaginist in a first person novel is telling the reader a story. Imagine you're sitting across the kitchen table from him, cup of coffee in hand, and he's telling you this story. If he's a good storyteller, he'll tell the story just like the narrator in a third person story. He'll paint the same narrative pictures in the same way, he'll describe the characters in the story the same way, he'll give you all the details in the same way.

The only difference is that in this story, he's the central character. But first and foremost, he's the narrator, and his job is to narrate a story to you, just as if someone else was the central character.

First person fiction needs some "I's" in in. Usually quite a few of them, but it also needs a fair amount of decription and characterization that takes place outside of "I." New writers often get so wrapped up in the world of the internal that they forget this.

And even description that is important to the protagonist doesn't always have to be filtered trhough "I."

From King's Bag of Bones.

"Buddy Jellison was just the same, all right--same dirty cooks' whites and splotchy white apron, same black hair under a paper cap stained with either blood or strawberry juice. Even, from the look, the same oatmeal-cookie crumbs caught in his ragged mustache. He was maybe fifty-five and maybe seventy, which in some genetically favored men seems to be still within the farthest borders of middle age. He was huge and shambly, probably six-four, three hundred pounds--and just as full of grace, wit, and joie de vivre as he had been four years before. "

This is important, personal description because it's a character the protagonist has seen before. But it could have been written exactly teh same way had it been in a third person novel.


You can do exactly the same thing in describing the weather, a mountain meadow covered with flowers, a dingy house, or just the general hubbub of Times Square.

This is really pretty simple stuff, it's just stuff many who try their hand at first person forget, and it's one of the reasons editors are so leary of first person from new writers.

[Rose]

I was nervous about venturing into the Writing Novels forum, but it's great over here. Thanks for all the excellent advice and explication!

[HConn]

Something else to keep in mind:

With third-person, the reader is the POV character's invisible buddy. You experience the story the way a ghost would, floating nearby, observing the action and knowing the thoughts of some of the characters.

With first-person, the reader is not invisible. They're sharing a table at a coffee shop with someone, and that someone is telling them a story.

If that story is all me me me I I I, it's going to get dull pretty quick. No one wants to hang out with a person who is only going to talk about themselves.

As a writer of a first-person story, you need to be aware of the risks of boring the pants off our readers.

[reph]

You see, several books I've read suggest replacing a sentence such as "I looked at the clock" with "My eyes darted to the clock."
Where are you getting these books? Nobody says "My eyes darted to the clock" when recounting an incident to a friend. This is the point Maestro made earlier. People simply say "It was 10:30."

"My eyes darted" is wrong in a story because it doesn't report the character's world the way the character experiences it.

Stay away from that eye stuff: it gets ridiculous too easily. "My eyes darted to the clock. Then they wandered to the coffeepot. Finally they rested on the mantel with last year's Christmas cards." Eyeballs with little feet?

Disclaimer: I am not a novelist.

[wurdwise]

LOL. :hooray: I see dancing eyeballs.

[Rose]

Where are you getting these books? Nobody says "My eyes darted to the clock" when recounting an incident to a friend.
Oh geez, I read ALL the books about writing and getting published! I'll have to dig through my stash to determine where this particular gem came from...

[maestrowork]

I still remember Stephen King's infamous line: "I rolled my eyes toward the door..." Good thing he writes horror.

[Jamesaritchie]

Where are you getting these books? Nobody says "My eyes darted to the clock" when recounting an incident to a friend. This is the point Maestro made earlier. People simply say "It was 10:30."

"My eyes darted" is wrong in a story because it doesn't report the character's world the way the character experiences it.

Stay away from that eye stuff: it gets ridiculous too easily. "My eyes darted to the clock. Then they wandered to the coffeepot. Finally they rested on the mantel with last year's Christmas cards." Eyeballs with little feet?

Disclaimer: I am not a novelist.

Yes, you really need to watch the body parts. A character might say, "I glanced at the clock," or "I looked at the clock." Nothing wrong with this at all.

"I turned on my heel" is another. Where was the switch?

It should also be noted that these read just as poorly in third person as in first person.

But most of us make these mistakes on occasion. We usually catch them before the story is pubished, but now and then one sneaks through.

[Steve 211]

Great tip there, Maestro, on cutting out "I saw." I used to get stuck doing that long ago, and then, in the margins of books, I started writing, "No 'Saw,'" meaning check out how this author just skipped all that and got right to the point: "I sat down at the table with my morning coffee. Two men were coming down the street with shotguns. I was out the back door and gone."

There's no "I looked out the window and saw two men" or "I got up and ran across the room to the back door" or "My eyes darted out the back door before me." In other words, I finally got out of doing an official report, all stiff and proper, and began to tell the story like I would to a friend in a bar.

And James - thanks for the in-depth posts. How's this for a summary...

First Person Internalized

I was out on the raft with Huck, and I was getting sunburned something awful. On top of it all, I had a headache, and a bunch of stupid jays making a racket didn’t help any.

I looked at Huck and said, "We should get an outboard for this thing."

"What for?"

I hate it when he does that. He makes me think I’m stupid.

So I let him have it. I said, "’Cause I’m getting burned, is why."


First Person Externalized

Huck and I were out on the raft, drifting along and getting burned by the sun. Jays made a racket in the brush along the shore, and the smell of a campfire lingered in the morning air.

"Huck," I said, "we should get an outboard for this thing."

He scratched his nose and shrugged. "What for?"

"’Cause I’m getting burned, is why."


It fits your description of Objective Viewpoint in that you can switch it to third person by simply replacing "I" with a viewpoint character's name:

Huck and Jim were out on the raft, drifting along and getting burned by the sun. Jays made a racket in the brush along the shore, and the smell of a campfire lingered in the morning air.

"Huck," Jim said, "we should get an outboard for this thing."

Huck scratched his nose and shrugged. "What for?"

"’Cause if we don’t, Tom Sawyer’s gonna catch up to us and ruin the whole dang book."

[maestrowork]

I think Steve's summary of internalized vs. externalized is a very good one. It also ties very well with show vs. tell. You really want to pull the readers into the story, let them experience it with you, and not give them a report through filtering.

[Jamesaritchie]

Great tip there, Maestro, on cutting out "I saw." I used to get stuck doing that long ago, and then, in the margins of books, I started writing, "No 'Saw,'" meaning check out how this author just skipped all that and got right to the point: "I sat down at the table with my morning coffee. Two men were coming down the street with shotguns. I was out the back door and gone."

There's no "I looked out the window and saw two men" or "I got up and ran across the room to the back door" or "My eyes darted out the back door before me." In other words, I finally got out of doing an official report, all stiff and proper, and began to tell the story like I would to a friend in a bar.

And James - thanks for the in-depth posts. How's this for a summary...

First Person Internalized

I was out on the raft with Huck, and I was getting sunburned something awful. On top of it all, I had a headache, and a bunch of stupid jays making a racket didn’t help any.

I looked at Huck and said, "We should get an outboard for this thing."

"What for?"

I hate it when he does that. He makes me think I’m stupid.

So I let him have it. I said, "’Cause I’m getting burned, is why."


First Person Externalized

Huck and I were out on the raft, drifting along and getting burned by the sun. Jays made a racket in the brush along the shore, and the smell of a campfire lingered in the morning air.

"Huck," I said, "we should get an outboard for this thing."

He scratched his nose and shrugged. "What for?"

"’Cause I’m getting burned, is why."


It fits your description of Objective Viewpoint in that you can switch it to third person by simply replacing "I" with a viewpoint character's name:

Huck and Jim were out on the raft, drifting along and getting burned by the sun. Jays made a racket in the brush along the shore, and the smell of a campfire lingered in the morning air.

"Huck," Jim said, "we should get an outboard for this thing."

Huck scratched his nose and shrugged. "What for?"

"’Cause if we don’t, Tom Sawyer’s gonna catch up to us and ruin the whole dang book."

Great stuff, but do you know how much trouble I'm going to have next time I read Huckleberry Finn? I'm never going to get that outboard out of my thoughts.

[Note On]

Regarding eyes that dart, roll, jump, and somersault...

It bugs me too--but sometimes it's the best of several bad options. You can say your gaze darted (rolled, jumped...), but "gaze" isn't all that common a word, so it can call attention to itself, especially if used repeatedly.

I think sometimes, it's one of those things that bothers writers and nobody else.

[stormie]

There's an author of several mystery books (who shall remain nameless) who uses "My eyes cut to the...." too many times. I just can't see (no pun intended) eyes cutting. Ugh.

There's a word program online that counts how many times you use the word "I" in a paragraph or story. It's http://www.wordcounter.com/

[Jewel101]

One must put into account that someone's dialogue won't be so well written. How many people care whether or not they are overusing 'I' while they talk? As for the externalizing, if someone is recounting a story, they won't be going into much detail now would they? It would be a quick summary right?

[Diviner]

There are exceptions to everything, but most good fiction is a balance of the internal and the external. Even dramatic or objective viewpoint, which is wholly external, still tries to show the internal through external events and reactions.

Objective viewpoint is, in fact, a great viewpoint for first person writers to learn. It teaches you how to show the internal through action and reaction, and all without the need of going into another character's head. Inability to do this is a common failing with both new first and third person writers. New first person writers just avoid showing the internal lives of others, and new third person writers tend to head-hop or suddenly jump into omniscient viewpoint to get the job done. Dramatic or objective viewpoint teaches that neither is necessary.

Could you expand a little on the objective viewpoint? How is it different from omniscient and third person?

Here is a bit of my third person POV prose to play with:

Margery's face got warm and her throat constricted. She looked down at her lap, where her hands twisted the cup she held, then lifted it to her lips and drank. Strong, sweet cider cooled her dry mouth, its slight fizz tickling her nose. Now slightly more composed, she said, "Oh, it's a great muddle."

She told what had happened, sipping her cider as she recounted the painful events, and ended by saying, "Father promised to send me away so Ralph wouldn't ruin his life. Imagine!" She grimaced and rolled her eyes.

[maestrowork]

Objective is also called "camera." Imagine watching a movie. You don't get to go "inside" a character's head. You get to observe his action and reaction. You watch the whole thing through the camera view.

Same applies to fiction when it's written in "objective" POV. It's very difficult to do well, however.

Your example:

Margery's face got warm and her throat constricted. She looked down at her lap, where her hands twisted the cup she held, then lifted it to her lips and drank. Strong, sweet cider cooled her dry mouth, its slight fizz tickling her nose. Now slightly more composed, she said, "Oh, it's a great muddle."

She told what had happened, sipping her cider as she recounted the painful events, and ended by saying, "Father promised to send me away so Ralph wouldn't ruin his life. Imagine!" She grimaced and rolled her eyes.


The sentence in red is when you get inside her head a bit -- you are showing us how she feels. In an objective POV, you don't. You'd probably do something like:

Margery's face got beet-red. She clenched her jaw and swallowed. She licked her lips as she drank her cider, and occasionally twitched her nose.

[Julianne]

I just want to echo what maestro said. Much of the overuse of "I" that I've read consists of, "I saw...," "I heard...," etc. The narrator is reporting what occurred, but the "I..." could easily be left out because it's irrelevant. For example:

"I saw a car come around the corner." --> "A car came around the corner."

"I heard a gun shot." --> "A shot rang out."

"I smelled burnt rubber and blood." --> "The smell of burnt rubber and blood hung in air."


Just my 2 cents...

P.S. Can you tell I'm working on a little mystery story? :)

[Lenora Rose]

There's an author of several mystery books (who shall remain nameless) who uses "My eyes cut to the...." too many times. I just can't see (no pun intended) eyes cutting. Ugh.

I'd say It's a good indication that person also writes screenplays. "Cut to:" is a camera direction, and a fast glance in some new direction can have a similar effect (Particularly since we tend to blink when we make a really fast refocus).

It's still a rather gruesome description, though.

[NeuroFizz]

A note from a reader moved to be a contributor. The "I" problem isn't limited to first person. In third, a similar situation comes from starting too many sentences with "he" or "she," called he echoes or she echoes. I agonized about this until I received a wonderful piece of advice from a professional editor who has a book out on self-editing: If the writing is exciting and engages the reader, he or she echoes won't be noticed. The other side of the coin--it's best to try to mix up the sentence structure, but with caution. Some of the easy fixes are just as annoying as the echoes.

Cheers to all.

[Steve 211]

Hey Neuro - is that book you mentioned Self-Editing for the Fiction Writer, by Renni Browne? Good book, if it wasn't.

[NeuroFizz]

Steve,

Yup. But the editor with the advice was the other author, Dave King.

[Jamesaritchie]

Could you expand a little on the objective viewpoint? How is it different from omniscient and third person?

Here is a bit of my third person POV prose to play with:

Margery's face got warm and her throat constricted. She looked down at her lap, where her hands twisted the cup she held, then lifted it to her lips and drank. Strong, sweet cider cooled her dry mouth, its slight fizz tickling her nose. Now slightly more composed, she said, "Oh, it's a great muddle."

She told what had happened, sipping her cider as she recounted the painful events, and ended by saying, "Father promised to send me away so Ralph wouldn't ruin his life. Imagine!" She grimaced and rolled her eyes.

maestrowork is right. In objective, you don't go into anyone's head. A movie can be a good example, though in some movies you do go inside a character''s head with a voice over. A stage play might be a better example. It's all what you see and what you hear.

Hemingway's short story "Hills Like White Elephants" is a quick example. http://ee.1asphost.com/shortstoryclassics/hemingwayhills.html

[firehorse]

Excessive I's come from not really taking on the character's point of view. The character see 'from' I, not 'at' I.Excellent point, and the crux of the rookie problem IMO.

Then there's the Helen Fielding solution: skip first-person pronouns entirely ;)

I did that somewhat with my Idol piece this week, but only because it fit the character's cadence. Won't say it didn't help, though :D

Over-internalization: I'm still new at fiction, but one of the lessons that has taught me the most is "trust the reader." If you've set up a situation correctly, the reader will feel the same thing you're trying to convey with "She thought," "He felt," etc. Easier said than done.

I had a professor once read a piece of mine and ask if I felt 'unheard' in the real world. She was dead on. It carried over to explaining-way-beyond-the-necessary.

Which, I suppose, is territory into which this post is venturing... :gone:

[firehorse]

Excessive I's come from not really taking on the character's point of view. The character see 'from' I, not 'at' I.Excellent point and the crux of the rookie problem, IMO.

Then there's the Helen Fielding solution: skip first-person pronouns entirely ;)

I did that somewhat with my Idol piece this week, but only because it fit the character's cadence. Won't say it didn't help, though :D