Repeating Words

John61480 · May 25, 2008

--Please, no need to be critical to me about this, this is only my observation and I'm looking for answers as well. --

Hi, sorry if this might not be in the correct area of AW.

Anyway, I have a question about repeating words in pages of novels. Could it be true that to have a readable manuscript for an agent to consider, that one must accomplish not repeating words throughout every bundle of pages of their manuscript?

I have looked over a few published books that I have and I noticed that for the most part, the authors didn't repeat words. Not necessarily He/She and names and the beginning of sentences. But words that describe things for example: hammer, mountain, car, jacket, trees, anger, happy, time, up, down and so on. Not necessarily objects only either. When the author did repeat words, it seemed like it was on purpose.

I was especially impressed with Stephen King because he writes huge blocks of stuff and there is hardly any repeating unless the voice of his narrating needs it.

I'm bringing this up because I looked over nearly ALL of my writing for the various stories that I have and I notice that I do indeed repeat words. It is devastating because of the amount I have written and the effort I put into it. However, I have the beginning of one story at 550 words that barely escaped this syndrome, yet I still feel incompetent. Yes, you read that correctly, 550 words. I'm that bad at repeating stuff in my other stories.

I cannot understand this because nowhere in any of my writing books do they state this as a fact for writing novels. No creative writing teacher that I have had has ever touched on this subject. I might have to wonder if this is one of many tricks that an agent might use to identify "publishable" writing that they would want to represent. How much more could be out there that a "wannabe" writer such as myself doesn't know about and is hoping to "get lucky" with something? I can't imagine what being marketable might mean. But I guess that is a topic for another time.

Would someone like to comment on this phenomena?

John61480 · May 25, 2008

Maybe someone can tell me that I'm wrong, so I can continue writing this one story I had fun with, which I was hoping to maybe submit to agents when I am finished.

Thanks.

alleycat · May 25, 2008

I think the biggest thing is just avoiding the obvious repetition of certain words or phrases (when it would tend to be noticeable and/or irritating to a reader).

I think many of us fall into the habit of sometimes using the words we do in everyday language and often times they are the same ones. "It was a pretty nice day . . . She was a pretty nice mother . . . They were pretty nice about it . . . Bob was pretty smart . . . "

Mumut · May 25, 2008

I was told in a writing course with the Australian Department of Technical Education (TAFE) not to repeat words withing a few paragraphs of each other, if possible. I used to do it and had to force myself to put a lot of time into correcting my work, but when it was published the editor did not find one occesion of repitition to complain about.

And it is worth it. Once you are aware of the 'error' of repitition of words, especially names, it really hits you when you read it. As you said, work that doesn't do this is noticeably easier to read.

So I empathise with you. You've a lot of work ahead of you. But when you get the royalties cheque you will know it was worth it.

Devil Ledbetter · May 25, 2008

I cannot understand this because nowhere in any writing books do they state this as a fact for writing novels. No creative writing teacher that I have had has ever touched on this subject.

Self-Editing for Fiction Writers covers this in the chapter on avoiding repetition.

This sort of thing is easier to catch if you have a good critique partner. Also, if you set your manuscript aside and then reread it after a while, the repeated words will jump out at you. If you even suspect you've used a word a few times too many, do a "search" on it in your word processor. My rule of thumb is, the more unusual a word, the few appearances.

Even so, be careful not to over use common words, either. It really starts to stand out, and not in a good way.

Another no-no is using the same word in two different ways close together, for example "with a pop, he popped the lid off Pop's pop bottle." It's a gross exaggeration, but you get my point.

veinglory · May 25, 2008

I am so prone to word repeating that it drives me editors crazy. If I use a word once I like to get it in three more times by the end of the page. A very bad habit and it all has to go during editing.

Pat~ · May 25, 2008

Hi, John. Yes, repeating words in your writing is not favored by editors--but we all probably have a tendency to overuse certain pet words (mine is 'actually'--I try to nuke it whenever I notice it

). So don't be too hard on yourself; it's a good sign that you're aware of it.

Not every word repetition is necessarily bad, either. Depending on your story, some words may need more repetition than usual.

JoNightshade · May 25, 2008

I don't think you need to worry about little words or nouns. I think the repeated words that bug me fall into two categories:

1) Descriptors. If someone is, say, "feisty," or a statue is "curvaceous," I only need to hear that once. And if the same descriptor is used for something else in close proximity, my brain is going to pick up on this. I think it's okay to use these more than once as long as it's spread out.

2) Five-dollar words. If you don't know what those are, $5 words are words that are not commonly used, and they're usually large words. Often you can use much smaller words to convey the same point, but sometimes a big word just does the trick. Anyway, usually you can only get away with using a given $5 word once in a novel/story/whatever. Example: One of my favorite authors used the word "vertiginous" three times in the last book of his I read. We're talking a 600-page manuscript here - and it stuck out at me like a sore thumb. The first time was fine, it was used well, but it's a word you NOTICE, you know what I mean? So the second time, I wasn't thinking "That's an apt description." I was thinking, "Hey, he used that before."

John61480 · May 25, 2008

So what I'm understanding is that editors do notice this repetition of words. Of course, that is much farther in the playing field than I could ever imagine stepping foot in.

So how about agents? Would they care about this kind of stuff too?

Devil Ledbetter · May 25, 2008

JoNightshade said:
I don't think you need to worry about little words or nouns. I think the repeated words that bug me fall into two categories:

1) Descriptors. If someone is, say, "feisty," or a statue is "curvaceous," I only need to hear that once. And if the same descriptor is used for something else in close proximity, my brain is going to pick up on this. I think it's okay to use these more than once as long as it's spread out.

2) Five-dollar words. If you don't know what those are, $5 words are words that are not commonly used, and they're usually large words. Often you can use much smaller words to convey the same point, but sometimes a big word just does the trick. Anyway, usually you can only get away with using a given $5 word once in a novel/story/whatever.

Good point, Jo.

Gestures are another thing you don't want to repeat too often. If your characters are always sighing or grinning or nodding, it gets old fast.

John61480 · May 25, 2008

Devil Ledbetter said:
Good point, Jo.

Gestures are another thing you don't want to repeat too often. If your characters are always sighing or grinning or nodding, it gets old fast.

How about words like: town and jacket? Especially the word jacket.

This was the word in a story I was having fun with that made me notice what I think I know now.

Matera the Mad · May 25, 2008

You have made a very important observation. Now take a deep breath and relax, okay? What is really important is not to establish any noticeable patterns in your word usage. Combining the same words repeatedly (other than the common brick and mortar words) or using the same word too many times in a paragraph, or the same kind of phrases and sentence structure over and over -- that pokes out. But everyone is writing a different story in their own way. You have to do what you have to do.

Happens I've gone through my stuff many times, searching out one problem word after another. Nobody (well, hardly anybody?) writes perfect prose the first time around.

Kalyke · May 25, 2008

...The two packs were at the foot of the tree covered with a canvas and Robert Jordan knelt down and felt the canvas wet and stiff over them. In the dark he felt under the canvas in the outside pocket of one of the packs and took out a leather-covered flask and slipped it in his pocket. Unlocking the long barred padlocks that passed through the grommet that closed the opening of the mouth of the packs, and untying the drawstring at the top of each pack...

...and on and on. canvas, packs, pockets on and on. Ernest Hemingway, Chapter IV, "For Whom The Bell Tolls".

You should talk like a person talks, and write like a person talks. If the paragraph is about packs and pockets, then that is what you should write about... If you are having fun writing a great book, for goodness sake don't get all paranoid about shifty little unwritten rules. The last rule is always, if it is good, ignore the other rules. IMHO

alleycat · May 25, 2008

JoNightshade said:
1) Descriptors. If someone is, say, "feisty," or a statue is "curvaceous," I only need to hear that once. And if the same descriptor is used for something else in close proximity, my brain is going to pick up on this. I think it's okay to use these more than once as long as it's spread out.

I tried to read a book not too long ago where the main character was a "gorgeous redhead". Every character that met her would notice that she was a "drop-head gorgeous redhead" or a "stunning redhead". Yes, we get it; she's a beautiful redhead.

John61480 · May 25, 2008

Well thank you all.

I read over what everyone had to say numerous times and I made the decision to going back and changing repetitious words in my writing.

Better safe than sorry.

I appreciate all the comments so far.

Mumut · May 25, 2008

On the other hand, the occasional repeated word is useful in a change of scene:

'Jenny crouched in the muddy ditch and thought that everything that could go wrong had gone wrong...then it started raining.

John closed the door against the sudden squall of rain and walked to the fire. As he warmed his hands he congratulated himself. Nothing had gone wrong with his intricate and diabolical plan.'

So don't attack every occasion of repitition. Read the passage out loud and the enormity of the sin will be easily heard.

ShebaJones · May 25, 2008

Speaking as a non-published writer and all-around ne'er-do-well, I write like I speak. Plainly. I form the words in my head like a running commentary (think of some poor schmuck trying to read an audiobook as the writer is writing it) and I type them.

Then I go back through and read it out loud. If it's stilted or hitches every time a reach a repeated word, or confusing, I either rewrite the sentence completely or I find a synonym. The former I do a lot. The latter, very occasionally.

I try to keep some temporal distance between the time I write it and the time I read it aloud. I can write some of the best prose that becomes utter gibberish a week later.

Now, my answer to the question you actually asked: I'd try to keep at least two paragraphs between repeated words. There are exceptions, of course, and one is if the incessant repetition is being used as a comic device. And even that in moderation.

nevada · May 25, 2008

Sometimes though, especially in literary short stories, words are repeated several times in a paragraph as a deliberate stylistic choice. so the idea echoes and builds on itself like an intersecting wave pattern getting larger every time.

But you have to be a really good writer to pull that off and if you don't have a lot of experience best to stay away from the repeating words.

Exir · May 25, 2008

I repeat the words "A" "an" "the" a lot of times.

None of my beta-readers seem to have problems with that.

anicabache · May 26, 2008

For me, its ok to repeat words on different pages as long as it flows with the entire novel.

ErylRavenwell · May 26, 2008

Common sense dictates you shouldn't repeat a word (it sounds very awkward) unless you can't help it.

Birol · May 26, 2008

I change repetitive words in rewrites. It's part of the process.

Telstar · May 26, 2008

Mumut said:
I was told in a writing course with the Australian Department of Technical Education (TAFE) not to repeat words withing a few paragraphs of each other, if possible.

I have been taught this in high school...

shelboselby · May 26, 2008

I think you've heard plenty on this subject, and I was looking over my work, I noticed I use an awful lot of intentional repitition. Where I repeat the structure of a sentence over and over about three or four times to stress a point.

I'm starting to worry that that becomes rather taxing on the reader.

KTC · May 26, 2008

shelboselby said:
I think you've heard plenty on this subject, and I was looking over my work, I noticed I use an awful lot of intentional repitition. Where I repeat the structure of a sentence over and over about three or four times to stress a point.

I'm starting to worry that that becomes rather taxing on the reader.

I for one think it would. You have to see your reader as able to figure things out. Readers don't like being beaten over the head with things.

Repeating Words

The Elements of Style

The Elements of Style

Still around

Well begun is half done...

Come on you stranger, you legend,

volitare nequeo

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

has finally arrived

The Elements of Style

Come on you stranger, you legend,

The Elements of Style

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint

Still around

The Elements of Style

Well begun is half done...

I post in the nude.

Out of the cradle endlessly rocking

Around and About

I create people

One Girl Mediocrity Machine

Stand in the Place Where You Live