Semi-Pro magazines/e-zines

Tburger · May 19, 2008

I have a serious question. I just read an editorial on Baen's universe about slush and either Erik or Mike suggest that submitting writers don't mention their publications in semi-pro magazines because it looks amateurish. I've submitted to several semi-pros, because I like some of them.

But can someone tell me if there is any benefit - other than seeing your name in print - to getting something published by a semi-pro mag? Do editors/agents ever read them?

Shweta · May 19, 2008

Some semi-pro magazines (and some token-pay ones) are pretty high prestige.

Honestly, speaking as a reader, I'd count a sale to Fantasy Magazine, for example, as more impressive than a sale to Baen. And a sale to Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet is the highest of the high to some of us. I'd rate Electric Velocipede pretty darn high too, and will be obnoxiously proud if I ever manage to sell to them. That's a small sampling, but stories in these magazines do win major prizes and get into year's best anthologies, etc. I know for a fact that Ellen Datlow looks at semi-pro as well as pro magazines when considering what to put into the Year's Best Fantasy and Horror.

Might they have been referring to the lower-prestige semi-pros?

Tburger · May 19, 2008

Shweta said:
Some semi-pro magazines (and some token-pay ones) are pretty high prestige.

Might they have been referring to the lower-prestige semi-pros?

It's not clear. The reference to semi-pros is at the bottom of the article:

http://www.baens-universe.com/articles/Editorial__Vol_2__Number_2__Slush

Shweta · May 19, 2008

Tburger said:
http://www.baens-universe.com/articles/Editorial__Vol_2__Number_2__Slush

I'd call it one editor's rather snarky opinion. I do see where he's coming from, but there are major exceptions to that rule, IMO. Because there are semi-pro zines publishing better stories than you'll find in some of the pro zines.

I suppose if I ever submit to Baen I'll leave off my sales to wonderful magazines such as Coyote Wild and Shimmer; but if Mr. Resnick thinks my "sales" to them are worthless, I consider that his loss, because he's missing out on lovely work that I'm proud to be in the company of.

eqb · May 19, 2008

Tburger said:
But can someone tell me if there is any benefit - other than seeing your name in print - to getting something published by a semi-pro mag? Do editors/agents ever read them?

It depends entirely on the semi-pro magazine. As Shweta pointed out, there are semi-pros with excellent reputations. You can find them by reading the annual Year's Best anthologies and their Honorable Mention lists. Check out the market summaries in those books, too, and Rich Horton's annual summaries, which he publishes in his livejournal (http://ecbatan.livejournal.com/).

That said, Resnick is right that you want to avoid listing a dozen tiny no-pay or low-pay markets in your credits.

MumblingSage · May 19, 2008

This is good to hear, Shweta. I'm aiming mostly for semi-prozines myself now (since I'm new, everything will probably end up in token, but right now I'm considering my writing career one big practice session), and I'd like to think I'll land at least one worthwhile credit from this...or at least some cash and a google page to myself

Shweta · May 19, 2008

MumblingSage said:
This is good to hear, Shweta. I'm aiming mostly for semi-prozines myself now (since I'm new, everything will probably end up in token, but right now I'm considering my writing career one big practice session), and I'd like to think I'll land at least one worthwhile credit from this...or at least some cash and a google page to myself

No. No.
Nonono.
Start at the top. Never settle. Never decide you're only good enough for semipros. The worst the pros can say, unless you do something crazy, is "Not for us, pass". If you send a story to a smaller market and it sells, you'll wonder forever after whether you could have sold it to a better market. Don't do that to yourself.

And don't self-reject by deciding you're not good enough for the big-fishie pool.

You can always send to smaller markets after the pros have gotten first no. The only exception to this, IMO, is if there's a small market that's perfect for your story, and it's closing forever, or if there's a big market that you don't want to be published in. Then it's okay to send to the small market first, or to skip that particular big market.

astonwest · May 19, 2008

I've also heard that you should include any publication which accepted your work...it shows that someone other than your mother thought your writing was worthy. I'd chalk this up to one person's opinion.

badducky · May 19, 2008

Electric Velocipede, Weird Tales Magazine, Fantasy Magazine, Shimmer Magazine, Talebones, and Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet don't qualify for SFWA. Neither does Abyss and Apex, Ideomancer, or Bewildering Stories.

However, I personally guarantee that a sale in one of those markets would raise eyebrows anywhere and everywhere eyebrows can be raised. If you sell to one of those markets, you *should* put it on your cover letter.

I don't understand what Baen's Universe is smoking in their guidelines. The measure of any magazine is the quality of the content, not the pay scale.

I can think of a couple pro-paying markets that have never had stories appear in a Years Best Antho, or a major award, after all...

eqb · May 19, 2008

astonwest said:
I've also heard that you should include any publication which accepted your work...it shows that someone other than your mother thought your writing was worthy.

Ack! No! List only credits you think the editor or agent have heard of. (In a good way, that is.) They don't have to be pro credits, but don't list any bottom-scraping markets.

Shweta · May 19, 2008

Uh yeah, I was not recommending that we put in bottom-scraping markets. I'm pretty much averse to submitting to them at all, honestly. If a story isn't selling somewhere I respect, it's probably good for me to trunk it.

eqb · May 20, 2008

Shweta said:
Uh yeah, I was not recommending that we put in bottom-scraping markets. I'm pretty much averse to submitting to them at all, honestly. If a story isn't selling somewhere I respect, it's probably good for me to trunk it.

Oh, I knew you weren't recommending bottom-scraping markets. I was replying to the advice astonwest had mentioned, which seemed to imply that any credits were worth mentioning.

Yes, if you've exhausted all the reputable markets (pro and semi-pro), it's probably time to trunk the piece. After a while, you either realize it won't sell at all, or a new good market opens that's just right for the story.

Gray Rose · May 20, 2008

IMHO, mentioning credits would depend on where you are sending the piece. If you are aiming at semi-pro and token-pay mags, then why not mention all of your credits? In most places, editors tend to be less snobbish than the JBU editors.

I mentioned my Fantasy Mag sale in every cover letter I wrote, and will continue to do so.

Personally, a sale to LCRW would be more meaningful to me than a sale to JBU.

eqb · May 20, 2008

Gray Rose said:
IMHO, mentioning credits would depend on where you are sending the piece. If you are aiming at semi-pro and token-pay mags, then why not mention all of your credits? In most places, editors tend to be less snobbish than the JBU editors.

Here's what I hear from lots of different editors, pro and semi-pro:

Yes, do mention credits if you think they are from reputable markets. Interzone, Fantasy, LCRW, etc. are semi-pros that have good reputations.

Do not mention *all* of your credits. Not only does that get unwieldy, but if you mention a dozen no-pay markets, you aren't impressing anyone. What you are doing is telling the editor that you spent years (possibly) without breaking through to the higher-level markets.

Instead, pick three or so of your best credits.

And it's better to mention no credits than a lot of iffy ones.

Personally, a sale to LCRW would be more meaningful to me than a sale to JBU.

My sale to JBU is meaningful, and not just because of the pay-rate. The magazine has an excellent reputation, and the editors were a delight to work with.

But I'd also find a sale to LCRW meaningful.

Smiling Ted · May 20, 2008

badducky said:
Electric Velocipede, Weird Tales Magazine, Fantasy Magazine, Shimmer Magazine, Talebones, and Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet don't qualify for SFWA. Neither does Abyss and Apex, Ideomancer, or Bewildering Stories.

"Qualify" how?

Summonere · May 20, 2008

Smiling Ted said:
"Qualify" how?

SFWA explains qualifications here:

http://www.sfwa.org/org/qualify.htm#Q7

Smiling Ted · May 20, 2008

Maybe it's time for a Sticky list of semi-pro mags that are reputable, worth submitting to, and worth mentioning as credits?

Smiling Ted · May 20, 2008

Summonere said:
SFWA explains qualifications here:

http://www.sfwa.org/org/qualify.htm#Q7

Okay - qualifying as a credit to allow entry into SFWA. Got it. Thanks!

MumblingSage · May 20, 2008

I think Smiling Ted's suggestion is a good one, because people new to this whole 'publishing' deal won't be able to tell a magazine's reputation by it's duotrope listing.

Now somebody's going to come along and show me how to do exactly that

.

eqb · May 20, 2008

MumblingSage said:
I think Smiling Ted's suggestion is a good one, because people new to this whole 'publishing' deal won't be able to tell a magazine's reputation by its duotrope listing.

Read reviews. Check the contents of the various Year's Best anthologies. (And read the list of Honorable Mentions, too.) Read the magazines themselves, to see who else sells to them.

This is just another part of the business, just like checking the submission guidelines and knowing how to write a query letter.

Shweta · May 20, 2008

We could start a thread, though, with members saying which markets they've sent to/sold to/recommend, and what their area/background is.

And...

Beth Bernobich said:
Oh, I knew you weren't recommending bottom-scraping markets.

(I know, just wanted to make sure it was totally clear, because on rereading it might have sounded to someone coming in sans context that I meant submit anywhere).

badducky · May 20, 2008

I doubt a sticky is necessary. If you just look at the major awards, you'll see authors and publications up for nominations.

Follow them around.

Where do your three or four favorite authors of short fiction sell their stuff?

Smiling Ted · May 20, 2008

badducky said:
I doubt a sticky is necessary. If you just look at the major awards, you'll see authors and publications up for nominations.

Follow them around.

Where do your three or four favorite authors of short fiction sell their stuff?

Umm...Which major awards? Hugo, Nebula, and what else?

Here's the thing. Speaking purely for myself, I'm not an SF/F ignoramus - no, really, I'm not! - but I didn't even know that LCRW or Duotrope existed until this thread. And it's much harder to search for something you don't even know exists.

So if we already have both a "Must See, Must Read" sticky AND a "Master Book Recommendation" sticky, shouldn't we at least have a thread describing the good and bad F/SF short story markets?

Shweta · May 20, 2008

Well, I wouldn't want to go on the record saying "I think XXX market sucks". But I'm happy to post about what I like.

Smiling Ted · May 20, 2008

Shweta said:
Well, I wouldn't want to go on the record saying "I think XXX market sucks". But I'm happy to post about what I like.

Fair enough.

Semi-Pro magazines/e-zines

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