How well read should I be?

Straka · May 17, 2008

So in the past year I work 2 fantasy manuscripts. Meanwhile it dawned on me that I actually haven't read all that much fantasy.

To counter this gap of knowledge I started trying to read a book a week. I haven't made that quiet but I've been trying to hit a lot of different bases. What I have read:

The Hobbit
LOTR
Wheel in Time (the first 3)
Magic Kingdom for Sale
Eragon & Eldest
Myst: Book of Artus
Elantris
The Black Company
Lord Foul's Bane
Wizard's First Rule
Paper Cities (anthology)
Demons do Dream (another other Pier's Anthony works)
A few D&D books
Harry Potter (all of 'em)
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
Alice and Wonderland
Wicked
Son of a Witch
American Gods

I've read more SF. The list above doesn't seem like that much at all once I've listed it out. Is this "typical" of other fantasy writers? What are other works I should read that might come up conversations or good examples of a particular sub-genre?

Thanks!

SPMiller · May 17, 2008

If you really want to make yourself feel poorly-read, try this list on for size. I'm not gonna tell you how many I've read, but it's not nearly enough...

Note that it's by no means authoritative. Just an informal, outdated Intarweb poll with quite a bit of selection bias.

Ravenlocks · May 17, 2008

Well, that list certainly made me feel poorly-read. On the other hand, I go by the philosophy that life's too short to read something I don't want to read, even if it's something I *should* read (this didn't apply when I was in high school and college).

Straka, you might start by making sure to read well-known books within your own subgenre(s).

tehuti88 · May 17, 2008

This isn't terribly helpful I'm afraid, but as a fantasy writer I haven't read that much fantasy either. I've never even managed to read the "LOTR" series or the Narnia or Harry Potter books yet...though I hope to someday. None of them have really fascinated me when I sampled them.

On the other hand, I do read an awful lot on the type of mythology and culture which figure in my fantasy fiction, so perhaps that makes up for it?

IMO reading the fantasy works of others can be helpful but not necessarily necessary to writing fantasy, unless of course you want to know what sells, and want to write something like that (which many writers of course want, though others wish for originality).

Edited to add: I haven't read a single thing on the list you originally posted, and haven't even heard of most of those. Hm.

Straka · May 17, 2008

That is a long list, tho it includes Sci-fi which I've read much more than Fantasy. Part of my quest is to experience what is published and hear the difference voices authors use.

Raven Locks: I'm only starting to feel out my own sub genre. I didn't mean to exactly but my last work ended up being a dark urban (not modern day) fantasy.

Plot Device · May 17, 2008

Every now and then I jump into a thread that has nothing to do with film. And without asking anyone's permission I inject a filmic perspective. (Just because I feel like it.)

It's easy in today's culture for someone (like me) to pretend they are well-versed (not well-read but well-versed) in either sf or f if they have "all" the movies under their belt. But film usually represent just a hyper-condensed encapsulation of all the ideas that are out there in those two literary genres. Also, there are some works of sf/f literature that are just so deep and profound that they can't be rendered to film in any justifiable fashion. Dune is perhaps the best example of this since so much of that novel was internal thoughts and motivations as well as loads of detailed historical backstory of people, family lines and even entire planetary civilizations. As for LotR, I loved the films, but the books are all the richer still.

So for any film freaks out there who want to try and pull the veil off their own eyes and face the reality that they are NOT well-read in sf/f (in spite of how impressive their home video and DVD library is), I think checking out and comparing at least five of the "official" lists of recommended books from various sf and f societies is a great place to start.

Ravenlocks · May 17, 2008

tehuti88 said:
IMO reading the fantasy works of others can be helpful but not necessarily necessary to writing fantasy, unless of course you want to know what sells, and want to write something like that (which many writers of course want, though others wish for originality).

Actually, reading widely within your own genre is more likely to make you original. If you don't know what's out there, you may end up duplicating it by accident.

Straka said:
Raven Locks: I'm only starting to feel out my own sub genre. I didn't mean to exactly but my last work ended up being a dark urban (not modern day) fantasy.

That's cool.

benbradley · May 17, 2008

You haven't read "A Spell for Chameleon?" I think it also has a sequel or two...

SPMiller · May 17, 2008

Also,

What are other works I should read that might come up conversations or good examples of a particular sub-genre?

Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. But it isn't finished yet, so if that's something you demand of a work, don't start reading it.

Tburger · May 17, 2008

I always thought that reading non-SF/F books was also a good idea. Hemingway once wrote that you can learn all you need to about writing the great novel by reading one book: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. I unintentionally started out wanting to be a literary guy who eventually realized that he loved writing sci-fi, horror and the occasional humor short story; I was even laughed out of my first "creative" writing class at the University of Virginia for writing genre! So up until that point I spent a lot of time reading "literature." Did it help? I don't know, but I just started trying to get my stuff published and it ain't looking good so far!!!

Gray Rose · May 17, 2008

SPMiller said:
If you really want to make yourself feel poorly-read, try this list on for size. I'm not gonna tell you how many I've read, but it's not nearly enough...

Note that it's by no means authoritative. Just an informal, outdated Intarweb poll with quite a bit of selection bias.

Hah! That's a list after my own heart. I've read most of the books there. The Beetle in the Anthill is a work of genius, but I am not sure it's ever been translated. Same about the Warlock (Wiedzmin) series, and it's a damn shame.

blacbird · May 17, 2008

Your list conspicuously doens't contain anything by:

George Macdonald
William Morris
Lord Dunsany
E. R. Eddison
Clark Ashton Smith
C.S. Lewis
J.R.R. Tolkien
Ursula LeGuin

or any of the key SF pioneers, notably:

H.G. Wells
Olaf Stapledon
A.E. Van Vogt
Stanley Weinbaum

or any of the fantastic adventure pioneers, notably:

H. Rider Haggard
Edgar Rice Burroughs
Talbot Mundy

Point being, if you're restricting your reading to stuff published in the last decade or so, you're missing the Founders of the genre you claim to. I don't think any respectable fantasy writer should be unaware of the work of these greats.

caw

SPMiller · May 17, 2008

Everyone always forgets Zelazny!

Gray Rose · May 17, 2008

blacbird said:
Your list conspicuously doens't contain anything by:

George Macdonald
William Morris
Lord Dunsany
E. R. Eddison
Clark Ashton Smith
C.S. Lewis
J.R.R. Tolkien
Ursula LeGuin

snip
Point being, if you're restricting your reading to stuff published in the last decade or so, you're missing the Founders of the genre you claim to. I don't think any respectable fantasy writer should be unaware of the work of these greats.

caw

Blacbird, not that I disagree with what you're saying, but his list contained two books by the good old J.R.R. Tolkien.

It's been a while since I heard that somebody read E.R. Eddison. Cheers.

Izunya · May 17, 2008

Off the top of my head:

The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
Something from the Discworld series (Terry Pratchett) besides Colour of Magic
Something by Neil Gaiman (I recommend Coraline. Creepiest. Kid's story. Ever.)
Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynn Jones
If you think you're going to be writing urban fantasy, some of Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden series. (If you don't mind starting in the middle of things, I recommend Dead Beat.)
At least one book from the Earthsea series, by Ursula K. LeGuin.

Just a few starting points.

Izunya

blacbird · May 17, 2008

Gray Rose said:
Blacbird, not that I disagree with what you're saying, but his list contained two books by the good old J.R.R. Tolkien.

Point. Read it too fast.

But in an odd way, it serves to illustrate my point: an awful lot of budding fantasy writers seem to believe that JRR invented the genre, and are utterly ignorant of his forerunners and contemporaries. Which brings up the fact that I forgot to mention Mervyn Peake.

caw

Shweta · May 17, 2008

I want to throw in Hope Mirlees, Lud in the Mist for fantasy classics that people forget cause they think JRR started everything.

And yeah, I often feel like I'm not well-read, and then I look at how little other people seem to be reading... um. Yeah. Dunno whether to feel smug or horrified. Personally, I wouldn't want to write in a genre without having a good notion of the award winners as well as the uberbestsellers.

Smiling Ted · May 18, 2008

On the principle that too many titles will just cause overload, and recognizing that Straka's already read Tolkien, and that we're talking only about fantasy, not science fiction - I'd say start with these:

Lord of Light - Roger Zelazny
The Once and Future King - T.H. White
A Wizard of Earthsea - Ursula K. LeGuin
The Eyes of the Overworld - Jack Vance
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - CS Lewis

Those books set the bar for post World War II fantasy (White wrote most of his work during WWII, the others in the 60s and 70s).

While Haggard, Eddison and Macdonald all influenced future generations of writers (Eddison to Tolkien and Vance, Macdonald to CS Lewis, Haggard to just about every pulp writer and then to George Lucas) their work can seem a little inaccessible today. (Eddison in particular writes in a very ornate style that takes a lot of work to enjoy - my opinion.)

And those five should keep you occupied for a bit (The Once and Future King is a big 'un).

Shweta · May 18, 2008

Smiling Ted said:
Those books set the bar for post World War II fantasy (White wrote most of his work during WWII, the others in the 60s and 70s).

I have trouble with this bar, especially because nothing in the list is anything like recent. If that's setting your bar, you're going to sound like you stopped reading in the 70s.

I would say at least add in something by:
Peter S. Beagle
Robin McKinley
Tim Powers
Steven Brust
Lois McMaster Bujold

I'd also add in Scott Lynch's the Lies of Locke Lamora, Stephen Hunt's Court of the Air, and Jo Walton's The King's Peace to get an idea of the bar for first novels published in the last few years.

Mr Flibble · May 18, 2008

Point being, if you're restricting your reading to stuff published in the last decade or so, you're missing the Founders of the genre you claim to. I don't think any respectable fantasy writer should be unaware of the work of these greats.

I got told off by an agent for preferring the old stuff *sigh* I should model myself on modern writers apparantly. Well , stuff that.

Anyway, I call your list and raise you CJ Cherryh and Robert E Howard!

Shweta · May 18, 2008

IdiotsRUs said:
I got told off by an agent for preferring the old stuff *sigh* I should model myself on modern writers apparantly. Well , stuff that.

Eh, I think it's useful to have a range. I think one should have a sense of the roots of the field, especially if you have read Tolkien, because far too many people read just him and get this massively skewed notion of the genre. But I don't think it's a good idea to stop there.

I bet I could find new books you'd like, IdiotsRUs. Tell me what old books you like, and let me try?

Also, with old stuff, add in Patricia McKillip's Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy. That, Earthsea, and LotR are... I dunno, a trinity

tehuti88 said:
I've never even managed to read the "LOTR" series or the Narnia or Harry Potter books yet...though I hope to someday. None of them have really fascinated me when I sampled them.

On the other hand, I do read an awful lot on the type of mythology and culture which figure in my fantasy fiction, so perhaps that makes up for it?

Sounds to me like you might be one of us weird kids who are more interested in Mythic Fiction than more prototypical fantasy.

Try this reading list, if so

(Warning: unlike the one above, where I've read most of 'em, this one does make me feel hopelessly unlettered.)

SPMiller · May 18, 2008

If that's setting your bar, you're going to sound like you stopped reading in the 70s.

Well, according to my bookshelves, fantasy kind of tapered off in the mid-to-late 70s and then spent two decades in the background before finally resurging in the mid-to-late 90s. So, I can't really blame Ted.

Obviously I've missed a lot of powerful fantasy novels/series from that period. On the other hand, I have plenty of sf novels dated '75-'95. It's very silly, I know.

And that reading list is harsh. I've at least read a good number of books from the list I posted. But I've read exactly zero of yours.

Shweta · May 18, 2008

SPMiller said:
And that reading list is harsh. I've at least read a good number of books from the list I posted. But I've read exactly zero of yours.

Ha yes, it's harsh.
Between my husband and myself, going through both the mythic list and the fairy tale list, we've read maybe fifteen things on that page. And heard of maybe fifteen others.

I think you might be missing out on some lovely fantasy, but then I also started picking up a lot more fantasy starting around 1995, so who'm I to talk?

loquax · May 18, 2008

I think reading widely in SF is much easier than doing the same in fantasy. A lot of "classic" novels are SF; 1984, A Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451, A Clockwork Orange, as well as a lot of mainstream stuff like Crichton and Vonnegut. So don't worry that you've read more SF - just count it as "reading". It all comes under the umbrella of "speculative fiction" anyway.

Mr Flibble · May 18, 2008

I bet I could find new books you'd like, IdiotsRUs. Tell me what old books you like, and let me try?

Oh I've found some that I like. Just there's a lot more that I don't. I have unfashionable tastes ( yes, I don't like A Song of Ice and Fire, so shoot me.) I don't care for a lot of the trends at the moment ( in the UK anyway.) which kind of limits my choices

ETA: just to be clear , it's not neccesarily the writing I don't like ( sometimes, but not always) but the actual subject or the plot.

And for me, a lot of the older stuff rocks.

As for modelling myself after modern authors (or at least comparing myself to them in a query) as suggested, I don't want to be the new anyone, I want to be the first me

How well read should I be?

Bored Fanatic

Prodigiously Hanged

How novel.

Mackinac Island Fanatic

Bored Fanatic

A woman said to write like a man.

How novel.

It's a doggy dog world

Prodigiously Hanged

Wahoowa

Beware of the Thorns!

Prodigiously Hanged

Beware of the Thorns!

gone

Ah-HA!

gone

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

gone

Prodigiously Hanged

gone

I verb nouns adverbly

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble