An appropriate gift?

Anything fairly impersonal is good. Handkercheifs, for example, or books or chocolates. Ribbons... I'm not sure about gloves, but nothing else that might be worn. He could get her little china figurines or fans, too, souvenir-type things. If they're engaged or he's announcing his intention for them to become so with the gift it can be a bit more personal, but still nothing like jewelry.

This is just from my memory, though, so hopefully someone else will come along who has better ideas.

Have him give her something wildly inappropriate.

Nothing like a bit of consternation and conflict to spice things up! Maybe he meant to send it to someone else and the servant delivering things mixes the parcels!

Actually, a hat/bonnet would be fine if you want to play it straight. A woman never had enough hats back then. Recall that Rhett Butler gifted Scarlet with a bonnet and it was considered a respectable item for a young widow. (Providing she dyed it black.) Yes, I know, it's decades after the Regency period, but old customs die slow.

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Back in the day, Elizabethans would exchange tiny little flea boxes--the damned bugs plucked from their bodies. This was considered to be very intimate!

Or they might exchange "love apples." The lady would peel an apple, stuff it in her armpit for a few days until it absorbed her scent, then give it to her man to keep him company when he was away.

Ew. I'd rather send a picture.

Gillhoughly said:

Back in the day, Elizabethans would exchange tiny little flea boxes--the damned bugs plucked from their bodies. This was considered to be very intimate!

Or they might exchange "love apples." The lady would peel an apple, stuff it in her armpit for a few days until it absorbed her scent, then give it to her man to keep him company when he was away.

Ew. I'd rather send a picture.

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Yuck! I don't know about anyone else, but there are days where Gillhoughly scares me.

Gillhoughly said:

Recall that Rhett Butler gifted Scarlet with a bonnet and it was considered a respectable item for a young widow. (Providing she dyed it black.) Yes, I know, it's decades after the Regency period, but old customs die slow.

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No, it wasn't:

Scarlett's mouth dropped open. The line was so closely, so carefully drawn where gifts from men were concerned.

"Candy and flowers, dear," Ellen had said time and again, "and perhaps a book of poetry or an album or a small bottle of Florida water are the only things a lady may accept from a gentleman. Never, never any expensive gift, even from your fiance. And never any gift of jewelry or wearing apparel, not even gloves or handkerchiefs. Should you accept such gifts, men would know you were no lady and would try to take liberties."

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(Scarlett ended up lying to people and saying she'd paid Rhett a hundred dollars for the bonnet.)

Now, I have read in a few places that Regency girls had a little more freedom and leeway than women in the GWTW period and place--I seem to recall that specifically from What Jane Austen Ate...--but I'm not sure.

Looks like I was probably wrong about the handkerchiefs though.

Yeah, I seem to recall that any sort of clothing item 'intimated' that there was a more personal relationship between giver and recipient, and as such was considered a bad gift.

What about a puppy?

A portrait artist to do a pix of her family would be a gift from a wealthy suitor, then have the artist do a pix of him for her & vice versa as the courtship advances.

New ribbons to trim clothing, a set of embroidery needles, gold-handled scissors, a looking glass, snuff box, new saddle & bridle for her horse, a new horse, a dog or cat or bird as a gift works too.

I was going by the movie, not the book. I must have read it about 6 times before I hit junior high and replaced Rhett with Frodo, who had much better manners. And hey-- a magic ring!

Last year I tried to read GWTW again, and found what was acceptable to a 12 y.o. was now offensively racist, male chauvinist piggish, and just plain silly! I wanted to b**** slap Scarlet for being so danged man-crazy. She should have given both Rhett & Ashley the heave-ho and gone her own way.

And yes to those who wonder, tis true, I know all kinds of weird sh**.

I found the love apple thing while Googling for Elizabethen fleas.

"Love apple" can also mean "tomato" but I guess those would get kind of squishy after a bit in one's pit.

Found elsewhere:

"A cheek-cream that was sold under the name of 'Aqua Toffana', or 'Manna of St. Nicholas of Bar' in seventeenth-century Italy. A certain Signora Giulia Toffana offered this very special face-treatment for sale to fashionable ladies and it proved to be particularly popular among wives who wished to dispose of their husbands. <snip> a highly poisonous mixture containing arsenic and other lethal ingredients. Signora Toffana always insisted on a special visit from each of her clients, <snip> that they must never ingest the make-up and must apply it to their cheeks when their husbands were about to engage them in amorous contact. This ensured that their husbands' mouths, pressed against their cheeks, would take in enough of the make-up to kill them. Afterwards, the excuse was always 'death by sexual excess' and the ruse worked well for many years. -- from Desmond Morris' "The Naked Woman."

Love apples, flee boxes and killer make-up sounds like the most awsome stuff I've ever heard of! How come no one writes about them in the romances I read?

Something seriously outrageous I'm thinking of is lingerie - what an utter scandal! Hehe..

As for appropriate - I can't think of anything that hasn't already been mentioned - I would say something like kerchiefs, etc.. Also, not to forget the old adage, something made ... if he has a hobby/craft, he could tie in his attraction/feelings/whatever to her - that would be extremely sentimental.. Or gift something that ties in with her hobby, etc..

I think having the context you want to place this in might help lots with brainstorming..

It depends if you're aiming for actual historical accuracy. I'm pretty sure that Jane Austen and any of her characters would have been shocked and outraged at the idea of a gentleman giving any kind of gift to an unmarried lady. Even a book might have been frowned upon, especially a poetry book.

I say, what?

girlyswot said:

Even a book might have been frowned upon, especially a poetry book.

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Didn't the good Colonel Brandon give Marianne Dashwood a book of sonnets? He did in the movie . It's been too long since I've read the book, to say for sure. I can't imagine even the most proper ton momma objecting to Shakespeare!

He certainly does give her a piano but only when it's very clear that the two are just about to get engaged. I'm pretty sure that the sonnets are only in the film.

And though Shakespeare might be perfectly acceptable, the point is that the giving and accepting of a gift, any gift, indicated an intimacy of relationship and a sort of indebtedness that they would have wanted to avoid unless marriage was very imminent.

I'm assuming that the gift Cherivixen is referring to would be unknown about by the other characters - just like any amount of fondling, etc that goes on! hehe

I don't know much about the Regency period, but I've a good knowledge of how things were prior to it. A man giving a woman--even his wife!--lingerie would be considered the height of poor taste if not a horrendous insult. It could be the start of a huge fight, as the lady might accuse him of treating her as he would a hired trollop. Even a hired trollop might have issues with such a gift.

They were called unmentionables for a reason: no one wanted to talk about them!

I tried a search on Regency underclothes and found this useful site:

http://www.jasa.net.au/seaside/Bathing.htm

I got caught up in the amusing bathing article so no time to check the others for the antics folk got up to at the beach.

And http://www.jasa.net.au/fair.htm


And this book was apparently written by a lady of the period--an invaluable source of info!

You can likely find a copy via Interlibrary loan. Just copy the title, author & take it to the librarian to see if she can't find you one if it's not on the shelf.

My best source of info on a period when writing historicals is to read the books that were out at that time. Some libraries might have microfiche copies of English papers going back that far. There are some up on the web if you Google long enough.

It gives me a feel for the language used, helping to avoid anachronisms.

Here's more books to look for:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00150GHSS/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582970637/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0140282963/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

Yikes, seeing the level of research necessary to get the history right just reminds me why I don't plan to write a Regency if I can help it. Too danged hard!

And though Shakespeare might be perfectly acceptable

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Depends on the sonnet--some of them were pretty hot stuff, if not downright salacious. Check out The Rape of Lucrece some time. In Othello Iago lets drop "your daughter and the Moor are now making the beast with two backs", and Prospero was pretty plain in his opinion of pre-marital canoodling between Miranda and her intended in The Tempest.

Heh--and my teachers thought I read all that Shakespeare just for the extra credit!

I think the guy should mention Gibraltar from the start and get her to talk about her paintings.

If so much time has passed she would appreciate it, otherwise it can put her on the defensive or make her think "ew, creepy-stalker-guy."

Every time someone's come out of my past and tried to play head-games with my memory I tend to get seriously annoyed and cut them off at the knees.

But that's just me.

Case in point was a girl who phoned me out of the blue, said we'd been best buddies in high school and made me try to guess her ID. Trying to be polite, I struggled to remember who I hung out with back then and failed. I should have known the friends I had then wouldn't have tried this guessing-game crap with me. They'd know better!

When she finally gave her name I still couldn't remember her, and came to see she was seriously mistaken about us being chums. While she clacked on over the phone I eventually recalled that I had never hung out with her crowd. We never went to McDonalds all the time for lunch--I didn't have the money!--and had barely exchanged three words with her from 10th-12th grade.

Oh crap, she's creepy-stalker-chick! (That adventure did NOT end well.)

More recently an old friend (a real one) and I ran into each other in a store. He wasn't being creepy, and I was genuinely delighted to see him. I gave him a big hug, was really nice, put on the charm, the works. It had been a loooong time.

Problem was, he was totally not that old friend I'd not seen in a couple years! No wonder he looked blank when I mentioned mutual friends.

In fact he was the clerk from the bookstore next door that I'd not seen in oh, at least a week.

I'm bad with names and faces. Y'think?

On the plus side, he might ask me out since I was so friendly.

Unless he thinks *I'M* now creepy-stalker-person!

Clothes of any sort would have been, well I'm thinking her mother would consider gloves a proposal. Even my grandmother, who contrary to what you might have heard did not date during the Regency period, considered any kind of clothing to be an insult to a lady. After one was engaged gloves, scarves, hats, unbrellas and jewelry were acceptable. Don't think she wasn't a romantic, she married her second husband for love when she was 72.

Stlight

Right on, Stlight. Thank you for that one.

Another point to consider is female rage when the guy blows it with an inappropriate gift. I have become very PO'd when a man gave me ordinary clothes like jeans or jackets. (What, you think I can't dress MYSELF????)

It was made worse because the clothing a) came from a thrift store [cheap bars-turd!]; b) did not suit my personal taste [cheesy c&&p]; c) totally did not fit [I'm a size 14 moron, not a 5!]; d) wildly out of style [disco is DEAD, spandex is OVER!].

Many a vicious fight was sparked until I finally made it clear all future clothing prezzies would be hurled straight into the trash where they should have gone in the first place. He finally got a ticket on the clue train and stopped, much to my relief. (I eventually smarted up and dumped him.)

Historical dudes had better stick with nice, SAFE flowers, or ask their female relatives what's appropriate for courtin' gifts.

I'm guessing that guys back in the day could be just as clueless as the ones here and now!

Of course, if you've got a bad guy, then him sending personal stuff to the heroine can be REALLY creepy--especially if she thinks it came from the hero! Yikes!

Cause the good stuff is $$$$$?

Agreed on appliances. I'd have fed a guy to the Fry Daddy an inch at a time. You can guess what body part I'd start with.

Flowers. Flowers gooooood. Hard to mess that up unless the lady has allergies or if there's a giant spider hiding in the blooms.

Even Homer Simpson figured that one out.


GAH! I suddenly got a mental pic of Homer dressed as a Regency dandy.

I have to go back to bed, curl into a fetal position, and weep manically for a bit.