Something is not right

petronella63 · May 9, 2008

Something is not right with the following sentence:

Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large blue vases.

What can I do to fix it?

Angela_785 · May 9, 2008

flanked and either side are basically saying the same thing.

Before me was a tall double door flanked by large blue vases.

However, I would also try to make the sentence more active by losing the 'was'.

I came to a tall double door flanked by two large vases. or Ahead loomed a tall double door flanked by two tall vases.

veronie · May 9, 2008

Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large spitting cobras.

Appalachian Writer · May 9, 2008

Frist, it's a passive sentence, like Angela said. Second: As she pointed out, flanked and either side essentially mean the same thing, redundant.

Suggested revision: In front of me, a double door strectched upward, flanked by two large vases.

benbradley · May 9, 2008

petronella63 said:
Something is not right with the following sentence:

Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large blue vases.

What can I do to fix it?

I see nothing grammatically wrong, but literarily, it does appears rather weak. Let's see if other responses give a hint.

Angela_785 said:
flanked and either side are basically saying the same thing.

Before me was a tall double door flanked by large blue vases.

However, I would also try to make the sentence more active by losing the 'was'.

I came to a tall double door flanked by two large vases. or Ahead loomed a tall double door flanked by two tall vases.

Better with active voice, but it got split into two sentences.

veronie said:
Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large spitting cobras.

I dunno, it looks like the exact same passive sentence structure, yet the meaning of the sentence is changed...would not get a good eBay feedback rating.

Appalachian Writer said:
Frist, it's a passive sentence, like Angela said. Second: As she pointed out, flanked and either side essentially mean the same thing, redundant.

Suggested revision: In front of me, a double door strectched upward, flanked by two large vases.

I think this is incrementally better, with stretched upward being an active verb (or verb phrase?). But I just came up with this which is succinct and I think quite strong, if you can get by the ~~appearance of putting the~~ apparent emphasis on the vases:

Two large vases flanked a tall double door before me.

veronie · May 9, 2008

benbradley said:
I dunno, it looks like the exact same passive sentence structure, yet the meaning of the sentence is changed...would not get a good eBay feedback rating.

Okay, I wasn't very helpful. But, i think you missed the bigger picture ... there are now spitting cobras in the story.

Sandi LeFaucheur · May 9, 2008

I think you can lose "before me". Where else would it be? Two large, blue vases flanked a double door.

maestrowork · May 9, 2008

Sandi LeFaucheur said:
I think you can lose "before me". Where else would it be?

I agree. Cut the filtering unless clarity is the issue, which isn't the case here.

Two large, blue vases flanked a double door.

I disagree with this. Usually active voice is better but it's really not an issue about passive voice. "Flanked" is simply a participial modifier here. The focus is the double door. By changing it to "two vases flanked a double door" the focus is switched, and also it sounds clunky.

ErylRavenwell · May 9, 2008

petronella63 said:
Something is not right with the following sentence:

Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large blue vases.

What can I do to fix it?

Edited:

Before me was a ~~tall double~~ door flanked ~~on either side~~ by two large ~~blue~~ vases.

I wouldn't give that much attention to doors and vases. Just enter the room.

veronie · May 9, 2008

But enter carefully. There are spitting vipers near the door. (Please don't send me nasty messages. I'm having fun.)

Kalyke · May 10, 2008

Before me was... sounds awkward, and "flanked" presumes that something is beside another thing.

A tall double door flanked by two large blue vases stood before me.

Or, I entered a tall double door flanked by two blue vases.

Simply removing modifiers does not help a sentence that is essentially passive. The door does nothing but stand. The second sentance works better because it is linked to an action-- Entered, rather than Was, or Stand

Maryn · May 10, 2008

Um, is it too late to point out that the nature of flanked means you not only don't need to refer to on either side but also don't need two?

Maryn, her critique group's nitpicker

Duncan J Macdonald · May 10, 2008

Maryn said:
Um, is it too late to point out that the nature of flanked means you not only don't need to refer to on either side but also don't need two?

Maryn, her critique group's nitpicker

Ahh, but you do. Otherwise, it's an indeterminate number -- the door could be flanked by 20,000 large blue vases, which imports an entirely different sense of scale.

Careful though, picking nits leads to scarring...

IceCreamEmpress · May 10, 2008

Yes, as Duncan Macdonald says, the door could be flanked by lotsa vases (20K is over the top, though--too much blue!)

Two large, blue vases

You don't need a comma after a size adjective, or before a color adjective. Clifford is a "big red dog" not a "big, red dog."

petronella63 · May 10, 2008

Thank you all for your helpful comments!

Veroni, you're making me laugh with your spitting cobras and vipers. Maybe the cobras could be in the vases?

What I was trying for was not to have the sentence begin with 'I' - one seems to end up with too many of those in first person POV. At least I do.

This was my original sentence, and the one following it:

I turned, and in front of me, I saw a large double door flanked on either side by two very large vases. Opening the doors, I stepped through into a room, which held a huge bed.

Obviously a very bad one with the 'I' twice in quick succession and too many adjectives. However, removing the 'I' as I did and another small revision made the sentence passive. Not sure about the comma before 'which'.

Doing some thinking... how does this work?

I turned, and saw a double door flanked by blue vases.
Opening the doors, I stepped through into a room, which held a huge bed.

Can I assume the reader would automatically know the vases are large in size because they are situated on the floor beside door? Could the two sentences be blended into one?

ErylRavenwell · May 10, 2008

Duncan J Macdonald said:
Ahh, but you do. Otherwise, it's an indeterminate number -- the door could be flanked by 20,000 large blue vases, which imports an entirely different sense of scale.

Careful though, picking nits leads to scarring...

Maryn is right on spot. "Flanked by large vases" is quite enough to imply there are only two vases there. It would be rather odd to have a door flanked by more than two vases, especially if those vases are large. A reader would automatically assume two vases and if you omit the colour, would connect them to a colour of his own.

Sandi LeFaucheur · May 11, 2008

I turned, and saw a double door flanked by blue vases.
Opening the doors, I stepped through into a room, which held a huge bed.

Can I assume the reader would automatically know the vases are large in size because they are situated on the floor beside door? Could the two sentences be blended into one?

I think I missed that the vases were on the floor. In my mind's eye, they were sitting on tables. But I guess you didn't say they were on tables, which means they must be on the floor....

I think if you asked us all to draw the scene, we'd all come up with something a bit different. But I don't think that's a bad thing.

HeronW · May 11, 2008

A pair of heavy doors stretched up, to either size two vases stood empty.

I don't think you need to say: 'I saw' because if the ms is in 1st POV, everything is done by the MC.

Dario D. · May 15, 2008

I'd say:

Before me was a tall double door, flanked on either side by two large, blue vases.

-

Couple points:

- Though it is technically redundant, it helps me MORE, as a reader, to have "flanked" AND "either side" here. Again, it's technically incorrect, but I think the author was wise to put this, and "felt" this one correctly. (besides, you have to specify that you aren't just flanked on ONE side, which is the default assumption when you say that something flanks you)

- As a reader, I couldn't care less about having a passive voice here. There is absolutely no loss of effect, for me... (in fact, the only loss would be the poor writer having to stop and waste her time*thinking* about these details)

- I disagree with IceCreamEmpress that you don't need a comma after "large" in "large blue vases" just because size and color are different types of attributes. As an example, look what happens when we extend that description with new attributes, and don't use commas: "The man was flanked on either side by two large blue smooth-feeling tilted ghostly vases." See, even though each attribute is a different type, it doesn't mean we don't need commas.

---
All-in-all, I think Petronella got more than she bargained for, with all the analysis in this thread!

If I were an editor, I would have only dropped in a couple commas for you in that line... that's it. I don't think it's worth any thought.

dobiwon · May 15, 2008

Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large blue vases.

I know it's technically correct, but it bothers me to see "on either side" used when what is meant is "on each side". "On either side" to me means that the vases might be either on one side, or on the other, but not on both.

As far as specifying two vases, are there supposed to be two vases on each side, or one on each side?

CaroGirl · May 15, 2008

The revision depends on where you want the emphasis: the door or the vases.

If you want to emphasize the vases, try "Large blue vases flanked a tall double door." or "On each side of the tall double door sat two large blue vases."

If you want to emphasize the door, try "A tall double door rose between two large blue vases."

All these options get rid of "I" and make the sentence active.

Constantine K · May 15, 2008

veronie said:
Before me was a tall double door flanked on either side by two large spitting cobras.

Sentence fixed.

hammerklavier · May 15, 2008

Is the door taller than a normal door?

IceCreamEmpress · May 16, 2008

Dario D. said:
- I disagree with IceCreamEmpress that you don't need a comma after "large" in "large blue vases" just because size and color are different types of attributes.

That wasn't my argument at all.

You don't need commas after adjectives of size, or before adjectives of color, in adjective pairs. Those are special cases.

It's "Clifford the big red dog" but it's "Clifford the lazy, elderly dog."

And it would be "Clifford the lazy red dog" and "Clifford the big elderly dog."

With more than two adjectives, all bets are off. It's "Clifford the big, red, elderly dog."

CaroGirl · May 16, 2008

ICE is correct. There should not be a comma between large and blue. That would be just wrong.

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