Sophomore Jinx

Nateskate · May 9, 2008

I'll preface this with an update. I'd mentioned finding a publisher awhile back. The time tables changed for a variety of reasons. So instead of doing the edits in January, and being in print by this summer, I was told that I will be assigned an editor this summer.

It was also suggested that for marketing purposes to keep talk about the book, the website...etc on the low until the release neared.

The first fear (most of us share or shared at one time) was "I'll never find a publisher, and my WIP will wind up as a doorstop."

Now, I don't assume everyone goes through the same kind of pathetic mental processes that I do. My WIP is a series, and so, instead of Yippidy Do Dah, I went about editing books two and three.

And instead of Joy, Joy, Joy, I found myself feeling the same insecurities I did the first go around- They loved the first book- what if they hate the second...it's so different!

It's kind of like getting a date to the prom, and worrying you'll split your pants and have terrible bad breath, and they'll change their minds, with the exception that in some ways, each book stands alone, and so there is a need to prove ourselves again and again.

I'm sure some of you are beyond that thinking. Still, I'm curious what kinds of outlooks some of you have had to deal with or still have to deal with?

windyrdg · May 9, 2008

My understanding is that you never get over that. If anything, success only creates more pressure to stay at that level, or exceed it.

My first book is out on submission now. I'm 95% finished with the first draft of the second book in the series. (Nothing like having confidence, huh?) Anyway, I'm feeling the same things. Will they like it? What about the differences? Ya Da, Ya Da.

The only ones who might not have these feelings would be the "authors" - I hesitate to even call them that - like James Patterson who just phone it in.

David I · May 9, 2008

Nateskate said:
I'm sure some of you are beyond that thinking.

Not me.

Will Lavender · May 9, 2008

windyrdg said:
My understanding is that you never get over that.

I think this is true. I got a chance to meet Robert McCammon recently. I was talking to him about how difficult it had been for me to finish my second novel. He basically said what you say here: "You never get over that."

Here's the thing for me personally.

With the first novel I was just playing around. Tinkering. I've always wanted to be a writer, but I really had no concept of what was involved. Had never studied agents or the marketplace or any of that.

Now that money and reputation are on the line, the marketplace is all I can think of. The work, even though I fight against it, sometimes becomes secondary.

It's a lot of pressure.

However, there is pressure there for those who are unpublished. It's awfully vain for a person who has a book out rant and rave about the pitfalls of the publishing world when there are so many who would love to experience those pitfalls.

Nateskate · May 10, 2008

windyrdg said:
My understanding is that you never get over that. If anything, success only creates more pressure to stay at that level, or exceed it.

My first book is out on submission now. I'm 95% finished with the first draft of the second book in the series. (Nothing like having confidence, huh?) Anyway, I'm feeling the same things. Will they like it? What about the differences? Ya Da, Ya Da.

The only ones who might not have these feelings would be the "authors" - I hesitate to even call them that - like James Patterson who just phone it in.

Lol. I'm hoping this feeling changes at some point. It's too much stress.

Nateskate · May 10, 2008

Will Lavender said:
I think this is true. I got a chance to meet Robert McCammon recently. I was talking to him about how difficult it had been for me to finish my second novel. He basically said what you say here: "You never get over that."

Here's the thing for me personally.

With the first novel I was just playing around. Tinkering. I've always wanted to be a writer, but I really had no concept of what was involved. Had never studied agents or the marketplace or any of that.

Now that money and reputation are on the line, the marketplace is all I can think of. The work, even though I fight against it, sometimes becomes secondary.

It's a lot of pressure.

However, there is pressure there for those who are unpublished. It's awfully vain for a person who has a book out rant and rave about the pitfalls of the publishing world when there are so many who would love to experience those pitfalls.

Lol. It's a stressful week, so maybe that has to do with my outlook, and I'll feel better about this later.

Sure, there is a feeling when unpublished, "If only...I would be satisfied..." So it really is about my getting the right outlook; and I realize that.

Gillhoughly · May 10, 2008

Get used to it.

Every book has to be better than the previous one.

Embrace this, 'cause there's going to be more of the same--hopefully with increasing advance money.

arainsb123 · May 12, 2008

windyrdg said:
The only ones who might not have these feelings would be the "authors" - I hesitate to even call them that - like James Patterson who just phone it in.

James Patterson's books have little to recommend them, yes. But it's not fair to assume he's "phon[ing] it in" because his work isn't to your or my liking. It is to the liking of a whole lot of people.

Shady Lane · May 12, 2008

First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth novels were fine. Now the seventh is giving me fits. Never know, I guess.

Angela_785 · May 12, 2008

I think series are hard this way, because there's so much pressure on that second novel to live up to the first. I have a 1st book in a series being shopped with an agent and have since sent in 2 other books for the series. Both the agent felt needed some big changes, which was a blow, because the first book she wanted to start sending out immediately.

I keep thinking that even if an editor shows interest in book one, what if they read the other two and say, 'Na, not for us?'

Nateskate · May 13, 2008

Gillhoughly said:
Get used to it.

Every book has to be better than the previous one.

Embrace this, 'cause there's going to be more of the same--hopefully with increasing advance money.

I can only hope. My problem isn't the story ideas, it's that I find myself in a kind of re-write hell at times. I was on the last chapter of book two, and I must have done fifty versions of the first few pages. It took weeks, and I couldn't decide if this was the greatest chapter since the approach of the Black Gates, or absolute rubbish. So, it's not just the insecurity of "Will they like it", it's the amount of emotional energy it takes, perhaps because I sometimes think my story is far beyond my actual talent level.

Nateskate · May 13, 2008

Angela_785 said:
I think series are hard this way, because there's so much pressure on that second novel to live up to the first. I have a 1st book in a series being shopped with an agent and have since sent in 2 other books for the series. Both the agent felt needed some big changes, which was a blow, because the first book she wanted to start sending out immediately.

I keep thinking that even if an editor shows interest in book one, what if they read the other two and say, 'Na, not for us?'

The publisher is pairing me with an editor. I haven't talked to them yet. Perhaps if they're brilliant and great to work with, they can talk me through some of these things. (Should I end book two here...or here; should I just throw this chapter out?) In a sense, I see the editor as the bright spot. I'd rather they give me some suggestions before each subsequent book goes to the publisher, so that I can work out the flaws before they see it.

There's that concern that they'll think- oops...big mistake. And since this story is far more than 3 books (Unless they're Tad William's sized), I imagine it will be awhile before I feel a sigh of relief.

Gillhoughly · May 13, 2008

Stop second-guessing, you'll make yourself nuts and never write anything at all.

You're just having growing pains. Pull on your game face and have FUN with this.

Write what totally turns you on and don't wonder what others might think.

If it gives you a buzz, chances are it will do the same for others.

Finish it, give it to a beta for feedback, and be working on the next thing that gives you a buzz so your head doesn't explode.

More writing careers are snuffed by the writers themselves than by any editor.

And just so you know, my first chapter had over 25 rewrites, and the first book had (at least) three full rewrites before it sold. It was a bitch, but I DID it!!!

(Using a 1973 vintage K-mart typewriter with White Out and carbon paper, yet!)

Pike · May 13, 2008

Just to help those jitters, I read this post over at the League of Reluctant Adults from Anton Strout. It seems to be a common theme many writers worrying about making the grade. It's almost as if each book is a brand new adventure you fear failing (or flailing in my case).

Pike

Nateskate · May 14, 2008

Gillhoughly said:
Stop second-guessing, you'll make yourself nuts and never write anything at all.

You're just having growing pains. Pull on your game face and have FUN with this.

Write what totally turns you on and don't wonder what others might think.

If it gives you a buzz, chances are it will do the same for others.

Finish it, give it to a beta for feedback, and be working on the next thing that gives you a buzz so your head doesn't explode.

More writing careers are snuffed by the writers themselves than by any editor.

And just so you know, my first chapter had over 25 rewrites, and the first book had (at least) three full rewrites before it sold. It was a bitch, but I DID it!!!

(Using a 1973 vintage K-mart typewriter with White Out and carbon paper, yet!)

I appreciate what you're saying.

Ultimately, I have to do this. I love writing, but I'm too easily frustrated when I have something that's not coming easy. Yesterday I spent more time "not writing" just kicking back.

Nateskate · May 14, 2008

Pike said:
Just to help those jitters, I read this post over at the League of Reluctant Adults from Anton Strout. It seems to be a common theme many writers worrying about making the grade. It's almost as if each book is a brand new adventure you fear failing (or flailing in my case).

Pike

Part of my difficulty is that I'm not pragmatic, and staying focused is not my strength. I'm one of those people that needs momentum, which would be fine if I could write well in one pass, and have minor revisions. My revisions have been the biggest struggle, because I wind up with massive changes, and in effect, have to go through this process again.

I'm hoping that I get a great editor, someone patient, someone willing to allow me to bounce ideas around. That way I can know ahead of time if an idea is a good one.

HConn · May 14, 2008

Me, I'm working on my sophmore effort right now. I wrote the book I sold and switched to a completely different idea while I sent out queries. When I landed an agent, I did as I was told: I dropped the new idea and went to work on a sequel.

I have no idea if I'll live up to the promise of the first book. It's going to be similar in some ways and very different in others. And I don't have as much time for this one as I've had in the past.

Still, this is the job. I have to prove that I belong in the bookstore, and I have to keep proving it.

I have no idea what I'm saying at this point. Hopefully, this is helpful.

wayndom · May 14, 2008

Nateskate said:
Now, I don't assume everyone goes through the same kind of pathetic mental processes that I do.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't. All creative people are insecure. Comes with the territory. That's why there's so much alcoholism and drug abuse in the creative vocations.

The only way I know of dealing with it is to truly immerse myself in the story at hand -- that is, LIVE in the story. If I don't do that (A) my work won't be as good, and (2) I'll start worrying about what agents, publishers, and the reading public will think, which is totally self-defeating.

Mental discipline is probably the hardest, but you just can't afford the "luxury" of "what-if" thinking.

johnzakour · May 15, 2008

I find some things grow easier with each book some things grow harder. I use to worry, "oh I'll never be able to finish this book" or "I'll never find a publisher for this." Now that I've complete and sold a bunch of books I don't worry about these things any longer.

Now I worry: "am I getting better? Improving with each book..." "Am I getting boring do I need to make some changes? What do I do to make sure I'm not changing too much?" "What can I do to better my sales?"

We all have our own sets of doubts and worries that's what makes us human. We just have to push on through them. For me the best way to write through them is to stay organized and stay positive and to occasionally walk away from the computer and do fun mindless things.

Elaine Margarett · May 15, 2008

Gillhoughly said:
More writing careers are snuffed by the writers themselves than by any editor.

!)

I'm writing this on a sticky and posting it on my monitor!

NeuroFizz · May 15, 2008

Every story is an independent work, even if it is in a series. Success in one doesn't guarantee success in the next, which only means we have to work really hard to make each story shine, make sure the writing is sound, make sure it has the necessary entertainment value.

As for the sophomore jinx thing (or other forms of hand-wringing), an emotional response like this easily can become a self-fulfilling prophesy if you let it impact your work in any way.

Nateskate · May 15, 2008

HConn said:
Me, I'm working on my sophmore effort right now. I wrote the book I sold and switched to a completely different idea while I sent out queries. When I landed an agent, I did as I was told: I dropped the new idea and went to work on a sequel.

I have no idea if I'll live up to the promise of the first book. It's going to be similar in some ways and very different in others. And I don't have as much time for this one as I've had in the past.

Still, this is the job. I have to prove that I belong in the bookstore, and I have to keep proving it.

I have no idea what I'm saying at this point. Hopefully, this is helpful.

It sounds like you share similar feelings. On the positive side, they must really like the direction of your first book.

Nateskate · May 15, 2008

wayndom said:
I can't imagine why you wouldn't. All creative people are insecure. Comes with the territory. That's why there's so much alcoholism and drug abuse in the creative vocations.

The only way I know of dealing with it is to truly immerse myself in the story at hand -- that is, LIVE in the story. If I don't do that (A) my work won't be as good, and (2) I'll start worrying about what agents, publishers, and the reading public will think, which is totally self-defeating.

Mental discipline is probably the hardest, but you just can't afford the "luxury" of "what-if" thinking.

I agree, outlook is a mental discipline, and as pointed out by others, at some point my outlook has to change or I'll be miserable.

You are so right about immersing in the story. That is one thing I continue to look forward to. Part of this headspace I'm in was due to the fact that I'm doing edits. When I find parts that work, it encourages me. But when I have to hammer away for weeks on one part, that is where I get discouraged, and fall into the second-guess pit, should I use dialogue or narrative- this character or that- or toss the whole scene.

Nateskate · May 15, 2008

johnzakour said:
I find some things grow easier with each book some things grow harder. I use to worry, "oh I'll never be able to finish this book" or "I'll never find a publisher for this." Now that I've complete and sold a bunch of books I don't worry about these things any longer.

Now I worry: "am I getting better? Improving with each book..." "Am I getting boring do I need to make some changes? What do I do to make sure I'm not changing too much?" "What can I do to better my sales?"

We all have our own sets of doubts and worries that's what makes us human. We just have to push on through them. For me the best way to write through them is to stay organized and stay positive and to occasionally walk away from the computer and do fun mindless things.

This is why I appreciate AW and the fact that real writers share their experience and feelings. Even though some will say "I wish I had your problems", I think we only feel that way until they are our problems. There're two sides to the coin, at least I think so. Once we achieve balance- being happy with what we've accomplished- there will be those feelings we must deal with as our goals change.

Oddly, it helps to talk with other writers who are or have been there. Lol, I now regret starting the thread on books I love and hate; because frankly, someone may add my novel to the list.

I appreciate how hard this whole process is, and to some extent that "glass-houses" proverb applies.

Nateskate · May 15, 2008

NeuroFizz said:
Every story is an independent work, even if it is in a series. Success in one doesn't guarantee success in the next, which only means we have to work really hard to make each story shine, make sure the writing is sound, make sure it has the necessary entertainment value.

As for the sophomore jinx thing (or other forms of hand-wringing), an emotional response like this easily can become a self-fulfilling prophesy if you let it impact your work in any way.

Part of my problem is that my story already exists, although I've made so many changes to the story along the way, that massive revisions are needed from here to the end. In some ways, I think that starting with a clean slate is better. It's the difference between building a house on an empty lot, vs remodeling a disaster, where everything must be gutted.

So why do it this way? Some grand old houses have so much character, you know they'll be worth the effort once the dust settles. For whatever reason, I think some of the fresh ideas I had when I first wrote out the story, were great. I just didn't have the skills to do them justice at the time. In effect, it's like I'm cleaning up this terrible mess, trying to spin it into gold. I see it as a painful process, rather than a hopeless one.

Sophomore Jinx

Nateskate

windyrdg

New kid, be gentle!

David I

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Nateskate

Nateskate

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

arainsb123

Learning!

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Angela_785

Nateskate

Nateskate

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Pike

Chivalry ain't dead

Nateskate

Nateskate

HConn

Whore for genre

wayndom

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate