My big problem at the moment with my novel

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HourglassMemory

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Sorry for the long rant. I just feel that I'm alone in this sort of problem.

My story has a big chunk of it that, presently, I have just as scenes. But I have no idea what to do with them. I don’t know what they’re for. I see no point in them but to entertain and punch the characters around.
The first part of the story I have pretty much worked out, but the second part, where events start spanning days and weeks without much happening, I just don’t know what to do. I’m not trying to put down every single day but things just don’t seem to flow naturally.

The scenes I have would be very entertaining if I was able to write well. But in between those scenes I have almost nothing. I have stuff like "volcano explodes, they run, X saves Y, they realize they really do depend on each other" and then… I don’t know how to go on. Am I going to jump to another crazy scene? What sort of conflict can come about that isn’t extreme? What sort of social interaction could they have that could entertain the reader, and make the reader believe that that sort of interaction between the characters could keep them busy for days, until another crazy thing happens? It’s the in between that I… *grabs hair*.

These scenes are really just stuff that happens to the characters. It’s stuff that happens to them, which they cannot control (I feel that my problem lies there. I can’t explain it well.) There really isn’t much coming out of the characters. And when there is, I find myself wondering seriously why the reader would even bother wanting to know why a characters reacts this way and why it’s conflicting. Do they really need to know the history of the city from where they come from? No….but then what am I going to make the characters talk about? I feel that I’ll run out of things to say if I dont' bring about little historical events from the city they come from. It’s a long walk that they’re doing!
And if I just keep the reader with them, and never mention the city, I would have to come up with 1 million curious scenes and dialogs. It’s insane!
The events that could be provoked by the characters, I find them really hard to create, but I do create them and I’m proud of a lot of them. teh majority has been created for that first part, inside the city.
I guess I’m a plot based writer.

The situations are unusual. Not boring, but unusual.
I guess I don’t know my characters well enough to make this process easy. But how do you make that easy???
I have character histories and I know their past and I do understand how they would react to this or that. I can sort of write down how they would react to these extreme events. I even undersatnd when people say, you don't have to impersonate a character, you have to embody it.

What’s annoying me is the middle parts. It’s what’s in between those Big events.
The sort of experiences my characters go through are insane and extreme and they take the characters to their limits, as they would any human being!
I just find it hard to think of how to make long walks not boring, sitting in front of my computer.

If I skip them it’s just insane event after insane event. It just looks unrealistic and too fast for the sort of story I want to write.
How would I slow down without boring the reader? I just find it laughable that I sort of have to have a Scene-Sequel-Scene-Sequel of their stroll on landscapes. What sort of conflict can arise there? What sort of event that isn’t extreme can make the characters have dillemas and inner struggles? I’m not going to bore the reader with my characters urinating and having a chat while they walk. Why would the reader want to read that? But that IS the sort of stuff that you would get on an expedition, lots of walking and talking. I feel that the sort of stuff the characters talked about would be boring and I feel that the readers wouldn’t read the history of these characters' city, for example.
They would read for the big events. The history of their city, especially the origins, is a mystery, so how am I going to deal with that? The city isn’t even the main thing in this book.
And the characters are scientists, am I going to talk about science? I sure could, I love science and I could try to explain this or that, and try to show a scientific mind at work, but, that’s when the reader would close the book. How can I do these middle scenes without being repetitive, and overfeeding the reader with extreme events or unbelievable interactions between characters? How can the characters alone, entertain the reader? I do try to make them as different as possible, so their interactions are curious and interesting.
ACK!

Am I just aiming too high?
I guess I’m going through a low phase at the moment.
This is what I get for trying to write something that I can’t find anywhere else. Then I have nothing to hold on to guide me.

Trying to be original is hard.
So that’s why writers copy each other !!!!!
 
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Calla Lily

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Without knowing what kind of story it is, I can just give general opinions.

Did you read Harry Potter 7? Right about the middle, Harry and Ron and Hermoine were hiding in the woods for chapter after chapter after chapter aarrgghh!

I nearly threw it across the room. About 1/6 of that was necessary, IMO. That's one of those cases where tell is better than show.

So if your characters are on a quest(?), try throwing in some subplots. That way they can still be traveling where they have to go, but the reader will be intrigued by the other stuff happening.

And If your characters are scientists, can they do impromptu experiments with volcano ash, or the local herbs, or other stuff?
 

HourglassMemory

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Without knowing what kind of story it is, I can just give general opinions.

Did you read Harry Potter 7? Right about the middle, Harry and Ron and Hermoine were hiding in the woods for chapter after chapter after chapter aarrgghh!

I nearly threw it across the room. About 1/6 of that was necessary, IMO. That's one of those cases where tell is better than show.

So if your characters are on a quest(?), try throwing in some subplots. That way they can still be traveling where they have to go, but the reader will be intrigued by the other stuff happening.

And If your characters are scientists, can they do impromptu experiments with volcano ash, or the local herbs, or other stuff?

I get what you're saying about Hp 7.
The story is a science fiction story I guess. A big epic.
Yes, they are on a quest, you could say that.

subplots....yes. Lol every time I come here, people just casually spurt out something and it makes me smile because it's a simple thing.
Well what sort of stuff could subplots be about?
I'll have to google it.

Could they do impromptu experiments with ash and such? Sure. And make measurements(which could go wrong and be dangerous :D). Yes I have tons of stuff like that.
 
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HourglassMemory

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On subplots:

This is the most wonderful site: Hatch's Plot Bank.

And I see you already have subplot ideas. :) Do you have an outline? If so, you can stick them in and if they want to go in another chapter, you can easily move them around.
I don't think I do have an outline. I don't have my story written down, from beggining to end, anywhere. It's in my head.
What should I do if I was to have an outline? What would be the benefit of having one?
 

Soccer Mom

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Yup. You need a subplot or two. Subplots can be wonderful for showing the changes in your characters.

For example, Volcano explodes. X saves Y and they realize how much they've come to depend on each other. Add in subplot and use it to place a scene where we see the difference in how they interact.


Here is the most recent thread debating the merits of outlining. Some feel passionately anti-outline while others are passionately pro-outline.
 
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Rolling Thunder

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An outline could help make things easier. For example:


I.) First chapter (sets scene and characters)
a) blah
b) blah
c) MC has an argument with friend, who storms off into the night. Earthquakes begin shortly thereafter, causing MC to worry about friend.

II.) Volcano explodes
a) MC is searching for his/her friend and finds him/her just as the eruption begins.
b) They run for their lives, stealing a car in the process to escape the approaching lava.
c) Unknown to them, the car they stole is packed with illicit drugs/contraband/stolen treasure.
d) During their escape the MC's both realize how fleeting life can be and decide to find a nice place to live a quiet life.

III.) The antagonist appears
a) Julius Mintera is pissed.
b) His car, loaded with drugs/contraband/stolen treasure was stolen and he barely escaped with his life during the eruption.
c) He wants his stuff back and he's gonna kill whomever stole it.

etc, etc, etc.

You don't have to start with an outline either. If you just want to 'wing it', finish a chapter and write a short outline of what took place. Then as your story grows you can spot potential subplots or problems. Don't worry about these in the first draft. When it's time to edit, the outline will help to dig the gems out and toss the crap away.
 
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Kalyke

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I used to go on scientific expeditions and I can tell you, they were anything but boring! Just taking a shower in the desert was an adventure. We had to move the camp when a huge flash flood hit once-- gosh, you can think up all sorts of things... Then of course they talked for hours and hours. I spent several summers out there-- nearly died also-- my memoirs will be fun.
 

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I ran into the same situation and I found the best way to get out of it is to put myself mentally into the scene and imagine it happening in real time while I am there. A volcano erupts... what would I do? Would I be busy embracing my friend in a new found sense of mutual dependence, or would I be running for my life? Would we be high-fiving or trying to find a way to get away? There's not a lot of self-examination going on when you're in a flight or flight situation, so focus on the actions going on to save their lives and save the emotional introspection for when they are clear of the danger.

You may also find, as I did, when you do this that characters may behave differently than you originally intended them to.
 

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Conflict between characters is always a good idea. Military people vs. scientists vs. missionaries etc. Romance could bloom. Or hate could bloom. Having one or more members of the expedition that have secret agendas is tried and true. A member who is working for an organization that is out to sabatoge the mission or co-opt it for their own purposes can be interesting. Maybe give it your own twist. Have the mission leader as an unreliable narrator who is himself (or herself) the one who does not want the mission to succeed.
 

Round John Virgin

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How do I get there from here?

Trying to be original is hard.
So that’s why writers copy each other !!!!!

Even when we succeed at originality, we're influenced by the writers we read. That's not necessarily copying. It's learning what works. I see from your profile that you like Dan Brown. Reread The DaVinci Code and pay attention to how he gets from one big scene to the next. Ditto J. K. Rowling.

Are your stories told from multiple viewpoints, with the villains' and other characters' own bits of intrigue going on? If so, work on them for a while and let your subconscious ponder the hero's situation. If you don't have a full enough stable of colorful characters to turn to, invent one. If you have too many, kill one off.

Also, when you think you know just how someone will react to something, have him or her do the unexpected. (Surprise yourself!) This will probably mean not relying too much on an outline--maybe just a chapter or two ahead.

Do you know how you want the story to end? When all else fails, you can try writing the ending. That might help you figure out how to get there from here.

Finally, I see you have just three favorite authors. It would be time well spent to try to double or triple that list.

Good luck.
 

JamieFord

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Dig deeper.

Emotional turmoil is almost always more interesting to read about than physical danger. So instead of just going from scene to scene, or danger to danger, think below the surface and add a layer of emotional complexity.

So instead of:

John Doe runs from the volcano.

You have:

John's little brother, who was his best friend, died in a fire. Now John has an irrational fear of being burned. Just the thought of a volcano, even a dormant one, makes his palms sweat.

That kind of thing...
 

Straka

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Sub plots give the book depth head up the tension of the work. Also is a great way to play the characters in different situations. And adds to the emotional scene as JamieFord says. I think a lot of times people are more anxious if the MC and their love interest will admit their feelings than worrying about their deaths.
 

Phaeal

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Get some conflict going between characters. Get some internal conflict going. Have the characters discovering something pertinent to their ultimate goal as they're traveling. If a section of travel is doing nothing to further character development, or plot development, or really interesting and ideally pertinent milieu development, scrap it. Give us a transition paragraph and get on with the interesting stuff (see above.)
 

maestrowork

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Subplots, adding character development and emotional conflicts/depth, dramatic ironies, suspense (we really don't know what is happening next), etc. -- all great advice. Also, if it's just things happening to characters with no significance or doesn't move the plot forward or develop characters, then summarize the scenes. We don't have to follow the characters everywhere. As the narrator, you need to choose what's relevant to show, and what can be summarized and skipped.

"Things" happening to characters should have impact: they should either propel the characters to do something (the characters shouldn't just stand there saying, "oh, woe be me.") or have consequences -- which also propel the characters to react. And these things should mean something, should be high stakes for the characters. A tornado, though exciting, is "irrelevant" if not for the consequences and damages it do to people's lives.
 
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jdparadise

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Themey stuff!

So let's assume that you know what your story is Really About. It's Really About (say) the fact that who you choose as friends and how you are a friend to them defines who you are as a person.

So in the Big Explosion scene, you have Mane Karracker save her friend Sekkin Derry. Yay!

But what comes as a result of Sekkin's life being saved?

What if Sekkin was trying to take down Evil Corporation by blowing up their headquarters--and what if Mane foiled that? What will -that- do to a friendship?

So Sekkin is now POd at Mane. What happens as a result of that? What if Mane needs Sekkin for the base plot--and Sekkin isn't going to help? But Mane's goal will Save the Universe(tm). It's super important. She can trick Sekkin into playing along... but what kind of a friend does that make her? What's the line at which personal friendships become secondary to the task at hand? How does one judge one's own actions?

Etc., etc. Rambly 'cuz I'm out of time, but hopefully you get what I mean?
 

Feathers

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It sounds like you need to

A) Set this project aside while you go take a breather
B) Get someone to beta-read this draft for you
C) Brainstorm.

I know that sounds really generic, but I've kinda been where you are right now, and it's tricky. You're either too close to your story, so you can't sort it out, or you need to get closer.

Hourglass Memory said:
What should I do if I was to have an outline? What would be the benefit of having one?

Outlining might give you a better vision of what you want to happen in your story, so you can start developing this sense of purpose in your lagging scenes. When I outline I open a notebook and scribble down what's happening in my problem chapters. Then, still on paper, I muse about why they're a problem. I write down the premise of my book, the theme, and the synopsis. I start toying with alternate storylines. I don't so much outline as brainstorm, but for some reason, detailing my story on paper helps more than just thinking about it.

Hourglass Memory said:
If I skip them it’s just insane event after insane event. It just looks unrealistic and too fast for the sort of story I want to write.

I actually just asked about that in this thread. The responses might help you out.

Are your action scenes just part of the story, or do they assist the plot? Meaning are they part of the obstacle course or are they another piece of the puzzle? Here's an example of an obstacle:
Say your city is having political problems. There's been some strikes. Your MCs are running away from Badguy X and they manage to get caught up in a demonstration right as it gets violent. Badguy Enforcers spray the crowds with tear gas. Your MC's duck into an abandoned building. Now they're hiding. Boring. So, Badguy Enforcers burst in after them...

Now, here's how you would make it a puzzle piece:
Your MC's are on an epic quest to save the city from rebellion and tyranny. In a recent talk with Badguy X, he said that the strike is because the unemployment rate has dropped below 48%. When the MC's get caught in the demonstration, they hear people chanting that unemployment is below 78%. Confusion ensues - why would Badguy X lie about the unemployment rate? Did he really know it was this bad? What if - gasp - he's not the actual badguy, after all? If he's not, who is? What if the badguy evidence now points at the MC's trusted friend - the one supposedly "helping" him out?
Now you're advancing the plot.

Hourglass Memory said:
How would I slow down without boring the reader?

Downtime scenes aren't boring if they reveal something about the characters. Maybe your MC is harboring doubts. Maybe, in the leftover rush of adrenaline, your MC tells her boyfriend that she loves him, but he doesn't respond. Ouch. Use downtime to build emotional conflict. If you the writer are feeling tired after all that action, your characters will feel tired; so how do they deal with that? How does that come out? It sounds like your characters are on some kind of hike - instead of just halving them walk & talk, let them argue, let them be silent. Sometimes silence says just as much as words.

I know that's a lot. I hope it helps. I would strongly suggest you try the beta reader...it sounds like you need a fresh pair of eyes.

-Feathers
 

A. J. Luxton

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I have similar problems. I recommend the book Beginnings, Middles and Ends by Nancy Kress. It has helped me get a handle on things...
 

Raphee

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I know. It makes me feel that my whole story is THIS CLOSE from going down the drain.

I was the same way [still partially am] for the past few months. Then I divided the book into acts 1, 2 and 3. Realised that I had scene upon scene of going nowhere in the middle and did a major surgery by cutting those scenes out.
I also had to change some subplots and elements of the major plot. Now my ending has to change and I am struggling with that.
 

HourglassMemory

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I actually do know where my story ends. I know how I'm going to end it, but the characters' final states, I feel that it doesn't change, possibly because I haven't made them conflicting enough. And I feel that the characters really aren't the sort of people who get into conflicts like that.

the big reason for the quest is something that the reader would be motivated to turn the pages for, but it takes such a long time to achieve that goal, for the readers to get the answer of "will they do it?", that I feel that I need to fill that middle part with a lot of interesting things.

Subplots really was hitting the nail on the head, when people suggested it here.
I'm trying to find stuff that I can generate between characters, make them have different goals and different convictions, but it's not easy when your characters are intelligent scientists who speak the same language of science and reason and that sort of stuff. And as I've said, they're not the type of characters that would start visible entertaining conflicts. Perhaps they're like that, because I'm like that.
 
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