First Draft mutterings

dirtsider · May 6, 2008

Yeah, yeah, I know first drafts are supposed to suck. But my first draft feels like I'm just infodumping so far and very dialogue heavy. Well, actually, it is very dialogue heavy so far. I've been trying to balance things out as I'm going along but I"m still going to have to go back and clean things up on the second pass.

Part of the problem is that the POV MC is a sort of "voice of the audience" character. She's the one who kinda gets thrown into a very weird situation that's way over her head. So she's the one who gets to ask all the stupid questions where I can throw in pieces of the backstory / world history a little at a time.

Any suggestions on how to use that without overwhelming or bogging down the story? On one hand, I feel like I'm moving too fast. On the other I feel like I'm infodumping. I know I'm probably going to have to go back and let her freak out a little more. But I have the feeling that if she leaves the apartment now she'll totally ignore the other MC. lol Can't have that. He's the ones with the answers. Then I'd have to throw something at her to drive her back to see him. Or have him force the issue. Fortunately, the current conversation they're having works if she stays where she is now or runs and returns.

Argh!! First drafts!!

WannabeWriter · May 6, 2008

I'm going through a similar thing right now with my second draft. For stuff that is thrown heavily in there, the thing to do is figure out what are THE most important words to include. No matter how much needs to be said or done, too much can interrupt the flow. So maybe focus on flow, and the right material will follow.

Mel · May 6, 2008

I wouldn't worry about it too much. In fact, I wish I did info dump the first time around, but I have too little background/scenery going on so have to go back and add that later. Seriously, one would think my characters live on a white planet with a white sky and everything around them colorless.

Main thing is to get the story down, after that you can figure out what needs to stay and what can go.

Yeah, it would be nice to find a middle ground.

Andre_Laurent · May 6, 2008

I was just looking through an ms that I worked on about a year ago. I hit 60k and put it on the back burner because it had become so derailed it couldn't be fixed. It sucked...bad. But I like the lead characters and didn't want to just trash it. I worked a new outline for it and started looking through the ms to see what could be salvaged. I thought, OMG there's infodumping from hell! I feel your pain.

Dale Emery · May 6, 2008

dirtsider said:
Any suggestions on how to use that without overwhelming or bogging down the story?

After the first draft, test each infodump against this criterion: Do the MC's questions and the other characters' answers affect the MC's immediate decisions and actions in her struggle to solve the story problem? If so, keep them. Otherwise, toss them.

That rule is absolute than I usually like, so relax it if you need to. But -- and here's an absolute to hold onto -- question each temptation to relax it.

During the first draft, whenever you feel a twinge about an infodump (or anything else), insert a "note to self" into the manuscript -- the briefest possible note that will ease the twinge. Then keep writing, infodumps and all.

Dale

windyrdg · May 6, 2008

Don't stress over first drafts. If need be, tell yourself, "This is just a first draft, it doesn't matter." Once you have evrything in there, you'll have the luxury of decideing what gets tossed overboard. I don't think info dumps per se are all bad. What you don't want to do is have a character ask as three-word question and the MC give a six paragraph reply. I like to keep dialog short...three or four sentences max. and move back and forth quickly.

Matera the Mad · May 6, 2008

In a way, a first draft can be an info-dump to yourself. You have to get the stuff out before it dries up in your head. Then you go back and do something with it.

Madison · May 6, 2008

First drafts are awful. That's just life. There'll be golden pockets every so often that nearly make you cry with delight cause they're so good, but for the most part... you'll just be crying.

So don't worry about info dumps and hefty dialogue. Yet. For now, just write.

TrishD · May 6, 2008

I'm currently revising my YA novel for my editor. This draft is so far away from my first draft that it's like I'm writing a whole new book. So don't sweat the first draft.

David I · May 7, 2008

Some first drafts suck, but, contrary to popular opinion, not all of them.

But first drafts that are good are likely to be painful to produce.

You can take your pain now or take your pain later. It's like pulling off a band-aid--rip it off or peel it slowly, it's still gonna hurt. So it really boils down to your particular personality and what works for you.

WittyandorIronic · May 7, 2008

I like how you phrased that David I.
I know my own draft is sucking... to the point I feel guilty about updating my word count because I know how much of it is crap. lol. But as long as it works out in the end, I can take it. Good Luck, and just keep slogging through.

Charlie Horse · May 7, 2008

I live by this quote from Ann Lamott:

Now, practically even better news than that of short assignments is the idea of shitty first drafts. All good writers write them. This is how they end up with good second drafts and terrific third drafts. People tend to look at successful writers who are getting their books published and maybe even doing well financially and think that they sit down at their desks every morning feeling like a million dollars, feeling great about who they are and how much talent they have and what a great story they have to tell; that they take in a few deep breaths, push back their sleeves, roll their necks a few times to get all the cricks out, and dive in, typing fully formed passages as fast as a court reporter. But this is just the fantasy of the uninitiated. I know some very great writers, writers you love who write beautifully and have made a great deal of money, and not one of them sits down routinely feeling wildly enthusiastic and confident. Not one of them writes elegant first drafts.

dirtsider · May 7, 2008

Thanks, folks! This is the reason why I like coming to this site.

I think part of the reason why I'm frustrated is that it's very dialogue heavy and I know it. Maybe because I tend to "listen" to the dialogue more when watching TV or reading a book. It's the interaction between people that first catches my attention.

And it's not as infodump-y as I first thought as it is very wordy. I definitely have to go back and figure out how much I'm going to keep once I work out the rest of the story. It's definitely not one short question to six paragraphs of answer. It's the POV MC prompting the second MC to talk through a bad spot. He was reminded of something that happened years before and she reacts to how upset he is about it. I want to keep parts of it in there because it introduces the whole sense of danger and creepiness of later situations. It does show, in a sense, how people are affected by something they don't understand/respect.

Charlie Horse · May 7, 2008

dirtsider said:
Thanks, folks! This is the reason why I like coming to this site.

I think part of the reason why I'm frustrated is that it's very dialogue heavy and I know it. Maybe because I tend to "listen" to the dialogue more when watching TV or reading a book. It's the interaction between people that first catches my attention.

And it's not as infodump-y as I first thought as it is very wordy. I definitely have to go back and figure out how much I'm going to keep once I work out the rest of the story. It's definitely not one short question to six paragraphs of answer. It's the POV MC prompting the second MC to talk through a bad spot. He was reminded of something that happened years before and she reacts to how upset he is about it. I want to keep parts of it in there because it introduces the whole sense of danger and creepiness of later situations. It does show, in a sense, how people are affected by something they don't understand/respect.

One of the more prominent members of this site states that she writes dialogue then fills in the rest later, or something of that nature. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Phaeal · May 7, 2008

You haven't shut up your Inner Editor yet. Get out the gag and handcuffs, prepare the soundproof closet. Then distract him by casually tossing some fresh pages on the floor. While he's bent over ripping them apart, tackle him, apply gag and handcuffs, and stuff him in the closet.

If you do this often enough, he'll eventually learn to behave.

dirtsider · May 7, 2008

Phaeal said:
You haven't shut up your Inner Editor yet. Get out the gag and handcuffs, prepare the soundproof closet. Then distract him by casually tossing some fresh pages on the floor. While he's bent over ripping them apart, tackle him, apply gag and handcuffs, and stuff him in the closet.

If you do this often enough, he'll eventually learn to behave.

Yeah, I need to get the soundproof closet ready now. In my defense, it's been far too long since I sat down and wrote. (Although I never stopped reading. Even then, I'm picking out mistakes.)

dirtsider · May 9, 2008

Well, I did a compromise. The two MC's departed on friendly terms although the POV MC is still freaked and will continue to be freaked for a few more days. They're going to be very skittish around each other because she's learned something about him that he's never told anyone else. But eventually she'll make up with him.

Funny thing is, I initially wanted her to be the "normal" person in the situation. But instead, the other MC reveals a little info about her that I wasn't expecting. And it works!! Yay. I feel so writerly.

cameronbelle · May 9, 2008

Sometimes, when I'm writing a first draft and I've got a line or a paragraph that grates on me as a blatantly awful but serviceable place holder and I want to get it down and move forward (but I've got that internal editor yelling at me about how there must be a better way to put it), I change the color to purple or something else glaring. It helps me give myself permission to just get it down and move on, because I know that when I go back, it's flagged for replacement.

I don't use this to put down *bad* writing so much as the hotel lobby is grand and shiny and expensive looking and really classy or perhaps a paragraph of MC infodumping about the hierarchy of her organization. On second draft, I might swap out the hotel description with pink marble columns and other descriptive specifics, or redistribute the infodump throughout the chapter, but this way I feel safer getting it down without worrying that I'll "forget" to decrapify it.

Calla Lily · May 12, 2008

Aarrgghh...

I printed out the first 68 pages because I always edit by hand. As I'm reading at my kid's soccer game, I get this nagging feeling that the words "smile" or "smiled" appear way too much.

I just used the handy-dandy "find" feature to search the WIP--and "smile" or "smiled" appear 23 times in 20K words!

#!%#$@! For now I'm just highlighting them and I'll edit again later.

:headdesk:

mario_c · May 12, 2008

Charlie Horse said:
One of the more prominent members of this site states that she writes dialogue then fills in the rest later, or something of that nature. I don't see anything wrong with that.

That's how I do; the snips and ideas that I associate with the story, I type them in and type TODO paragraphs between them. I can stare at these later and wish I had an idea of what to write.
A lot of these TODOs can also be slugs (scene headers with location, for non-screenplay peops) which gives a sort of map to where the action is going. You can rearrange them later, so if you have three plot threads at once you just write and chop into place after the fact. For the novel I'm working on I get descriptive with my TODOs; I don't have a problem of not knowing where I'm going with the story.

I should have that luxury all the time.

dirtsider · May 13, 2008

I think I'm doing my first draft in a really odd way. I've joined a writer's group and the only thing I have to work with so far is this first draft. Doesn't help to silence the Inner Editor but it is helping me learn how to craft my story. Like last night - I read what I had so far. Besides the pats on the back and reassurances that "yes, your writing's good", they gave me pointers of what didn't work for them. Apparently, I jumped into the story too late. My opening scene should be later on in the story and I should flesh out who my current MC's are and their little niche of the world. Translation: not enough exposition!! At least in the beginning. Oh, well. I'll think a bit more on that as I have a better idea of where I want to go with the current section.

First Draft mutterings

dirtsider

Not so new, really

WannabeWriter

Mel

Never be completely back to normal.

Andre_Laurent

Dale Emery

is way off topic

windyrdg

New kid, be gentle!

Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint

Madison

summertime...

TrishD

David I

WittyandorIronic

Charlie Horse

Speaking in metaphors

dirtsider

Not so new, really

Charlie Horse

Speaking in metaphors

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

dirtsider

Not so new, really

dirtsider

Not so new, really

cameronbelle

Calla Lily

On hiatus

mario_c

Your thoughts are not real...

dirtsider

Not so new, really