Mary Sue

Older thread: What's a "Mary Sue" character? (aka Marty Stu, Gary Stu)

-Derek

Lol, you guys. A mary-sue is a character that lacks any sort of flaw, and is just there for the author's wish fufillment. The author puts too much of himself into that character.(It is okay, to put yourself into your characters, but don't go overboard.) A character that's too perfect can sometimes be boring for the reader.

The best method I can think of for avoiding them is not make your characters too perfect compared to other characters in the story and in the world he/she lives in. Give him a flaw, (I can't sing won't count.) What makes him the same compared to the reader and how is he different as a character. Don't make him the best at everything. The reader needs to relate to a character in order to sympathize with him, but they can't sympathize with a perfect character.

Give your villians some redeeming qualities too or else they'll be as 2D as an evil Mary Sue. Dressing well doesn't count. :}

HeronW said:

Give your villians some redeeming qualities too or else they'll be as 2D as an evil Mary Sue. Dressing well doesn't count. :}

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Agreed.

I forgot to add: Don't add elements in your story just to serve the characters purpose. And don't step in to add silly elements to save your character's from danger.(Ex. A character is battling the dragon, and the dragon is winning, but suddenly a lightning strikes a large tree and falls over the monster's neck.)

2.) Make sure you know the difference between what the character wants to do(I'm insane.) and what you want your characters to do.

3.) Give your other characters a chance to shine too. Just because they are minor or supporting characters doesn't mean they can't get the spotlight. The readers would want to learn and sympathize with them as well. Try not to make your character sound like a selfish movie star.

Dwayne,

Start thinking of your character with flaws first. That's usually easiest. Then work outward. I've read in a number of places the more flaws a character has, the more interesting he is to write about.

There's a a couple of good articles about this here, and here.

LOL, after reading Wikipedia's long list of different variations of Mary Sues, I'm convinced every single character every created by any author fits in some category or another.

Man, I had no idea there were so many rules, cliches, and contradiction in writing! It makes my brain throb a little...

Sorry this is so OT, but at the bottom of the Mary Sue wikipedia page is a link to this. People are so weird! lmao. Yay for kids rocking out to music and books, but WOW. That is a level of fandom I never knew existed.

Back OT:
I think the wiki even mentions that Bono is a classic Mary Sue. It is more of a guideline to gauge whether or not you are creating realistic characters. Perfect = kinda boring, unless you are Bono. Even then, I don't know if I would want to read a book about his perfectness. That would probably break my already short attention span.

Well, according to some people I've read, the Mary Sue is kind of a first stab at writing (or storytelling; I kept a lot of my teenage Sues safely in my head. Where they will stay). So if you find yourself turning out Mary Sues, don't condemn yourself; just stick the story in the drawer and try something different.

That being said—you can go on a massive and entertaining scavenger hunt from the links on the wikipedia site. But peculiarly, I didn't see any of the essays or quizzes mention the concept of informed attributes.

Let me explain—no, there is too much. Let me sum up. An informed attribute is a characteristic that we never actually witness; we're just told the character has it. For example, in a B movie (the term comes from bad movie connesieurs—and I know I didn't spell that right) we might be told that the female lead is a supergenius scientist, but she acts consistently dim. (The better for Manly McHeropants to rescue her, of course.)

A Mary Sue's informed attribute is "wonderful." What makes them so wonderful, aside from unusual eye and/or hair color? Well . . . hard to say. Often, the author gives them extraordinary insight or exactly the right powers to save the day, but it's so obviously author favoritism that most people just roll their eyes. In the worst cases, a Mary Sue can act downright psychopathic with no consequences, because—well—they're Mary Sue. (I don't generally read fanfic, but I suspect a lot of writers take this route with Wolverine.) If the Mary Sue does it, it's automatically wonderful. The rest of the cast falls over themselves to worship at Mary Sue's feet (or get into their pants), the author plainly thinks they're the best thing since chocolate—and the reader, usually, refuses to play and finds something else to read.

Because the author likes his or her creation so much, the Mary Sue will either be portrayed as flawless or as having "good" flaws. For instance, "too compassionate" or "too honorable" are classic good flaws, especially if they never actually hurt the character. Mary Sues rarely face any convincing threats; you sense that if they did, the author would write a dragon or a space dreadnaught or (insert genre-appropriate thing) into the scene to prevent them from actually mussing their hair. Because they're wonderful. By definition.

It's worth noting that some of my favorite characters are a bit larger than life, perhaps even with some classic Mary Sue traits, but the authors have managed to miss Mary Suedom and hit (at least in my opinion) awesome. There's no single trait that makes a character a Mary Sue, or prevents them from becoming one. It's about the overall effect.

Hope that helps,

Izunya

HeronW said:

Give your villians some redeeming qualities too or else they'll be as 2D as an evil Mary Sue. Dressing well doesn't count. :}

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C.S. Lewis once commented that great sinners and great saints were both made of the same material. Even if you're not a Christian, there's something to ponder there. Sometimes great virtues can make villains more effective. For example, Hannibal Lecter may be a canibalistic psychopath, but he's also intelligent, polite, cultured, perseverant, and has his own sense of honor. And he's all the more terrible for it. You could imagine a slightly different Hannibal as a hero, couldn't you?

The surest sign you're dealing with a potential Mary Sue is, indeed, unusual hair and eye color. Violet eyes are a dead giveaway, followed by green eyes. Probably the most Mary Sueish hair color is platinum. Other metallics, like gold or copper, are also popular. A natural green or blue is not impossible, in some fandoms or genres.

Another Mary Sueism that connects her to her nineteenth century forebears is her tendency to die at the end of the story, leaving all those who love her in awe of her noble sacrifice and drowning in their tears.

Phaeal said:

The surest sign you're dealing with a potential Mary Sue is, indeed, unusual hair and eye color. Violet eyes are a dead giveaway, followed by green eyes. Probably the most Mary Sueish hair color is platinum.

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Hey! That reminds me of anime!

And in real life you can have green eyes

I agree with the links and comments posted. I first heard the term in fanfiction but I've used and heard it used to describe all sorts of characters. I also read a fanfic that definitely had a mary sue for the MC. The character automatically won every single physical altercation, despite being a petite beautiful female with long raven ebony locks and pouty red lips, and never got sick despite nights spent out in the rain sleeping on rocks. Readers can most always tell when a character was created for the author's fulfillment. But it's not always so easy for an author to realize they're doing it, since we as authors want to often love all of our characters. Sometimes it's hard to express their unpleasant attributes.

tomothecat said:

Readers can most always tell when a character was created for the author's fulfillment. But it's not always so easy for an author to realize they're doing it, since we as authors want to often love all of our characters. Sometimes it's hard to express their unpleasant attributes.

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I'd like to know how I, as a reader could tell it's for the author's fufillment, or too much author interference and insertion. I know HP has some of those qualities, but it took me a while to figure that out.

BlueLucario said:

I'd like to know how I, as a reader could tell it's for the author's fufillment, or too much author interference and insertion. I know HP has some of those qualities, but it took me a while to figure that out.

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I think the best example I can give is Anita Blake (look up Laurell K. Hamilton on Amazon.) I noticed that as the books progressed Ms. Hamilton's pictures started looking more and more like the way she describes Anita. There is also the classic "men fall at her feet to be with her" Mary Sueism. Actually, read any of the books after Obsidian Butterfly. She's the best example I can give of answering this question, and they're a quick read.

Being able to tell the difference just comes from doing a TON of reading. You'll notice when a character is so good it grabs you and won't let go. This will stick enough in your mind that you will notice when a character is in "god-mode" (as I like to call it). Chances are, if a character is in "god-mode" it is because these are the wishes of the author and are not for the sake of the story.

I hope that helped!

Basically, when it seems as though the plot could head one way, but the author forces it another way. Like okay, for me this was what ruined The Lovely Bones. We had a MC who was murdered in the first chapter, and the story became about loss and hardship. And then, for no reason AT ALL, the ghost of the murdered girl possessed the body of her friend and had hot steamy shower sex with some guy. Did this make sense? No. Was it unnatually ideal? Sure, if you're into that. Anyway, the author was a woman who had been raped herself, and I got an overwhelming sense that she wrote that steamy scene just to make herself feel better. Because, IMHO, it ruined the plot beyond repair. And it did nothing for the story. Although I guess that's more of a mary sue situation, not a character flaw.

BlueLucario said:

I'd like to know how I, as a reader could tell it's for the author's fufillment, or too much author interference and insertion. I know HP has some of those qualities, but it took me a while to figure that out.

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The Mary Sue Song

Oh where have you been, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Oh where have you been, charming Mary?
I have been to a con,
Many writers tried me on,
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Do they write very well, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Do they write very well, tell me Mary?
No, they couldn't spell shit,
And if you tell them they have fits.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Can they punctuate a quote, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Can they punctuate a quote, tell me Mary.
No, they haven't got a clue,
And the breaks will whiplash you.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Are they writing just for fun, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Are they writing just for fun, tell me Mary.
No, they do it for the praise,
And their minds are in a daze.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Will they ever get it right, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Will they ever get it right, tell me Mary.
When there's mammoths in the sky,
And the pigs have learned to fly.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Do they ever write in verse, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Do they ever write in verse, tell me Mary?
Yes they do and it's pure hell,
They rhyme and scan just like they spell.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Can they hold a point of view, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Can they hold a point of view, tell me Mary?
No, they head-hop like mad fleas,
And their characters are cheese.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

Are their plots well organized, Mary Sue, Mary Sue?
Are their plots well organized, tell me Mary?
If you like spaghetti soup,
You will thrive on fan-fic goop.
I'm the star of a
Never-ending story.

~ originally posted at http://ecfans.com/forums/

Don't forget about Ayla, from Clan of the Cave Bear. She's so perfect, she'll burn your retinas.

Also, it's too bad about green eyes. *sigh* I've got green eyes. . . . Silly Sues.

As long as your eyes aren't emerald green, we can accept you as a 'uman bean. Just don't invent fire or ride a tiger or something.

Or moss green. Or the green-of-a-deep-sea-on-a-crystal-night.

And never say emerald orbs, because, yanno, green eyes? Works just fine.

I tend to think we get over-critical of Mary Sues to the point where people are trying so hard to write a character that has no possible sue traits that they end up writing unbelievably dull characters. Balance, people. it's a good thing.

Beyondian said:

Or moss green. Or the green-of-a-deep-sea-on-a-crystal-night.

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[FONT=&quot]"Containing three greens in striation – apple-green, jade-green, celadon – the girl’s eyes were beseeching." -- The Taking, Dean Koontz.
[/FONT]

Dean Koontz can get away with it. But not Kelly green.

I hate Mary Sue characters. I don't care who the author is: Mary Sue characters can die for all I care. Goodness me! Reading about them in Flavia Bujor's book the Prophecy of the Stones was sickening enough already. It was especially sick when one of the characters "died" but was still beautiful even while she died.