Spacing within chapters when shifting characters.
- Thread starter billyf027
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Space breaks can be used for this purpose. ACEnders' marking works fine, but I use the more traditional centered hash.
Like so.
#
Like so.
I don't jump POVs within a chapter. I create another chapter. But I do use the ### thing to delineate another scene within a chapter.
Is the ### really what I should be using? I'd never read that anywhere, but it's easy enough to change.
I put an additional space or two, plus the centered *** or ###. This could indicate either a POV switch or just a new scene, same POV.
I also try to identify the POV character in the first sentence of the new section, whether switched or not.
I also try to identify the POV character in the first sentence of the new section, whether switched or not.
I see it as one person's ### is another person's ***. I use ***. I got it from somewhere as a delineation between scenes within a chapter.
I try not to shift POV within a chapter (otherwise I get wacked by the editor), but if I do, I only do it once and the format I'm required to fit within is two blank lines and the symbol "~ * ~". It probably various across publishers but you need something to highlight the shift or you'll confuse the reader.
I read in Uncle Jim's thread that # is an instruction to the typesetter for a hard linespace. Inserting asterisks in these linespaces or other places will be the publishers' choice.
In the draft I will be submitting, I restrict one POV to a chapter. This results in more, shorter chapters than I would have liked, and may change when the publisher reviews it, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
In the draft I will be submitting, I restrict one POV to a chapter. This results in more, shorter chapters than I would have liked, and may change when the publisher reviews it, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
For the editing process when submitting, ex:
....end of POV or scene here.
#
new POV or scene change here...
the # indicates a line space to be put in during typesetting which is a visual indication of POV or scene change. Chapter change is indicated by new heading, named and or numbered, usually on a new page.
....end of POV or scene here.
#
new POV or scene change here...
the # indicates a line space to be put in during typesetting which is a visual indication of POV or scene change. Chapter change is indicated by new heading, named and or numbered, usually on a new page.
I don't think it really matters what you use (he says, wary of touching off a holy war between the asterisk people and the hash people 
) so long as you're consistent in your usage.
I think convention is to try and avoid POV shifts, but as scene shifts occur within chapters in my own work, it does sometimes happen. I just do a hard return (that extra space) as this is usually what I see in the books I read.
As an editor, the # is a typesetter's symbol, and as such probably in danger of extinction anyway. So if you're of a mind to save an endangered species, use that.
) so long as you're consistent in your usage.I think convention is to try and avoid POV shifts, but as scene shifts occur within chapters in my own work, it does sometimes happen. I just do a hard return (that extra space) as this is usually what I see in the books I read.
As an editor, the # is a typesetter's symbol, and as such probably in danger of extinction anyway. So if you're of a mind to save an endangered species, use that.
Just being picky here, but on # means one extra space, which is what you want. ### means three extra space, which is too much.
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Well, hell, my character POV switches back and forth in a couple of chapters, and in one case line by line. I don't know that I could change that without changing the scenes entirely. Something tells me that I'm going to get slapped around by an editor, should I be lucky enough to get one.
You're undoubtedly right, Jamie. Just reacting from my days editing a magazine. All this stuff is trivia.
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The asterisks are just fine. It's not a standard copyeditor's layout mark, but neither are three hash marks. So do whatever feels right to you. The book designers will put in whatever they decide to put in--asterisks or an ornament or just extra space.
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I usually see a blank line to signify a change of scene/POV, or three asterisks if the break comes at the first or last lines of the page.
The only important thing is to let the editor and typesetter know that you want space(s) inserted between a pair of paragraphs. You can't do that by putting in an empty line (or lines) because as editing takes place those empty lines may end up at the top or bottom of a page.
All the publisher needs to know is that you want a break in the text. In the published version, this might be one line, two, or three, or might include some cunning little dingbat the designer wants to put there. This isn't really your business, and whether you put # or * or ### or *** or (as I do, for emphasis) * * *, your editor will interpret that as "break here." The style of the break, like the font of the book, is up to them.
I break between scenes in a chapter.
I also break between points of view in a chapter, if the chapter switches POV; but some very good writers don't always do so. (Larry McMurtry, Ann Patchett, Patrick O'Brian.)
And many, many bad writers don't break between POV changes.
All the publisher needs to know is that you want a break in the text. In the published version, this might be one line, two, or three, or might include some cunning little dingbat the designer wants to put there. This isn't really your business, and whether you put # or * or ### or *** or (as I do, for emphasis) * * *, your editor will interpret that as "break here." The style of the break, like the font of the book, is up to them.
I break between scenes in a chapter.
I also break between points of view in a chapter, if the chapter switches POV; but some very good writers don't always do so. (Larry McMurtry, Ann Patchett, Patrick O'Brian.)
And many, many bad writers don't break between POV changes.
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Space is not at all adequate. First, a change in overall formatting can wipe it out. The asterisks (or hashmarks) are a sure thing. Also a BIG help when you need to find a certain place when editing
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