Advice on finding quality critique/feedback sources

[aes25]

I am more of a lurker than a poster, but alas...


My problem is: I essentially know nobody who writes or has an interest in writing. All my friends are engineer/business/law types, which suits me just fine. Unfortunately, now that I am fresh out of school, I am at a bit of a loss as to where to turn for feedback/criticism.

Where would be a good place to look, or start looking, for some sort of critique/feedback outlet? I suppose a "writers crit group" qualifies. Where does one go about finding such a group local to one's area? Are there local ads, flyers, etc.?

I should state that "How-To-Write-A-Novel" books and "How-To-Get-Published" seminars don't interest me. Moreover, I'm a little wary about crit groups, for only one reason: my experiences with college writing classes were mixed. My professors were insightful and unquestionably helped me raise my level of writing, but my fellow classmates outside one or two exceptions were, understandably, less helpful. So I'm a little unsure about the merits of a "writers crit group" without such a guide/teacher/mentor type.

Any avenue you could point me toward would be appreciated..

[katiemac]

Absolutewrite has a 'Share Your Work' forum (just find it on the pull down menu, or start at the Water Cooler page) where you can post a excerpt. Quite a few people (myself included) frequent that board and most of the time you can end up with some very insightful and helpful comments.

If you're looking for something more long-term for someone to critique your whole novel, you post under the mentoring board here or something similar. Sometimes, if you find you like someone's posting style, you can see if they're interested by dropping a PM. This method is a bit unlikely, considering many people are very busy. First though, I'd warn that, in the case someone agrees, you should both agree upon some crit. guidelines before reading through the work.

Finally, wordmountain.com is a service fronted by a couple of AW members. I know Uncle Jim also offers an editing service, so you can check his website for more details if you're interested in that.

These are just a few ideas; I know there are lots of other writers here who belong to online crit. groups, so hopefully they'll be able to drop you some more names.

[azbikergirl]

critters.org
writerbuddy.com
critiquecircle.com
hatrack.com

are all share-your-work/critique-swapping group sites. If you do SF/F/H, also look at http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/ (but that one costs $$)

Edit: The problem with crit groups is that you don't always get paired with people who have any understanding of what constitutes a good story or good writing. However, sometimes you do -- and their advice can be invaluable. Try a few and see how it works -- that's the only way to know for sure!

[Note On]

my fellow classmates outside one or two exceptions were, understandably, less helpful.

Can you rope those one or two exceptions into a group?

I've been in two writers' groups. The most successful, I think, was the one in which we hand-picked people to invite. I knew lots of writers and wannabe-writers, but maybe the principle could still apply. Figure out who you want in the group and go get them.

After I left the second group, I put together a set of suggestions as to how to run a group, once you manage to get one together. For what it's worth:

http://www.journalscape.com/keithsnyder/2003-08-24-00:45

[BlueTexas]

Check out the announcements section of the newspaper, or local 'shopper free mag' type thing if you live in a large city. Go to the library and ask a librarian.

The library is how I found a crit group. It didn't work out for me, but at least they were there.

[Maryn]

aes, I've had less-than-great results with online critique, enough so that I can't recommend it. For me, the problem seems to be finding critics who are familiar with my genre and know how to critique. While some goofs can be spotted by anybody who writes, someone who's well-read in cozy mysteries or westerns isn't going to give a fantasy writer, for example, critique as useful as that from another fantasy writers. The ideal critique group has a fairly narrow focus, although its members may write outside that focus, too.

There's also the matter of qualifications. The people at this site tend to be highly professional and know their stuff, but a lot of people who critique online seem to lack the skills to do it adequately. You see everything from 'correcting' something that was correct until it isn't to criticism of the writer instead of the work.

There's also a level of difficulty some good critics are unwilling to face in critiqueing cyber-work rather than on paper. Some first-rate critics can't use their computers well but could be enormously helpful if you handed over a paper copy. Certain kinds of critique markings don't lend themselves to anything but paper.

Luckily, you live in a major metropolitan area, big enough that I bet you can not only find a serious critique group but can find one limited to your own genre. Things to try:

Flyers are a rarity--but what's to stop you from making and distributing your own?
Ads in the paper's want-ads, whether it's a big daily, local to your town/suburb, or a shopping, entertainment, or underground paper.
The library--inquire at any branch you can reach, not just your favorite.
Google chicago + writers or writing (I saw 2 listings that might be critique groups)
Get in touch with the former classmates who could critique. Even if they've left the area, they might be interested in exchanging work for critique by mail.
Reach out to your former professors, who probably see a few decent critics every semester and could put you in touch.
Figure out who's who here. Got someone whose input is invariably solid, especially at Share Your Work? Get in touch.
Although you're reluctant to take writing classes, they're a rich source of critique group members. They're self-selected, for one thing, limited to writers who care enough about it to pay for a class, attend, and do the work. You often get to see the quality of their writing ahead of time, and depending on the nature of the class, you may even get a feel for how each one critiques. Collect emails and phone numbers, and use only the ones you think would be good in a critique group. (It doesn't matter if you leave somebody out.)

Let us know how it goes and what works for you.

Maryn, in a critique group for many years (we're all published now)

[Nateskate]

Find some Beta Readers- friends you know that love to read in your Genre. Also, some times you can find a lit Prof, or perhaps one that has some good students who would critique your work.


Other writers? I think you have to look at it this way. You have an up side and a down side. The upside is that they may actually have the best advice based upon experience. However, you also have them interpreting your work through their voice, meaning, "How I would have done it if I were them..." or "Would I have done it period."

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I hated the rock group K.I.S.S. I didn't even try to "get them". Yet, there was a tremendous market for their music. And sometimes "artists", (I was a guitarist/songwriter) listen/read/view with a standard that is much different than the actual public.

But as a guitarist, writer, I thought everything they did was trite. But there was a market for trite, because people liked the energy and showmanship. So, what do I know about what will sell? That's not the point. So, if you get criticism by other writers, you have to keep it in perspective unless they are your agent/publisher's editor.

[Christine N.]

If you write SF/H/F, I can't recommend Critters enough. Not only is the groups operator, Andrew Burt, a great guy, but he helped write Atlanta Nights! LOL. Seriously, I got great crits from them, and they have a program for people to do whole novels. I was lucky to have a volunteer who was fabulous and gave great feedback.

I honestly don't think my book would be getting published without them. I'm even thanking them in my acknowledgements. Yes, I'm that grateful.

[authorernieroy]

Good evening aes25;

I am knew to this forum, but not new to writing. I do editorial work for new and aspiring writers at below professional rates. My website can be seen at:

http://authorernieroy.bravehost.com

I also do critiquing and evaluation services. Feel free to stop by the site and maybe I can be of some help.

God bless and good writing,

Ernie

[Diviner]

[QUOTE=aes25]


Where would be a good place to look, or start looking, for some sort of critique/feedback outlet? I suppose a "writers crit group" qualifies. Where does one go about finding such a group local to one's area? Are there local ads, flyers, etc.? /[QUOTE=aes25]



You do not say what you want critique for. I assume it is a novel, because of this thread, but what genre? (Mine is historical fiction.)

I have received good cyber crits from folks who do not write in my genre, but those who do are even more helpful. I disagree that those who give good feedback have to be good writers. Far more important is that they be good readers. If they are smart and sensitive, so much the better.

I belong to two writing groups, one of which is interested in writing literary fiction, and the other of which is interested in improving all kinds of writing. The second group gives even more valuable feed back than the first, mostly because they are less tolerant.

My problem with the net crit groups I have looked at is the uneveness of the submissions. It is hard to give a fair critique to someone who starts with a false premise or obvious storyline and then beats it to death. It is not my nature to wish to cause pain, but it is my nature to be honest, so I feel put upon when a story has neither grace nor substance.

I found my local writing groups through the local paper and then through personal reference. If I were you, I would not hesitate to go to a community college creative writing class just to meet your local pipeline. You might also look on the bulletin boards of your bookstores or just get into conversations with folks who hang out there, including the owners and clerks.

Good luck!