American Short Fiction / Badgerdog Literary Publishing, Inc.

snowdog · Aug 29, 2010

Hi folks,

Here's the site:

http://www.americanshortfiction.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7

What can folks tell me about this place? There's this bit:

We have recently switched to online submissions. To help defray the administrative costs of this new system, we ask that our submitters pay a submission fee of $2 per story. Submitters should visit our publisher's online store to pay the submission fee. When the transaction is complete, submitters will be directed to our Submission Manager, where they can upload their stories.

Should writers have to pay a fee to submit stories online?

OneWriter · Aug 29, 2010

Two dollars seems very reasonable to me. Besides, if you were to mail your manuscript, you'd probably spend around that amount in envelope and postage. They have high quality fiction. Unfortunately, haven't had much luck with my submissions so far...

Freelancer · Aug 29, 2010

Hmmmm. General question. Why should I pay to them or anyone to give them a chance to read and publish my own works? It's not reasonable at all. Writing is not working on this way. Personally I don't really care if they're publishing high quality fiction. Writers used to get paid by the publisher and not the writers are paying for the publisher to read and maybe publish the work.

If you desperately seek hope in the name you'll be published fast, pay those 2 bucks rapidly and send your works continuously. But there is a great chance you never going to see your work being published. And not because your work sucks. It's because of their business plan.

If you want to see your work published, open a blog and publish there instead. At least you don't have to pay for it blindly and you can keep the overall control over your work.

+1 one site to my blacklist. This is a typical "Feed on the naive, hope seeking writer" site.

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Aug 29, 2010

I know $2 doesn't sound much, but this is an online submission. Why are they asking for anything? Doesn't make any sense.

snowdog · Aug 29, 2010

I'm wi-fi-ing from Barnes & Noble in New York City, where I came across this magazine. I was suspicious of that submission fee from the start-it's completely different from submitting a work via snail-mail (postage fees). There are other places that don't charge a submisson fee: why this one?

Edited to add: I see this magazine in Barnes & Noble all the time, as well as other bookstores.

Freelancer · Aug 29, 2010

Doesn't make any sense

It does. For them. Pay 2USD, then they send you a reject, but encouraging you to send something else, which might being published. You want to grab your hope, you pay 2USD again as you send your next work. Then they send you a reject. Again. You've already paid 4USD for nothing, you got nothing, but they have already 4USD. Nice business plan. Now multiply this 2USD with 1000 naive writers and that's 2000USD already.

Geez. I hate these type of businesses.

snowdog · Aug 29, 2010

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:
I know $2 doesn't sound much, but this is an online submission. Why are they asking for anything? Doesn't make any sense.

Totally agreed. $2 here and there starts to add up-and writers are usually anything BUT rich. And when money is tight-you think twice about how you spend those $2.

IceCreamEmpress · Aug 29, 2010

OneWriter said:
Two dollars seems very reasonable to me.

How? This isn't an entry fee for a contest where prizes will be awarded--this is a way for them to fund their operational expenses by making submitters pay.

Besides, if you were to mail your manuscript, you'd probably spend around that amount in envelope and postage.

But that money would go to the post office, not to the magazine. Why does it cost a magazine money to read submissions? That should be built in as part of the basic operating expenses by anyone who knows what they're doing.

Don't pay to play.

snowdog · Aug 29, 2010

I'm going to make a little admission...

Usually, when I come to this Barnes & Noble, I do the following: get magazines, sit down with them, write down info from the mastheads and then search their submission guidelines-afterwards buying them if things look good and they check out here at Absolute Write. This time, I bought the magazine first-it had some decent work in it. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Why? Because when I sat down with my netbook at the cafe and looked "American Short Fiction" up, lo and behold-they had a submission fee-which set off alarms and a feeling that I boned myself by buying this magazine ($10).

But I did manage to turn the lemon into lemonade. I knew there was no way I could get a refund, so I instead asked if I could trade "American Short Fiction" for a paperback novel. So, I exchanged it for Neil Gaiman's "American Gods". He is an EXCELLENT writer, and I'm going to see about trying to do some reading tonight.

Live and learn, I guess. Next time, I'm sticking with my original method of doing things.

augusto · Aug 29, 2010

Ploughshares and Missouri Review now charge $3 per submission. There are plenty of wonderful magazines out there that don't charge. I'll send to those who don't.

snowdog · Aug 29, 2010

Thanks for the responses folks! They are greatly appreciated.

IceCreamEmpress · Aug 29, 2010

August said:
Ploughshares and Missouri Review now charge $3 per submission.

Ew. That's disappointing. I hope this doesn't become the norm--it is so inappropriate IMO.

Mr. Anonymous · Aug 29, 2010

Personally, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to charge a very small reading fee to help off-set operational expenses.

The problem is that this has a great potential for abuse.

Still, I don't think there's a huge difference between paying a reading fee for a legitimate contest and paying a reading fee for a legitimate magazine.

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Aug 29, 2010

Because a fee for a contest generally goes toward paying for it. A magazine should be making their money from sales, not reading fees.

DancingMaenid · Aug 29, 2010

This is a bit disappointing. I'd been hoping to submit to them at some point, but the fee strikes me as inconvenient. $2 isn't a huge deal to me, but it does strike me as a little odd and since I'm not really set up to pay for stuff online, it would be really inconvenient for me to send payment.

Izz · Aug 30, 2010

IceCreamEmpress said:
Ew. That's disappointing. I hope this doesn't become the norm--it is so inappropriate IMO.

Seconded.

Though it may also be a sign that the literary short form isn't doing so well.

Jamiekswriter · Aug 30, 2010

Just out of curiousity, how much do they pay for a short story?

I looked very quickly and didn't see their payment rates. The submission fee was front and center, but the payment for stories not so much.

If this magazine pays "contributor's copies" then please don't waste your money giving them $2.00 to read your work.

If they pay .02 per word, your 2,500 word story would be $50.00 (well $48.00 less the submission charge) -- and you feel your story will sell, go for it.

I personally think the reading fee is B.S. I think they're trying to make their money off of their slush pile.

James D. Macdonald · Aug 30, 2010

snowdog said:
Should writers have to pay a fee to submit stories online?

No.

Cross them off your list.

Mr. Anonymous · Aug 30, 2010

Because a fee for a contest generally goes toward paying for it. A magazine should be making their money from sales, not reading fees.

That's a fair point, but keep in mind some contests offer publication as the reward for winning. In cases like that, you could easily say the same - shouldn't they make their money back on sales as opposed to reading fees?

IceCreamEmpress · Aug 30, 2010

Mr. Anonymous said:
That's a fair point, but keep in mind some contests offer publication as the reward for winning. In cases like that, you could easily say the same - shouldn't they make their money back on sales as opposed to reading fees?

Yes.

I would not pay a cash fee to enter a contest unless a cash prize were awarded, and I would advise others to take the same stance.

If a magazine can't come up with a workable operating budget, that's their problem to solve, not mine as a potential contributor.

Now, literary journals don't make their money "on sales"--they are generally funded by a university or by grants from foundations, etc. But again, they need to make their operating budgets work without charging the contributors.

CaoPaux · Dec 21, 2011

Reading fee is now $3. Entry fee for their contest is $20.

ETA: Originally run by Univ. of Texas Press, it joined Badgerdog in '06. As of '12, however, it operates as its own (non-profit) entity, American Short Fiction, Inc.

American Short Fiction / Badgerdog Literary Publishing, Inc.

snowdog

OneWriter

Ubi dubium ibi libertas

Freelancer

M.R.J. Le Blanc

aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan

snowdog

Freelancer

snowdog

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

snowdog

augusto

snowdog

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

Mr. Anonymous

Just a guy with a pen & a delusion

M.R.J. Le Blanc

aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!

Izz

Doing the Space Operatic

Jamiekswriter

USA Today Bestselling Author

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Mr. Anonymous

Just a guy with a pen & a delusion

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

CaoPaux

Mostly Harmless