Troubled. What am I?

Wrider · Jul 23, 2010

Alright, so... this is what I've got going:

I've got three novels tied up with PA right now. Frustrating, but I'm learning to let some things go and look to the future.
I've got another novel that I have self-published (from start to finish, using a printing house, not a self-publishing company).
I also have a children's book that I wrote for the ministry where I work, which they published themselves (their book, but I get the credit as being the author).
I have numerous short stories/articles that will be appearing in several published anthologies (not my own book, but I contributed).
I have appeared and am appearing in my local newspaper often with short stories, poems etc.

I have seen some people who say that a book through PA really doesn't make one a published author at all because in all reality, PA is a vanity press when it really boils down to it. If that's true, then my own self-published novel without an ISBN is even less than that. And even less than that would be my children's book, even though it's got my name on it. And then the pieces in the anthologies and newspapers, well... those would just not even be counted as anything at all.

Right?

Now, I know that PA is a deceitful company and one I'll not do business with again. But because they have a bad name, does that automatically give me one, too? Because they decided to price my book too high, does that mean what I wrote is of little worth?

I'd like to think not.

This is what I wrote on my blog recently as a conclusion to my truthfulness about PA:

According to dictionary.com, to "publish" is to issue for sale or distribution to the public. Therefore, PublishAmerica is a publisher, vanity houses are publishers and self-published authors are indeed published.

I am proud of my achievements and proud of my books, both those through PA and those through other efforts. I am proud that I am an author and I am continually pursuing my writing through more books and various other opportunities. While PublishAmerica is looked down upon by many and often not even accepted in bookstores, my books have still been published and they still are my works that I can hold in my hand, promote and sell like any other books.

Is my logic incorrect?

It's been very hard for me, especially lately, to separate my value from my publisher's value. PA stinks. That's the bottom line. But I still know that I did a good job on my books and that they are well-written and worth my efforts. I'm a good writer, talented and crafting my skills and learning more every day. And just because I didn't want to search for a commercial publisher that would accept my fourth novel does not make it any less a published book because I self-published, does it? Is it available in bookstores? Nope, not at the moment. Online? Through my own store. Advertising? All done by me. But I still have a finished product in hand, and the quality is dang good if I do say so myself. Is this not any different than had I gone through Lulu.com? Yet people will praise authors for choosing Lulu over PA (rightly so, but you see my point).

So am I a published author? Or are my books and the work that was put into them only worth being embarrassed over?

Terie · Jul 23, 2010

Wrider said:
So am I a published author? Or are my books and the work that was put into them only worth being embarrassed over?

In the biz, a publishing credit 'counts' if it was selected for publication by a qualified, independent third-party. That's why self-publishing doesn't count as a publishing credit. Anyone -- good, bad, or indifferent -- can self-publish a book.

But that doesn't mean your self-pubbed books should be something to be embarrassed about. They exist, you're a better writer now than you were then (true of anyone constantly working to improve their craft), and you're now on a different road than you were before.

Don't put self-pubbed credit in queries or bios to agents and commercial publishers; only include items that have been chosen by an independent third-party (it sounds like your anthology stuff will likely qualify for this). But don't be embarrassed about what you have out there, either.

So you got suckered by PA. Lots of people do. As long as you don't call your PA books publishing credits, no one will care that they're out there. That is, they won't reflect badly on you. If an agent or editor googles you and sees them, but sees, too, that you didn't list those as pub credits, there's nothing to worry about.

Just keep looking forward and don't look back. You'll be fine.

DaveKuzminski · Jul 23, 2010

Wrong, the short stories do count. So does the book published by the ministry. So does the work with the newspaper. Some within the industry will not count the PA published works as a credit for you if only because PA doesn't edit them or even get them into actual distribution to the buying public. Remember, you are not the buying public for your own books. Self-purchasing does not count as sales.

Still, you are a published author. Just work harder at avoiding the scams.

Bartholomew · Jul 23, 2010

Wrider said:
Alright, so... this is what I've got going:

I've got three novels tied up with PA right now. Frustrating, but I'm learning to let some things go and look to the future.

I've got another novel that I have self-published (from start to finish, using a printing house, not a self-publishing company).

I also have a children's book that I wrote for the ministry where I work, which they published themselves (their book, but I get the credit as being the author).

I have numerous short stories/articles that will be appearing in several published anthologies (not my own book, but I contributed).

I have appeared and am appearing in my local newspaper often with short stories, poems etc.

I have seen some people who say that a book through PA really doesn't make one a published author at all because in all reality, PA is a vanity press when it really boils down to it. If that's true, then my own self-published novel without an ISBN is even less than that. And even less than that would be my children's book, even though it's got my name on it. And then the pieces in the anthologies and newspapers, well... those would just not even be counted as anything at all.

Right?

Now, I know that PA is a deceitful company and one I'll not do business with again. But because they have a bad name, does that automatically give me one, too? Because they decided to price my book too high, does that mean what I wrote is of little worth?

I'd like to think not.

This is what I wrote on my blog recently as a conclusion to my truthfulness about PA:
According to dictionary.com, to "publish" is to issue for sale or distribution to the public. Therefore, PublishAmerica is a publisher, vanity houses are publishers and self-published authors are indeed published.

I am proud of my achievements and proud of my books, both those through PA and those through other efforts. I am proud that I am an author and I am continually pursuing my writing through more books and various other opportunities. While PublishAmerica is looked down upon by many and often not even accepted in bookstores, my books have still been published and they still are my works that I can hold in my hand, promote and sell like any other books.

Is my logic incorrect?

It's been very hard for me, especially lately, to separate my value from my publisher's value. PA stinks. That's the bottom line. But I still know that I did a good job on my books and that they are well-written and worth my efforts. I'm a good writer, talented and crafting my skills and learning more every day. And just because I didn't want to search for a commercial publisher that would accept my fourth novel does not make it any less a published book because I self-published, does it? Is it available in bookstores? Nope, not at the moment. Online? Through my own store. Advertising? All done by me. But I still have a finished product in hand, and the quality is dang good if I do say so myself. Is this not any different than had I gone through Lulu.com? Yet people will praise authors for choosing Lulu over PA (rightly so, but you see my point).

So am I a published author? Or are my books and the work that was put into them only worth being embarrassed over?

You are a published author. However...

If you DO decide to query agents and look for a commercial publisher, don't mention your PA titles. The people who know what it is will just roll their eyes, and if you mention it with an explanation, you're just putting stuff into a query that doesn't belong.

Your reputation is fine. No one will ever see the PA books (sorry!), and even if they do -- they're just as likely to judge you by the content as anything else.

You should be very proud of your work. Finishing that many books is no small feat.

Marian Perera · Jul 23, 2010

Hi Rachel,

Self-published novels haven't received the quality-control screenings that commercially printed fiction undergoes. Your self-published books may be wonderful, but that's why they don't count as professional credits. Every author believes the quality of their book is good. The question is, does an agent or editor or publisher think so?

That being said, if you self-publish and you're happy with the end result and proud of your books, then that's the most important thing.

Now, I know that PA is a deceitful company and one I'll not do business with again. But because they have a bad name, does that automatically give me one, too? Because they decided to price my book too high, does that mean what I wrote is of little worth?

PA will print a good book just as quickly as a bad one, and condemn both to oblivion. So the fact that a book was released by a vanity press says nothing about the book's worth.

Christine N. · Jul 23, 2010

Yep. The anthologies are your strongest writing credit. If those books are with publishers that had to CHOOSE your story, and then edited it, and they are selling it to readers (not the authors) and you will be paid for it, then you have a winner.

I have a friend who has just two published full-length novels, but about two dozen stories in anthologies. They are very much legitimate credits.

And I wouldn't discount the newspaper credits, either - an editor had to choose them to publish, right? Bingo.

James D. Macdonald · Jul 23, 2010

A) Yes, you're published. And no one can take that away from you.

B) A "publishing credit" is something that you use in a cover letter. If you aren't submitting material to publishers, no worries.

C) Your self-published work might be a publishing credit if it sold a large number in a short time.

D) Your newspaper clips and stories published in third-party anthologies are publishing credits.

Wrider · Jul 23, 2010

Thanks, guys. What everyone said about publishing "credits" helped (versus being generally "published"). That's where the terms were getting crossed in my mind... and probably my ego.

Not really sure which road to take at this point. The anthologies are collections of particular contest winners so I'm not sure those would count as credits, if regarding the guidelines mentioned.

I guess maybe it's just bruised pride when it really comes down to it. I wanted to be proud of my books - well, I can still be proud of them, but I had hoped that they would help me onto something bigger and now... I see that I have to leave them behind in order TO get to something bigger and... it hurts. But I know it's reality.

I see a ton of authors who have made it to commercial publishers and I have no idea how they did it. I know it's always a struggle and probably tomorrow I'll have more "get up and go" than I do tonight. lol But just thinking about it now... I guess I'm not only seeing PA's bad side now, but also seeing what it's done to me. Some great things have come from me having my books in print but...

Maybe I need to sit down and figure out what my goals are - even those are cloudy at this point. I love to write - can't live without it. But not sure where I'm supposed to be at this point or even what I'm supposed to be aiming for. Maybe that would be something for another thread: how to know what one is supposed to aim for.

Anyway, thanks again, and I do thank you all for your honesty. Lots to chew on.

James D. Macdonald · Jul 23, 2010

Wrider said:
I see a ton of authors who have made it to commercial publishers and I have no idea how they did it.

Here's how to do it:

Write your book. Make it the best it can be.

Go to a bookstore. Find books actually on the shelf that are similar to yours. Look on the copyright pages to find the publishers' names and addresses.

Get copies of those publishers' guidelines.

Submit your work to those publishers, following their guidelines to the letter.

If they say "no unagented works," get an agent. Same drill: Find books similar to yours that are actually on the shelves in doors-and-windows bookstores. Find out who agented those books. Get those agents' guidelines and submit your work to them, following their guidelines to the letter.

In the meantime, while all this is going on, write another book.

----

Note: It is in the cover letters to agents and publishers that the question of what is or isn't a publishing credit becomes important. And that's the only place it's important.

Wrider · Jul 23, 2010

Thanks, James. I have done that to find publishers, but not agents. For some reason, attaining an agent has always seemed... I don't know - too far out of reach? For some reason. May seem silly (especially since I've gone directly to the publishers) but somehow the notion got into my head at some point. Are agents listed in books? I guess I never looked.

James D. Macdonald · Jul 23, 2010

Yes, agents are listed in books (for example, Jeff Herman's guide).

Even if you get an offer from a publisher you're going to want an agent to negotiate the contract.

We have an entire forum here on agents and agenting.

Wrider · Jul 23, 2010

Thanks a million. Really appreciate the help. I've learned a lot as I've floundered on my own - but not enough. I'll start checking into a few more options now.

Gillhoughly · Jul 23, 2010

Go to your local library.

Find the section that has all the how-to books on writing.

It is not cheating to make use of them.

I mention cheating because years back my sibling had a conniption fit when she saw me with a "how to" book on writing and a thesaurus.

She had the idea that good writing just *came* to you out of the air and that no actual work or research was required and that it wasn't the done thing to chivvy the creative process along or bother to learn the business.

I decided to not listen to her. She's a sweetheart, but not the sharpest pencil in the box.

Which explains why I'm a paid professional with a bunch of books in stores and she isn't.

You are a writer.

The joy you take from the work is what matters to you.

If you sell the work, that's cake for the icing. Then you can say you're a "professional writer."

But you are a writer, no matter what.

PA is a speed bump. It will shake you, you might pop a tire or screw up the suspension, but you get it fixed and keep moving.

merrihiatt · Jul 23, 2010

What everyone else said (and most likely better than I would have said it!)

Because they decided to price my book too high, does that mean what I wrote is of little worth?

Absolutely not! One of the biggest issues I have with PA is that they mislead people into believing that they read manuscripts and want to publish them based on merit. PA DOES NOT DO THIS. They publish almost anything that is submitted as long as it meets the word count and isn't an obvious sting manuscript.

Rachel, PA may have your books for the moment, but they don't have YOU! Your creativity, your spark, your love of the written word -- these are things PA cannot buy or steal from you.

It seems to me that a slight change in perspective with all this new knowledge about PA that you have now will bring you to an even better position to get your work out there to real publishers who want to get your books in bookstores and sell books to readers.

I think there is less of a stigma about self-publishing than there is about signing with PA. It's almost as if signing with PA labels the writer as someone who couldn't get a contract with a real publisher. That may or may not be true, but if someone signs with PA, they will never know if their writing could have landed them a contract with a real publisher. Signing with PA is easy, in the moment, but it's a hard pill to swallow a few months down the line.

Keep enjoying your writing. PA can never take that away from you.

Marian Perera · Jul 24, 2010

merrihiatt said:
One of the biggest issues I have with PA is that they mislead people into believing that they read manuscripts and want to publish them based on merit. PA DOES NOT DO THIS. They publish almost anything that is submitted as long as it meets the word count and isn't an obvious sting manuscript.

That's one reason PA wasn't recommended as a publisher even before its recent slide into desperate greed.

As Merri said, PA lets writers believe that their books were chosen on merit. That a real publisher picked them for their excellent quality. When writers realize that PA isn't a real publisher the natural response is to toss out the second part of the sentence as well, and conclude that their books are terrible. The fact that they're advised not to mention those books in query letters seems to emphasize that.

But that advice is given to every writer, regardless of the quality of their writing or the merit of their books, and it's basically this: if you're querying agents or editors, know what is a publishing credit and what isn't. It says nothing about whether your books are good or whether those books helped you improve your skills as a writer.

Wrider · Jul 24, 2010

Gillhoughly said:
You are a writer.
The joy you take from the work is what matters to you.
If you sell the work, that's cake for the icing. Then you can say you're a "professional writer."
But you are a writer, no matter what.
PA is a speed bump. It will shake you, you might pop a tire or screw up the suspension, but you get it fixed and keep moving.

Thank you... I have to remind myself of these things. I struggle with confidence sometimes, and that doesn't get along very well in this writing world. You're right - I'm a writer and I need to keep moving despite PA.

merrihiatt said:
PA may have your books for the moment, but they don't have YOU! Your creativity, your spark, your love of the written word -- these are things PA cannot buy or steal from you.

I'm going to have to remember that one, too. Thank you. I've told myself this before but every once in a while I lose sight of it. You're absolutely right.

Thanks again to everyone who has advised and encouraged. I'm glad I'm here and able to learn and glean as much as socialize. Time to switch gears and maybe change directions, but even on a bumpy road, it's not impossible.

kaitie · Jul 24, 2010

Wrider said:
Thanks, James. I have done that to find publishers, but not agents. For some reason, attaining an agent has always seemed... I don't know - too far out of reach? For some reason. May seem silly (especially since I've gone directly to the publishers) but somehow the notion got into my head at some point. Are agents listed in books? I guess I never looked.

I just wanted to say that I always thought the same thing. I always figured I might be able to be published one day, but that finding an agent would be impossible. I also thought my only chance would be at a small press.

Now I'm aiming bigger. I'd like a big publisher, and I'd like an agent to help me negotiate contracts and help me reach those I don't have access to otherwise. It's a tough goal, and my last book didn't really come close to finding an agent, but I've kept at it, and I keep reminding myself that every time I write a book, my skills are improving. I've learned what I can about the industry and query letters and do everything I can to improve my chances.

I think it's important for us not to necessarily aim too low. Try to be confident in your work. Do everything you can to make it as good as possible, and you're already ahead of the game. It might take time, but I truly do believe that with persistence and a willingness to always learn we can make it.

Good luck!

Wrider · Jul 25, 2010

I forgot to post another reply...
Thank you, Katie.

You've been a great encouragement. I'm feeling better now and just trying to figure out my direction. But my confidence is returning. So yes... thank you.

Troubled. What am I?

Wrider

Sleep. Eat. Write.

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

DaveKuzminski

Preditors & Editors

Bartholomew

Comic guy

Marian Perera

starting over

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Wrider

Sleep. Eat. Write.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Wrider

Sleep. Eat. Write.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Wrider

Sleep. Eat. Write.

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

merrihiatt

Writing! Writing! Writing!

Marian Perera

starting over

Wrider

Sleep. Eat. Write.

kaitie

With great power comes

Wrider

Sleep. Eat. Write.