The Tobermory Cat-Troll

Bogna · Nov 2, 2012

I'm suing for copy right infringement if this ends up in TIO.

MacAllister · Nov 2, 2012

(Admin note - let's not publicly speculate about someone else's mental health over the internet, okay? I now restore you to your regularly scheduled cat pictures and poetry.)

Billtrumpet25 · Nov 2, 2012

Cyia said:
solemn addition of a thread lock.

And a ban...yeah, yeah...don't forget about that.

Deleted member 42 · Nov 2, 2012

It's hard being cat, constantly waiting for server monkeys to realize it's time to serve dinner.

benbradley · Nov 2, 2012

Server monkeys? Would it be impertinent to ask what happened to the hamsters?

thothguard51 · Nov 2, 2012

benbradley said:
Server monkeys? Would it be impertinent to ask what happened to the hamsters?

Unless you have proof, do not blame the cats.

jjdebenedictis · Nov 2, 2012

MacAllister said:
(Admin note - let's not publicly speculate about someone else's mental health over the internet, okay? I now restore you to your regularly scheduled cat pictures and poetry.)

Dur, you're absolutely right. I'm sorry.

fadeaccompli · Nov 2, 2012

RedWombat said:
Some of my best friends are apostrophes.

(Semi-colons can suck it, though, the high-falutin' little bastards.)

Don't worry, little semi-colons! You can come stay with me. I totally understand that your monocles are for actual single-eye prescriptions and that the top hats have very practical purposes in your daily life.

Bookewyrme · Nov 2, 2012

fadeaccompli said:
Don't worry, little semi-colons! You can come stay with me. I totally understand that your monocles are for actual single-eye prescriptions and that the top hats have very practical purposes in your daily life.

I am suddenly picturing little semi-colons in top-hats and monocles doing that dance the peanut mascot does (I forget which company he's the mascot for, Planters maybe?)

BenPanced · Nov 2, 2012

Mr. Peanut for Planters.

BenPanced · Nov 2, 2012

Cyia said:
Perhaps the next poem should be a funeral dirge followed by the solid and solemn addition of a thread lock.

*lowers hat over heart*

'Twas a fine ol' thread in 'er day. Sad to see 'er run aground.

Dead thread, oh.
Oh, dead thread.
Thread? Oh, dead.
Oh, oh, dead.
Oh, thread? Dead.
Dead. Thread. Oh.
Dirge.

Katrina S. Forest · Nov 2, 2012

EDIT: Thought the better of troll-feeding.

Will simply say continue on with the poetry and cat pictures.

sarmouni · Nov 3, 2012

Hi, this is the first time I've seen this writers' forum, having been directed to this thread for unfortunate reasons, and I'm impressed. Thanks for being here.

For what it's worth, I don't believe that the character ThingWithFeathers who defended Tobermory Cat in the comments to the Guardian article was a sockpuppet: ThingWithFeathers was rather more articulate. There certainly appeared to be a good deal of "history" about what they wrote which did not appear to support their assertion that they had only just read about the affair, however, so they may have been a meat puppet or an ardent supporter.

ThingWithFeathers claimed to be in the GMT +2 hours timezone and in the southern hemisphere and shortly after their appearance at the Guardian site, an anonymous South African IP user did indeed refactor a comment that I had made on the talk page attached to Debi Gliori's Wikipedia biography. The text originally read:

"I believe that Bryony24 acted in good faith, following a sustained campaign of alleged internet bullying / stalking of the subject, Debi Gliori by another involved person and their fans" and they changed that to "... by another involved person's fans" (absolving the artist of blame). They also added the edit summary: "No proof the other involved person stalked or bullied anyone, only that their fans did so" which I feel requires a level of technical competence, sophistication and clarity that I have not seen in Tobermory Cat's responses here.

One thing that does concern me are the pointy comments about Tobermory Cat's poor standard of English. There could be perfectly valid, perhaps unfortunate, reasons for this, such as dyslexia.

Anyhow, thanks again. I look forward to reading more on this forum.

Stacia Kane · Nov 3, 2012

Well, I love semicolons.

aliceshortcake · Nov 3, 2012

Stacia Kane said:
Well, I love semicolons.

So do I; they're adorable!

Terie · Nov 3, 2012

sarmouni said:
Hi, this is the first time I've seen this writers' forum, having been directed to this thread for unfortunate reasons, and I'm impressed. Thanks for being here.

For what it's worth, I don't believe that the character ThingWithFeathers who defended Tobermory Cat in the comments to the Guardian article was a sockpuppet: ThingWithFeathers was rather more articulate. There certainly appeared to be a good deal of "history" about what they wrote which did not appear to support their assertion that they had only just read about the affair, however, so they may have been a meat puppet or an ardent supporter.

ThingWithFeathers claimed to be in the GMT +2 hours timezone and in the southern hemisphere and shortly after their appearance at the Guardian site, an anonymous South African IP user did indeed refactor a comment that I had made on the talk page attached to Debi Gliori's Wikipedia biography. The text originally read:

"I believe that Bryony24 acted in good faith, following a sustained campaign of alleged internet bullying / stalking of the subject, Debi Gliori by another involved person and their fans" and they changed that to "... by another involved person's fans" (absolving the artist of blame). They also added the edit summary: "No proof the other involved person stalked or bullied anyone, only that their fans did so" which I feel requires a level of technical competence, sophistication and clarity that I have not seen in Tobermory Cat's responses here.

One thing that does concern me are the pointy comments about Tobermory Cat's poor standard of English. There could be perfectly valid, perhaps unfortunate, reasons for this, such as dyslexia.

Anyhow, thanks again. I look forward to reading more on this forum.

Hi, Sarmouni, and welcome to AW. I enjoyed reading your posts on the Guardian thread, though I stayed out of it over there.

I'm curious to know more about the edits on the Wikipedia page. It no longer has either of the statements quoted above. Can you share more about that? The battle being waged on poor Debi's Wikipedia page is interesting.

sarmouni · Nov 3, 2012

Terie said:
I'm curious to know more about the edits on the Wikipedia page. It no longer has either of the statements quoted above. Can you share more about that? The battle being waged on poor Debi's Wikipedia page is interesting.

Hi Terie, thanks for the welcome. The quotes are from the article's talk page. The article itself is here.

As explained in the talk page, I felt that given the additional coverage in The Guardian (and perhaps more to come, God forbid), the controversy should be mentioned in the article, and also attempt to tell the whole story, without going into the next level of intricate detail.

By the way, I'm told that there's a good review in The Times today, but I can't get past their pay wall. Will see if I can get a copy from the reviewer, @AmandaPCraig. I'll also need details like the URL. This will help dilute the controversy section.

yayeahyeah · Nov 3, 2012

sarmouni said:
Hi Teri, thanks for the welcome. The quotes are from the article's talk page. The article itself is here.

As explained in the talk page, I felt that given the additional coverage in The Guardian (and perhaps more to come, God forbid), the controversy should be mentioned in the article, and also attempt to tell the whole story, without going into the next level of intricate detail.

By the way, I'm told that there's a good review in The Times today, but I can't get past their pay wall. Will see if I can get a copy from the reviewer, @AmandaPCraig. I'll also need details like the URL. This will help dilute the controversy section.

Yup, fab review! I've just retweeted it from @yayeahyeah if that helps with the URL. (sorry, on my phone so can't put the link here.)

sarmouni · Nov 3, 2012

yayeahyeah said:
Yup, fab review! I've just retweeted it from @yayeahyeah if that helps with the URL. (sorry, on my phone so can't put the link here.)

Many thanks, yayeahyeah. Rather aptly, I can only read up to "What a shame", so will have to see if Amanda Craig will email me copy ... and Wikipedia isn't fond of references that require a subscription. Silly, silly Times.

Unless anyone here could highlight the review (not the controversy) in a paragraph for the Wiki "Reception" section? I already have the citation details.

thebookshopowner · Nov 3, 2012

Duncan, Tobermory
Sorry to come onto your blog again. I had very carefully read Lucy Coats blog on internet Troll http://awfullybigblogadventure.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/the-troll-under-internet-bridge-lucy.html
and had taken her advice not to add to this already distressing affair. However she also strongly points out there are times when you must reply and last night it all flared up again. Locals have contacted me today to explain that I am again being referred to in posts on the facebook page. The inference of these posts was the publisher was uninvited and I was rude when talking to Gus about Debi’s book.
This is what happened:
After the children’s cat book was suggested I was very excited about how this could help Tobermory attract visitors in these tough times.
I saw an opportunity for Gus, Hugh and Debi to work together.
I didn’t send Hugh and Debi unannounced to see Gus.
I went myself to the Doctors House (the local Doctor is Gus’s partner). I knocked at the door. I was invited in to the house and then into to the studio (the studio is the old Doctors Surgery). It’s a lovely place.
I explained to Gus about the children’s book.
His reaction was unexpected. He told me he didn’t want the children’s book published.
I didn’t understand the problem.
Trying to retrieve the situation I asked Gus if he had any personal plans to do a children’s book.
He said “No”
I explained that Hugh and Debi were really good people and suggested he meet them.
Gus agreed. My involvement in the subsequent meeting ended.

NakedTruth · Nov 3, 2012

Hi Duncan, I see the technical side but on reading the posts I’m a bit concerned about when exactly you knew about the FaceBook page. In your earlier post you say;

“When the idea of the book came up it was I who suggested that Debi and Hugh meet Gus. I had seen Gus taking many photos of the cat.”

I don’t understand why you thought it necessary to involve Gus in the business deal just because he was taking photos of the cat. I also find it strange because at this point you didn’t even know he had a FaceBook page about the cat, yet Gus had being taken photos of the otter for its FaceBook prior to this and the otter died. I have lived in a small coastal village in Ireland and this sort of thing would be common knowledge. I think you must have known that Gus was doing more than taking photos to have thought it necessary to involve him in this business deal. After all you did have photos you had taken yourself.

Did you have any prior knowledge that Gus was documenting the lives of animals in Tobermory ?

You knew Gus was an artist why did you not involve him in the illustrations for the book ?

How many local artists are there in Tobermory?

Are you the person who came up with the idea for the book ?

Would you be financially compensated ?

Would the town receive any money?

Do you have family on the town’s committee who would allocate any monies received ?

Are you the holder already of patents for ideas and listed as an inventor ?

The thing that bothers me most is you say that you didn’t know about the FaceBook page until AFTER you met Gus to tell him about the meeting.

“When the idea of the book came up it was I who suggested that Debi and Hugh meet Gus.”

Yet the author reports this meeting with Hugh saying “it even has its own FaceBook page”

So did you know about the FaceBook page before or after your meeting about the idea with Hugh ?

You say you had already come up with the idea with Hugh and only found out about the FaceBook page when you arranged to meet with Gus. The author makes it very clear in her blog that a FaceBook page was a big selling point of the idea before you arranged the meeting with Gus.

Was the idea discussed with the local committee and voted on?

If this was put before a committee don’t you think a local artist illustrating the book would be preferred ?

The publisher would surely pay an unknown illustrator less than an illustrator who has J.K Rowling as a fan.

I don't think you have taken the moral high ground, you have many personal and family interests in Tobermory which you should have declared. If your prime motivation was for the town why didn't you put it before a local committee? You also fail to declare your experience of patenting ideas.
You may be legally right, but the reason why this mess got to where it now is, is because you agreed to go ahead anyway despite knowing how upset Gus was.

The author's conduct is also a disgrace, she as the Daily Record reports "has an army of fans including J.K Rowling" knowing this she writes a passive-aggressive smear of Gus.
If you now Google the internet you will see how many more fans the author has by the number of smears against Gus's name.

Gus seems to me like a hothead, but he has stuck to "they stole my idea" in all that he has done, meanwhile the author makes insulations that Gus has an unnatural interest in her personal life, and lunged at her to plant a farewell kiss. This to her army of fans and this after she made the same accusation against Gus.

Anyone properly researching the author will see a woman at the top of her profession with an army of fans, including many journalists and of course J.K Rowling. She has got to the top while bringing up 5 children. Her publisher is the top independent book publisher in Scotland with and army of lawyers.

This is not a person who has been the victim of cyber bullying. All the "abuse" came from twitter and facebook, both she hardly uses, if this was causing her any real harm she has an army of lawyers and UK law at her disposal.

But what does she decide to do ? Make a whole host of very serious accusations against Gus far worse than theft and leaves it up to her fans to sort out.

You all have acted disgracefully.

sarmouni · Nov 3, 2012

NakedTruth said:
She writes a passive-aggressive smear of Gus ... Meanwhile the author makes insulations that Gus has an unnatural interest in her personal life, and lunged at her to plant a farewell kiss. This to her army of fans and this after she made the same accusation against Gus.

Now that is a familiar M.O.

Cyia · Nov 3, 2012

Terie said:
I'm curious to know more about the edits on the Wikipedia page. It no longer has either of the statements quoted above. Can you share more about that? The battle being waged on poor Debi's Wikipedia page is interesting.

From the current "Controversy" section:

Tobermory is the capital of the Isle of Mull in the Scottish Inner Hebrides. It is also the name of a talking cat in the short story Tobermory by Hector Hugh Munro (1870–1916), who wrote as Saki.[19][20] A real life cat of the same name actually lived in Tobermory, and on 22 July 2010 Tobermory distillery announced that it had replaced the "iconic sign" outside the plant with one featuring "two of the most recognisable characters on the Island – the distillery cats", Tobermory and Ledaig.[21]
In 2011–12, Debi Gliori was at the centre of a disagreement about copyright surrounding a character named "Tobermory Cat".[22][23][24] Isle of Mull artist Angus Stewart, who had created a Facebook page entitled "Tobermory Cat" on 25 February 2011[25] made unproven allegations that "his idea has been 'stolen'" through the intended publication of Debi Gliori's illustrated children's book entitled The Tobermory Cat.[22][23][26] The publishing company Birlinn's managing director, Hugh Andrew in turn issued a detailed rebuttal of these allegations, correcting what he saw as "numerous inaccuracies" and denying any infringement of intellectual property.[23] The publisher also "threatened to seek legal advice" over what he believed to be defamatory comments made by Mr. Stewart.[24]
Mr. Stewart later published his own collection of photographs, Tobermory Cat: Famous for Being Famous.[19][27]

Here's a bit about the sign replacement at the distillery, dated July 2010: http://www.prlog.org/10811251-tails-from-an-island-tobermory-replaces-iconic-sign.html

Artist Stewart says: “The sign is instantly recognisable as Tobermory Bay and the cats are always strutting around town, so we wanted to paint them in as a wee joke for the locals. It’s now turned into a challenge for visitors to the island who want to spot them in the sign.”

Distillery Manager Graham Brown says that the cats are known by everyone in the town. “Tobermory and Ledaig are meant to be the distillery’s cats, but they’re never here! They sneak into hotels and houses, find a comfy bed and stay there til it’s time to get some food from the next person. Ledaig likes the bus as well – the driver often finds him on the seat so just takes him on the journey. They get spoiled rotten by the locals as everyone likes to give them treats. And they know when the fishing boats are due in as well to see if they can scrounge anything from them!”

^^ "artist Stewart" is Stewart O'Donnell, not the other artist Stewart^^

From the Wikipedia "talk" section:

Bryony24 (talk · contribs) was censured in May 2012 for attempting to remove a controversy section from the stub article about Debi Gliori.
I believe that Bryony24 acted in good faith, following a sustained campaign of alleged internet bullying / stalking of the subject, Debi Gliori by another involved person's fans. This culminated in articles written in the press and the inclusion of the controversy section which the subject attempted unsuccessfully to have removed.
The entry, originally added by 86.182.215.233 (talk · contribs · info · WHOIS) at 10:53, 9 May 2012, has been repeatedly added and removed since that time.
For Debi Gliori's side of the story, see Fiddle and pins: The Tobermory Cat, the trolls & me (25 October 2012).
Regarding the allegation of stealing ideas: these allegations are groundless. You cannot copyright or fake-trademark something well known in real life, in the public domain and generic like "The Tobermory Cat" any more than I could the Loch Ness monster. In any case, Saki wrote about a cat called "Tobermory" prior to his death in 1916. For the full story from The Chronicles of Clovis, see "Tobermory" by Saki.

Incidentally, the Guardian's article is being cited as the reason the Controversy section went back up.

NakedTruth · Nov 3, 2012

sarmouni said:
Now that is a familiar M.O.

Yes this is ThingWithFeathers from the Guardian.

I am a programmer living in South Africa, I only came across the story and characters involved after the Guardian story was published.

The many people who have tried to link me with Gus do so knowing they cannot know this to be fact, yet they make it knowing how badly it damage Gus's reputation, really classy.

The Guardian's editor will be shortly receiving a letter from me about why they deleted the defamatory comments made suggesting I was Gus. Yet they have only "removed" my comments. The reason The Guardian uses a place holder and a removed notice is so that readers can still see where the argument went. By Totalling deleting the comments made by the author's fans which were defamatory, they make the argument appear as if no abuse by her fans occurred.

I also note the same defamatory comments saying I am Gus are still displayed on this thread.

It's not true please remove them.

CQuinlan · Nov 3, 2012

NakedTruth said:
I also note the same defamatory comments saying I am Gus are still displayed on this thread.

It's not true please remove them.

I don't really care about the rest but speculation is not the same as defamation.

Dictionaries are your friend.

The Tobermory Cat-Troll

Bogna

MacAllister

'Twas but a dream of thee

Billtrumpet25

Deleted member 42

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

fadeaccompli

here and there again

Bookewyrme

Imagined half of it.

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Katrina S. Forest

sarmouni

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective

aliceshortcake

Wilde about Oscar

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

sarmouni

yayeahyeah

sarmouni

thebookshopowner

NakedTruth

sarmouni

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

NakedTruth

CQuinlan