4th agent cited word count for genre as one rejection reason

writerjordan

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Pardon the writing...on my phone at work. Just received a fourth rejection. It seemed form (the agent said she didn't connect with the writing as well as she had hoped) but also mentioned that my word count is low for fantasy...just shy of 60k. Is it worth trying to expand or should I keep querying at this wc?
 

Maggie Maxwell

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Unfortunately, yeah, 60k is kinda the short end of novel and harder to sell for most genres, but especially fantasy. If you can find room to edge in an extra 9 to 10k, that would probably push you into a better place. I know it's hard, I've been there, but I've also managed to do it with two novels that initially finished around 50-55k. You can do it. :)
 

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60k is quite low. But can you elaborate on your genre? Is it contemporary fantasy, historical, romance, second world fantasy, etc. Adult or YA? And have you had critiques/beta readers?
 

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60k is quite low. But can you elaborate on your genre? Is it contemporary fantasy, historical, romance, second world fantasy, etc. Adult or YA? And have you had critiques/beta readers?

Second world. I could definitely expand but I didn't know it would be a big issue. No critiques or betas yet. I guess after this agent cycle I'll stop to expand
 

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You can also look for novella markets.
 

Undercover

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I would try to get some critiques on it too, before sending more out.

The word count might be low for fantasy. If it's YA fantasy, you're okay. If it was MG fantasy, it would be teetering on being too much. I would look up your intended audience and find out what the sweet spot for word count it is.
 

mrsmig

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Second world. I could definitely expand but I didn't know it would be a big issue. No critiques or betas yet. I guess after this agent cycle I'll stop to expand

Yeah, I'd suggest you do that. Don't burn through your agent list without getting some other eyes on your work first.
 

writerjordan

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Yeah, I'd suggest you do that. Don't burn through your agent list without getting some other eyes on your work first.

This may seem dumb but how can I find beta readers? And how much do they charge if they usually do? Also, how can I ensure a beta reader won't steal my work?
 
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Woollybear

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Check out Share Your Work on this forum. Read through fifteen pieces and ask yourself if you have any desire to steal *any* of them.

I suppose it could happen, but as far as I know, the risk is teeny tiny.

You can also find a local writing group. This is how I eased in to what you are looking at. I took excerpts similar to my 'baby' but with different ideas, ones I didn't care about, and got feedback on those pieces. Over time I learned to trust these critique partners.

They are now good friends.
 

mrsmig

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Don't hire a beta reader.

What I'd suggest you do is spend some time exploring this site, especially the Share Your Work section (password: vista). Make some posts; give people a chance to get to know you. When you've accrued 50+ substantive posts, you can start your own thread in the appropriate SYW subforum (be sure to read the stickies). Get some feedback there first. Then, you can go to the Beta Readers subforum and post a request. You'll generally get more responses if people have had a chance to look at your work ahead of time.

No one here wants to steal your work. We're all busy with our own. Here's a good article on the topic: Jane Friedman - Are You Worried Your Ideas or Work Will Be Stolen?
 
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writerjordan

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Don't hire a beta reader.

What I'd suggest you do is spend some time exploring this site, especially the Share Your Work section (password: vista). Make some posts; give people a chance to get to know you. When you've accrued 50+ substantive posts, you can start your own thread in the appropriate SYW subforum (be sure to read the stickies). Get some feedback there first. Then, you can go to the Beta Readers subforum and post a request. You'll generally get more responses if people have had a chance to look at your work ahead of time.

No one here wants to steal your work. We're all busy with our own. Here's a good article on the topic: Jane Friedman - Are You Worried Your Ideas or Work Will Be Stolen?

Thanks. I found this website where the person will read it $1 per 1k words. So it would only cost $57 for a two week response time. Is this a good idea for a substantive opinion?

https://wanderlostborough.wordpress...fe586568&_wpnonce=c9ee0dbe17#contact-form-500
 

Unimportant

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Thanks. I found this website where the person will read it $1 per 1k words. So it would only cost $57 for a two week response time. Is this a good idea for a substantive opinion?

https://wanderlostborough.wordpress...fe586568&_wpnonce=c9ee0dbe17#contact-form-500

In general, beta readers are free (with the caveat that a swap is often the rule; you do mine and I'll do yours). Editors cost money.

Whether you get value for what you pay an editor/time you put into beta-ing depends on how good and useful the feedback you receive is. Since I don't know anything about this wanderlost person, I can't judge whether their feedback would be useful or not. But it looks like s/he will do a first chapter for free, to see if their feedback clicks for you, so it may be worth trying that.

I can absolutely guarantee that no one will want to steal your work. If it was that fantabulously good, agents would be snapping it up. And pretty much every writer already has a zillion ideas of their own, and not enough hours to spend on them.

Adding: as noted above, the 'share your work' subforum here at AW is a great place to get (and give!) feedback. While you do have to be an established (50 posts) member to post your own work for feedback, you can ask for feedback on the first paragraph or so right away (I think the threads in each genre subforum are called 'hook me in 200 words'). It's a way to get interacting with other writers in your genre here, and to meet potential beta readers.
 
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mrsmig

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The individual in question hasn't posted any qualifications for taking your money. No education, no experience - nothing except that she loves reading and writing and has put out a book herself.

ETA: Unimportant is correct - if you want feedback right away, you can post small excerpts from your work, in the various Hook Me in Your First 200 Words and the Post Your First Three Sentences threads. Anything longer will need its own thread, and those pesky 50+ posts.
 
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cool pop

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I don't even read fantasy and I know that's extremely low for the genre. Most the fantasy I see is 130,000 words plus. You might need to expand it. Try throwing in some subplots that fit or adding more conflict or more depth into what you already got.
Usually I would say just go with what you wrote and be happy but this is a genre issue and I'm afraid you will keep running into this problem. Try to get it to at least 100k. That's only about 40,000 words. Seems massive but not much once you get into the writing. The agents are rejecting because they know what readers want and readers in this genre are used to meaty books. Good luck!
 
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Marian Perera

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The individual in question hasn't posted any qualifications for taking your money. No education, no experience - nothing except that she loves reading and writing and has put out a book herself.

I'm also a little skeptical of the fact that she accepts all genres. Does this mean she's familiar with the requirements and expectations of the readerships of all genres?
 

writerjordan

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I don't even read fantasy and I know that's extremely low for the genre. Most the fantasy I see is 130,000 words plus. You might need to expand it. Try throwing in some subplots that fit or adding more conflict or more depth into what you already got.
Usually I would say just go with what you wrote and be happy but this is a genre issue and I'm afraid you will keep running into this problem. Try to get it to at least 100k. That's only about 40,000 words. Seems massive but not much once you get into the writing. The agents are rejecting because they know what readers want and readers in this genre are used to meaty books. Good luck!

Thanks! And thank you all for helping me find a beta reader. I'm so nervous haha. I did take a creative writing class in college which was taught by a published author and he thought my writing was good. That has been the only real feedback about my writing though.
 

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Thanks! And thank you all for helping me find a beta reader. I'm so nervous haha. I did take a creative writing class in college which was taught by a published author and he thought my writing was good. That has been the only real feedback about my writing though.

One thing it took me a really (really) long time to learn - there's a difference between being able to write and constructing a compelling narrative.

I think the concern about a too-short fantasy is that the story won't have the substance a novel needs. You may indeed have a novella on your hands, which isn't a bad thing, but they're sold differently and an agent would know that.

Also, +1000 to everyone recommending Share Your Work before you go digging for a beta. It can indeed be harrowing, but you're among peers there, and it's a good place to start.
 

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Thanks! And thank you all for helping me find a beta reader. I'm so nervous haha. I did take a creative writing class in college which was taught by a published author and he thought my writing was good. That has been the only real feedback about my writing though.
Ah, I must've misunderstood. In your first post on AW you said "But I haven't been published in eons" and that your current novel has been "meticulously edited" so I thought you'd been published previously, which would have naturally entailed editorial feedback.
 

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Before you sit down to expand your word count, you should take a hard look at possible story deficiencies; that is, after all, what an agent citing low word count means. Since your novel is a fantasy, you might want to look at your worldbuilding and your narrative arc as the two most likely "suspects" needing further development.
 

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SYW is great, however experienced you are. I've found having other's takes on my work hugely insightful and beneficial, and it has saved me from making several bad decisions.

As someone who works for a literary consultancy who offers editing - if you do decide to go down that route, you'll get more out of it the better shape your MS is in. I've edited books that are at quite an early stage so have sunk a lot of my editing time into very basic issues, which means I've not had the time to develop the bigger things (plot, pace etc) as much as I'd have liked to.
 

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If it's adult fantasy, for a debut author you are really looking to hit the sweet spot of the 80k-125k range. Anything less than that will cause you issues of auto-rejection, but longer than that is not an automatic no if it's good.
 

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One idea you might try to expand it is, if it's currently only a single character's POV, add another to tell the same story from a different perspective. This can add more depth and flesh to the plot and more world building without seriously disrupting the story.
 

writerjordan

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Ah, I must've misunderstood. In your first post on AW you said "But I haven't been published in eons" and that your current novel has been "meticulously edited" so I thought you'd been published previously, which would have naturally entailed editorial feedback.

I've had short stories published but that doesn't really speak to novel writing ability.
 
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writerjordan

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One thing it took me a really (really) long time to learn - there's a difference between being able to write and constructing a compelling narrative.

I think the concern about a too-short fantasy is that the story won't have the substance a novel needs. You may indeed have a novella on your hands, which isn't a bad thing, but they're sold differently and an agent would know that.

Also, +1000 to everyone recommending Share Your Work before you go digging for a beta. It can indeed be harrowing, but you're among peers there, and it's a good place to start.

I went over to look but the 50 post limit is really daunting! I see you can circumvent it by donating but I don't know if that's frowned upon here.