The Cantina Staring Back At You From The Abyss

greendragon said:

Good news day is good!

I got an email from my publisher - Misfortune of Song, book #5 in The Druid's Brooch Series, is now accepted and on contract! WOOHOO!

In other good news, Call of the Morrigú is in this week's Creme de la Cover contest at InD'Tale Magazine - you do have to register to vote, but it's a great site.

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Congratulations!

E.F.B. said:

*sigh* I can't decide if my Snow White should actually eat the poison apple or not. If she does eat it, she'll get revived pretty soon after because the story requires her to not spend a long time passed out, but I'm half tempted to have her turn it down entirely because she knows it's the evil queen who's giving it to her (queen is not in disguise at this point) and that she can't trust any promises said evil queen gives her in relation to, "If you eat this apple and take yourself out I won't hurt the rest of your family." MC is only twelve, though, and been extremely sheltered for her entire life, so would it make sense for her to be over trusting and think she's bravely sacrificing herself for her family? But then, I've also stated in the story that MC has been taught by her caretakers to read, and I'm afraid that might make readers think she's dumb because surely goodness, even with limited access to books, she's at some point in her life read a story where the villain broke a promise...Or...maybe not?

What do y'all think? Under these^ circumstances should she eat the apple or not? (This is a fairly traditional fantasy retelling, btw, but with certain carefully placed twists to freshen things up.)

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Going with greendragon's idea, have her eat half, be poisoned, and spit out the rest. Then she can apprentice under a poison-master dwarf - the black sheep among the dwarven family, lives in the dirty city as an assassin - and once she is all grown up, she can pay back the Queen with interest, feeding her an apple bite by bite.

Thanks for all the thoughts on Snow White, everyone! The creative juices have been churning and I think I have a direction to go now. Yay!

Kitkitdizzi said:

It's quite brilliantly brought up in the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations", which is one of my favorite episodes.

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That one was really cute. There's also a series of episodes in Enterprise where they explain exactly what happened that caused some of the Klingons to no longer have forehead ridges.

Now I just want an explanation for why in the world they changed the Klingon appearance so drastically in Star Trek Discovery. I've only seen the pilot episode because my mom doesn't want to pay for the streaming service just to watch one series, and while I generally liked the pilot, I just don't understand why they had to change the Klingons to the point they are no longer identifiable as such without saying that's what they are in dialogue. Grr.

Eilyfe said:

Going with greendragon's idea, have her eat half, be poisoned, and spit out the rest. Then she can apprentice under a poison-master dwarf - the black sheep among the dwarven family, lives in the dirty city as an assassin - and once she is all grown up, she can pay back the Queen with interest, feeding her an apple bite by bite.

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That's a fascinating, if not somewhat frightening idea. I can see some people enjoying a retelling like that, though. Maybe *you* should write it.


Morning, Cantina. My dad got antibiotics for the cellulitis infection, so that should clear up soon. Looks like we're getting more rain here. I'm greatful for it, but I hope it lets up enough for me to get out and take product photos at some point since I wasn't able to get them yesterday. Other than that I'll mainly be writing moar werdz today and possibly a quick book review.

Quick fantasy question:

How would you define fae (in literature)? Everything I look up said fairies, but I'm wondering if it includes elves...

Fae are anything someone says they are. In Victorian literature, they are elves, fairies, goblins, any supernatural creature. In older traditions, the Fae were once creatures who lived on Ireland before the humans came. They moved into the realm 'under the hills' afterwards, and the Irish word for hill is "sidhe" (pronounced shee), they became known as the sidhe, or aos sí (ace shee). You might be familiar with the banshee - this is from bean sidhe, or woman fairy.

There are many sorts of Fae in Irish literature, from the high court (Fairy Queen and consort) to the lowly house elves. Yes, they aren't just from Harry Potter. A house fae would do odd things around to help the house - churn butter, clean the chimney, etc., but only if you treated them with respect. They were bound to the place, not the people.

Other Fae weren't as nice or helpful. Goblins and trolls are similar in actions/appearance. Grotesques with evil deeds in mind.

I have much more information if you want it

Also, you specified literature - the main literature for the Fae that we pay attention to in modern times are the romantics like Spencer or Yeats. Definitely elf-like Fae there.

Aggy B. said:

Screenplays require rigid structure OR absolute genius. 110 pages doesn't allow much wiggle room for structure. Novels, being more like 300-500 pages, give you more play with the specific "when" of beats happening. (And it can seem kind of arbitrary with screenplays, but I was talking to another author earlier this summer about screenplays and beats and she said that the Guardians of the Galaxy 2 movie is longer than normal and it threw her off because she's seen so many films that she expects various things to happen at various points and having them stretched out drew her out of the movie because it just felt wrong.) YMMV.

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see, I studied script writing in college and some of my profs swore by save the cat's structure, while others discussed how many theorists say that extent of structure makes movies stale. you know what to expect exactly when. I think it works well as a guideline, but needs some wiggle room to diminish predictability

Mary Love said:

Quick fantasy question:

How would you define fae (in literature)? Everything I look up said fairies, but I'm wondering if it includes elves...

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I would say that elves are related, but not the same. a large part of fae lore is about their customs -- their obsession with rules, games, tricks -- and heirarchy. elves have a similar heirarchy in which they're often monarchies, but they have really different customs

Well I'm terrible at genre identification, but a some authors in AMM specify 'No Fae' in their anti-MSWL, while also be strongly for fantasy, witches, princess, etc. Is that just a way of saying no magical elements?

ETA:
Eh, never mind, decided it doesn't really matter. I've plenty of options w/out subbing to the 'no fae' crowd.

One of my least favorite parts about writing - coming up with a tagline.

Here's my blurb (suggestions would be welcome to improve!). My taglines so far are pretty lame. Any suggestions? The story is in two POVs, Maelan and Orlagh, but Maelan is the main driver of the story.

Could you choose between life and happiness?
Independence, happiness, and duty can be rivals.


In 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland, all Maelan wants is to do his duty to his Chief and maintain his family’s good name. However, his granddaughter, Orlagh, is hell bent on ruining everything.
When an itinerant bard comes to town, it’s all he can do to stop the two from running off together. However, his strictures result in her almost drowning, a fate that ripped his dearest wife from him many years before.
In the end, he must make several bargains with the Fae and choose between her happiness and her life.

Jade A said:

my fiance told everyone their new name today! CONNOR! they're officially out. I'm really proud of them

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Jade, I'mma 'bout to tell you something you NEED to do STAT, upon seeing of this missive. HI-5 CONNOR LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW!!! :O :O And then tell them again how incredibly awesome-like and totes mega brave they are because heck, dude/bro/individual, that's supe's ultra amazing and rad and honestly, if i'm being honest, and I am being honest here: They're swanky as all-get-out for this!!

I remember changing my name once upon a time, it's still a sore spot for me (the old name), but I have grown far enough away from it and the people who still use it that most of the time it never comes up, and that's GREAT! So, in conclusion, hi-5 Connor, compliment their great name choice, and be just as fantastic of a future-spouse as you are being right NAO!

Mary Love said:

Quick fantasy question:

How would you define fae (in literature)? Everything I look up said fairies, but I'm wondering if it includes elves...

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Late to this party, but yaknow whut, I'mma still chime in! Mary, I think you should do what makes your story strengar in your eyes, and not give a dam about what other people say about specific minutiae of word choices until said dam you didn't give bursts. Then, maybe... MAYBE consider revising it. Maybe.

So now I'm curious why they don't want stories about Fae - perhaps they're under a geis? Or they've been to Faerie and are under command by the queen...

I suspect too many D&D Dark Elf rip-offs or Tolkeinesque elves - Tall, haughty, and impossibly beautiful - are being submitted these days.

I intend to use some elves in a novel, but they'll be based more on the Norse dark, light, and gray elves ...

*Oh boy! More books for researching for my library!*

RED = Text I add/my thoughts
Blue = repetition
Everything else is just purdy colours

greendragon said:

One of my least favorite parts about writing - coming up with a tagline.

Here's my blurb (suggestions would be welcome to improve!). My taglines so far are pretty lame. Any suggestions? The story is in two POVs, Maelan and Orlagh, but Maelan is the main driver of the story.

Could you choose between life and happiness? Yes, easily. Consider (based upon reading the blurb) having it not sound like a choice made for oneself, but for another. Like make it about the relationship between chooser and chosen, and and imply the strife such a choice causes.
Independence, happiness, and duty can be rivals. I find this one too nebulous.... It doesn't make me care! :/


In 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland, all Maelan wants is to do his duty to his Chief and maintain his family’s good name. However, his granddaughter, Orlagh, is hell bent on ruining everything. So far I'm intrigued.
When an itinerant bard <-- you might consider making the bard more or less significant in this blurb. They come across as an afterthought as is. comes to town, it’s all he can do to stop the two from running off together. However, his <-- whose? the Bard's? Maelan's? strictures <-- I no likey this word here. result in her almost drowning, >>>a fate that ripped his dearest wife from him many years before <<< this needs to be WAY more or WAY less significant in the blurb. It's too, too... much in not enough words. I don't think backstory is necessary for a blurb.
In the end <-- nopedy nope nope!! Never tell us the ending in the blurb!! he must make several <-- this word also should be considered for revision. It says a lot without saying anything at all, and therefore it doesn't... like, work in my mind bargains with the Fae and choose between her happiness and her life. <-- so this where the tagline gets substantiated... I think you could make it more immediate and importante than it sounds here.

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The beginning of the blurb is greate! It got me curious at the very least, but the rest is something I KNOW for a FACT you can improve, GD. Like, totes, a lot improve. I hope I was helpful in some way! Remember to include a healthy balance of salt grains in your critique absorption diet!

Excellent feedback, Dammy, thank you!

Second try:
Taglines:
Could you choose between your granddaughter’s life—or her happiness?
Maelan is an honorable soldier, but he cannot fight young love.
His honor is at stake, but so is his granddaughter’s happiness.
Young love can mean young death.


Blurb:
In 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland, all Maelan wants is to do his duty to his Chief and maintain his family’s good name. However, his granddaughter Orlagh, is hell bent on ruining everything.
When Orlagh falls in love with an itinerant bard, Maelan must rule with an iron fist to keep her from running away.
He fails.
The result is a quest, several bargains with the Fae, and an ultimate choice that will affect their lives forever.

greendragon said:

One of my least favorite parts about writing - coming up with a tagline.

Here's my blurb (suggestions would be welcome to improve!). My taglines so far are pretty lame. Any suggestions? The story is in two POVs, Maelan and Orlagh, but Maelan is the main driver of the story.

Could you choose between life and happiness?
Independence, happiness, and duty can be rivals.


In 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland, all Maelan wants is to do his duty to his Chief and maintain his family’s good name. However, his granddaughter, Orlagh, is hell bent on ruining everything.
When an itinerant bard comes to town, it’s all he can do to stop the two from running off together. However, his strictures result in her almost drowning, a fate that ripped his dearest wife from him many years before.
In the end, he must make several bargains with the Fae and choose between her happiness and her life.

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"Life vs Happiness" doesn't really parase as a choice. I think Maelan's conflict as described might be better summed up as Love (his personal attachments to his family) vs Honor (his duties and his commitment to his family's reputation). Does that make sense? (Edit: Making it about his grandaughter's life/happiness does make more sense).

Also, how do the Fae get involved and what hints can you drop about the nature of the bargain they offer?

I thought of a couple more possibilities:

An impossible choice and a daring rescue

Sometimes honor must be ignored

E.F.B. said:

*sigh* I can't decide if my Snow White should actually eat the poison apple or not. If she does eat it, she'll get revived pretty soon after because the story requires her to not spend a long time passed out, but I'm half tempted to have her turn it down entirely because she knows it's the evil queen who's giving it to her (queen is not in disguise at this point) and that she can't trust any promises said evil queen gives her in relation to, "If you eat this apple and take yourself out I won't hurt the rest of your family." MC is only twelve, though, and been extremely sheltered for her entire life, so would it make sense for her to be over trusting and think she's bravely sacrificing herself for her family? But then, I've also stated in the story that MC has been taught by her caretakers to read, and I'm afraid that might make readers think she's dumb because surely goodness, even with limited access to books, she's at some point in her life read a story where the villain broke a promise...Or...maybe not?

What do y'all think? Under these^ circumstances should she eat the apple or not? (This is a fairly traditional fantasy retelling, btw, but with certain carefully placed twists to freshen things up.)

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Well, depends on what kind of stories she's read. It's not unusual for villains to be honourable or for vows to be binding, especially in old stories and for nobility, so Snow White might think she's being genre savvy by getting the queen to swear on her name or something, but then the cold reality is that, nope, crossing your fingers behind your back negates that for everyone, even queens.

Jade A said:

happy belated Mental Health day and current National Coming Out day!

that sounds like a really powerful piece

my fiance told everyone their new name today! CONNOR! they're officially out. I'm really proud of them

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I think it is. Although it might not be good that I call pizza a healthy alternative.

Yay! Good on Connor! Good, strong name. High-five to them.

greendragon said:

Maelan is an honorable soldier, but he cannot fight young love.
His honor is at stake, but so is his granddaughter’s happiness.

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greendragon said:

An impossible choice and a daring rescue

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Top three in no particular order.

Damoclian said:

Jade, I'mma 'bout to tell you something you NEED to do STAT, upon seeing of this missive. HI-5 CONNOR LIKE THERE'S NO TOMORROW!!! :O :O And then tell them again how incredibly awesome-like and totes mega brave they are because heck, dude/bro/individual, that's supe's ultra amazing and rad and honestly, if i'm being honest, and I am being honest here: They're swanky as all-get-out for this!!

I remember changing my name once upon a time, it's still a sore spot for me (the old name), but I have grown far enough away from it and the people who still use it that most of the time it never comes up, and that's GREAT! So, in conclusion, hi-5 Connor, compliment their great name choice, and be just as fantastic of a future-spouse as you are being right NAO!

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Religion0 said:

Yay! Good on Connor! Good, strong name. High-five to them.

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will do they're getting tons of high-fives

greendragon said:

Excellent feedback, Dammy, thank you!

Second try:
Taglines:
Could you choose between your granddaughter’s life—or her happiness?
Maelan is an honorable soldier, but he cannot fight young love.
His honor is at stake, but so is his granddaughter’s happiness.
Young love can mean young death.


Blurb:
In 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland, all Maelan wants is to do his duty to his Chief and maintain his family’s good name. However, his granddaughter Orlagh, is hell bent on ruining everything.
When Orlagh falls in love with an itinerant bard, Maelan must rule with an iron fist to keep her from running away.
He fails.
The result is a quest, several bargains with the Fae, and an ultimate choice that will affect their lives forever.

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I really like these blurbs/taglines

greendragon said:

So now I'm curious why they don't want stories about Fae - perhaps they're under a geis? Or they've been to Faerie and are under command by the queen...

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Someone should write a story about that!

Richard White said:

I suspect too many D&D Dark Elf rip-offs or Tolkeinesque elves - Tall, haughty, and impossibly beautiful - are being submitted these days.

I intend to use some elves in a novel, but they'll be based more on the Norse dark, light, and gray elves ...

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Sometimes I worry that people will hate on and/or automatically pass on "In Dreams They Came" simply because of the presence of elves, and since IDTC is basically my beloved first-born book-child, it is a pretty big worry sometimes. But then, I don't think I'm doing the carbon-copy thing with my elves that some people do with them, in large part because I treat them like all of my characters: As individuals with their own unique experiences, opinions, and abilities, not just "the elves behave this way because elves". Then I start to think that, if someone hates on and/or automatically passes on my book just because they see the word elf that's not really my problem, and they probably aren't my target audience anyway, so good on them for going and reading what they prefer instead. I've come too far on this thing to quit now, darn it, and I'll write what I like the way I like, and with good marketing, my like-minded readers will hopefully find me.

As for the novel I hope to eventually write that expands on my Sisyphus story "Space Elves" I'm still debating if I want to keep the elves as elves, or change them to something else. It'll be a long while before I work on that in earnest, though, so plenty of time to think about it and make a decision.

Religion0 said:

Well, depends on what kind of stories she's read. It's not unusual for villains to be honourable or for vows to be binding, especially in old stories and for nobility, so Snow White might think she's being genre savvy by getting the queen to swear on her name or something, but then the cold reality is that, nope, crossing your fingers behind your back negates that for everyone, even queens.

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Good points, Rel! I like them. Thanks!


Okay, my book review has been written and I am now being seriously unfocused and need to go work on my story instead. *turns off internet*

Oh, hey! Do you guys remember that adorifying elephant game I just had to share with you? It has now landed, I have now wasted more time on than perhaps I should have, and it's adorable and hilarious. I like the lore of it, too. Very cool, might just steal and adapt some of it. I almost want to do a way to elaborate and over the top fanfic of it. It also has references everywhere, to The Last Airbender, to Zelda, many others. So cute.

"An impossible choice and a daring rescue" has many aspects to it. Since the story is in two different POVs, each part could apply to EITHER of the main characters. And in opposite ways - each has to face an impossible choice, and the daring rescue (in the grandfather's eyes) is actually a kidnapping in the granddaughter's eyes, but he does rescue her earlier from drowning...

Is that too complex?

greendragon said:

"An impossible choice and a daring rescue" has many aspects to it. Since the story is in two different POVs, each part could apply to EITHER of the main characters. And in opposite ways - each has to face an impossible choice, and the daring rescue (in the grandfather's eyes) is actually a kidnapping in the granddaughter's eyes, but he does rescue her earlier from drowning...

Is that too complex?

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Not at all! Makes it better, IMO.

If you go with that one though, I'd find a way to work 'honorable soldier but can't fight young love/his headstrong grandaughter' (with whatever connecting words) into the blurb because I really like the turn of phrase.

Urgh. Only two chapters until the #3 draft is through, and I'm at that point where I'm questioning everything about my writing - from word choice, to punctuation, to content, to the choices that brought me to this very moment.

Vacillating between extremes is always so tiring. It's either "my writing's hot shit" or "no one will ever want to read this", changing several times from dawn till dusk.

I feel like a cliché - a bad one at that.

greendragon said:

"An impossible choice and a daring rescue" has many aspects to it. Since the story is in two different POVs, each part could apply to EITHER of the main characters. And in opposite ways - each has to face an impossible choice, and the daring rescue (in the grandfather's eyes) is actually a kidnapping in the granddaughter's eyes, but he does rescue her earlier from drowning...

Is that too complex?

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My vote goes to this one, and I like the blurb redo-age. So there. Good job GD!

Eilyfe said:

Urgh. Only two chapters until the #3 draft is through, and I'm at that point where I'm questioning everything about my writing - from word choice, to punctuation, to content, to the choices that brought me to this very moment.

Vacillating between extremes is always so tiring. It's either "my writing's hot shit" or "no one will ever want to read this", changing several times from dawn till dusk.

I feel like a cliché - a bad one at that.

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You come into MY Cantina. You experience MY insecurities. You vacillate between MY emotional extremes. You are ME. Stahp eeettt!

Religion0 said:

Oh, hey! Do you guys remember that adorifying elephant game I just had to share with you? It has now landed, I have now wasted more time on than perhaps I should have, and it's adorable and hilarious. I like the lore of it, too. Very cool, might just steal and adapt some of it. I almost want to do a way to elaborate and over the top fanfic of it. It also has references everywhere, to The Last Airbender, to Zelda, many others. So cute.

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That sounds lovely and reminds me of my own project...
You know that story I wrote for you last Sisyphus? The less than adequately finished one with the bear and the unicorn blood donor and the mediocrely explained magic-system and all the anthropomorphic animals??? There's elephantine space aliens in the sequel now (literally aliens from space and stuff, on a magical living ship that turned into some mountains), and they are real heckin' coolio. There's even a fastidious mastodon. :O I kinda wanna give said mastodon her own book... >.> Her name is "Safjre"

Has anybody ever heard of/tried Fictionary?