Alabama Senate Race

And there is that sweet clip of Bannon slinking out of Alabama after his huge blowhard rally like an egg sucking hound. Viewing and reviewing it warms my heart like Christmas lights and gingerbread in a warm oven.

Also, although I am a lifelong Democrat, I can deal with run of the mill, rational Republicans. In fact I want to see them elected, want to hear their thoughts, want to negotiate with them, because hearing and weighing different opinions is what makes a democracy government by the people not government by one party with absolute powers. Seems like the We in we the people is waking up to this fact. Government is not a sports event. I'm tired of people thinking it has to be. There is no #1. There is only research and intelligent decisions. --s6

Still can't get complacent or take this turnout for granted.

RedRajah said:

Still can't get complacent or take this turnout for granted.

Click to expand...

Definitely not, but I think this ground game provides a good map going forward. If the national Dems will follow it, that is. Get out POC voters and all millennials in force. Plus, push non-evangelical white women off their complacent butts. (I say that as a member of this constituency, the non-complacent side.)

RedRajah said:

Still can't get complacent or take this turnout for granted.

Click to expand...

True, and - like others - I still expect another terrible, stinking shoe to drop and trip up the parade, but it's been so long since I had anything resembling hope I'm trying to enjoy it while it lasts.

RedRajah said:

Still can't get complacent or take this turnout for granted.

Click to expand...

I'm staying involved with Sister District (we sent postcards for Doug Jones) and in other ways continuing to support liberal candidates around the country and organizations fighting voter suppression. I'm in my fifties and I've never been complacent about elections or politics in general. It's been hard to watch all the things I've been working against and raising the alarm about for years come to pass. I'll take and celebrate each victory but I don't take a day off from activism. Too much is at stake.

It's quite strange looking in at this from the other side of the pond. I'm surprised the result turned out so close given Moore's background. Is it a case of Republican voters not believing the allegations of kiddy fiddling, or do they just not care, as long as their vote isn't for a democrat?

D.A Watson said:

It's quite strange looking in at this from the other side of the pond. I'm surprised the result turned out so close given Moore's background. Is it a case of Republican voters not believing the allegations of kiddy fiddling, or do they just not care, as long as their vote isn't for a democrat?

Click to expand...

Sadly, many Republicans have bought into the concept that the MSM is "fake news" and that the attacks on Moore's character were made up. I'm not sure how we move forward this way.

What gets me are the people who say both of these things:

- "Things were different back then. It was more socially acceptable."

- "Why didn't they report it at the time?

--- The cognitive dissonance, it burns. If they genuinely believe it wasn't a big deal back then (it was, but that's beside the point), then why would they expect the women to have reported it?

Is it just me, or does it look like someone's hacked Trump's Twitter account?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/940795587733151744

D.A Watson said:

It's quite strange looking in at this from the other side of the pond. I'm surprised the result turned out so close given Moore's background. Is it a case of Republican voters not believing the allegations of kiddy fiddling, or do they just not care, as long as their vote isn't for a democrat?

Click to expand...

^^^this, my husband and I watched the election last night and we though the same thing.

Jan74 said:

^^^this, my husband and I watched the election last night and we though the same thing.

Click to expand...

I think it's disingenuous to underestimate the cultural divide here. For a lot of GOP voters, the issue is abortion, full stop, and that means they need a Republican in the seat. Any Republican.

And if the GOP had had the brains to boot Moore and replace him with someone less morally odious, they might have won this election.

I wrote this morning about why sane people cannot become complacent over single victories. Moore and Trump are merely symptoms. http://www.cranehanabooks.com/blog/2017/12/13/doug-jones-and-the-republican-soul/

lizmonster said:

I think it's disingenuous to underestimate the cultural divide here. For a lot of GOP voters, the issue is abortion, full stop, and that means they need a Republican in the seat. Any Republican.

And if the GOP had had the brains to boot Moore and replace him with someone less morally odious, they might have won this election.

Click to expand...

Would have won, I’d say.

shakeysix said:

Government is not a sports event. I'm tired of people thinking it has to be. There is no #1. There is only research and intelligent decisions. --s6

Click to expand...

Maybe it would be better if it was considered a sports event. I'm looking at this from the outside, being Canadian, but here's the thing: in sports, you have rules, and your opponents are opponents. In politics, particularly American politics, they've become enemies. The difference is that you may trash-talk an opponent, but you can sit down with them over a beer after the game is over. With an enemy, any tactic is fair game--the only thing that matters is to win.

Alessandra Kelley said:

I have seen news sources calling that post “gracious” and if that is what passes for the present standard for gracious then we have fallen very far indeed from the honest grace, decency and dignity of President Obama.

I see just as much whining and fist-waving menacing threat in that as ever, merely sugared over, presumably by some personal assistant.

I expect That Man will return to form soon enough.

Click to expand...

Also, that tweet was last night. I, too, suspect someone else wrote it.

As for the Trumpian voters in AL, NPR went in on Monday and the level of cognitive dissonance on display in their interviews was stunning. I can't even count how many voters said, "I don't believe the charges" and "They haven't been proven." The one that really got me, though, was the guy who said, "Judge Moore never had a whiff of scandal about him in 40 years, then all of a sudden, these scurrilous claims come out."

For one, he's been kicked off the Supreme Court TWICE, but they don't count that as scandal.

Residents of Moore's home town and his early-career colleagues ALL knew his predilictions. The mall banned him. But that's not proof.

The trouble is, the "news" outlets these characters listen to will only reinforce the misinformation, as do charlatans like Bannon. This subset of voters cannot be swayed, and I'm fully prepared to write them off as the 30% of intractable ones, IF...IF the democrats can stay organized from the grassroots on up. It's going to take a herculean effort. They are enough people to drag us back into the pit if those people who find their views abhorrent don't get out, get registered, and cast their vote.

On the upside, with Bannon declaring war on all the republicans casting him as a villain now, he might rip the fabric of the party to the point they have to moderate to find voters.

Filigree said:

Moore and Trump are merely symptoms.

Click to expand...

1000% this.

shakeysix said:

And there is that sweet clip of Bannon slinking out of Alabama after his huge blowhard rally like an egg sucking hound. Viewing and reviewing it warms my heart like Christmas lights and gingerbread in a warm oven.

Click to expand...

That makes it all worth while just by itself.

Also, although I am a lifelong Democrat, I can deal with run of the mill, rational Republicans. In fact I want to see them elected, want to hear their thoughts, want to negotiate with them, because hearing and weighing different opinions is what makes a democracy government by the people not government by one party with absolute powers. Seems like the We in we the people is waking up to this fact. Government is not a sports event. I'm tired of people thinking it has to be. There is no #1. There is only research and intelligent decisions. --s6

Click to expand...

It's been so long since I've seen a rational, run-of-the-mill Republican that I've forgotten what they're like. Their mass extinction started in the 80s, when Reagan sold their party's soul to religious conservatism.

ElaineA said:

For one, he's been kicked off the Supreme Court TWICE, but they don't count that as scandal.

.

Click to expand...

Once for his refusal to follow a court order to remove a massive shrine to the Ten Commandments from public space and once over his statement that the SCOTUS ruling on same-gender marriage be ignored by his state.

These are positions that far too many white voters in Alabama appear to agree with. He's a hero to many of them because of this.

I know that my two closest friends who are Republicans--guys who are more fiscally conservative than I am but still don't want to burn the public sector down and who think that smaller government means keeping legislation out of people's bedrooms and away from women's bodies--finally gave up on their party this year. As one said, "There isn't even anyone running in the primaries anymore whom I wouldn't be ashamed to vote for."

D.A Watson said:

It's quite strange looking in at this from the other side of the pond. I'm surprised the result turned out so close given Moore's background. Is it a case of Republican voters not believing the allegations of kiddy fiddling, or do they just not care, as long as their vote isn't for a democrat?

Click to expand...

It is, I think, a case that they have demonized Democrats to the point where they *have* to believe that Moore isn't a pedophile racist moron. Because otherwise, they'd face such cognitive dissonance their brains would explode. So you could say they don't believe because they don't care.

Listening to Doug Jones's press conference on CNN, tuned in just as he was answering some question from the crowd with "I am not voting with the Democrats or the Republicans, I am voting for the people of Alabama." I may be misquoting slightly, but he seems to be going middle-of-the-road, interesting to see what he actually does.

lizmonster said:

I think it's disingenuous to underestimate the cultural divide here. For a lot of GOP voters, the issue is abortion, full stop, and that means they need a Republican in the seat. Any Republican.

And if the GOP had had the brains to boot Moore and replace him with someone less morally odious, they might have won this election.

Click to expand...

You think I'm disingenuous? Or am I misunderstanding you. How can abortion be the issue in 2017? Really...this is an issue? Are we in a time warp where people want women to return to the 1950's with little rights and freedoms, especially over her own body? How can there even be a debate about this? Do they still believe the earth is only 10,000 years old and it's flat?

Jan74 said:

You think I'm disingenuous? Or am I misunderstanding you. How can abortion be the issue in 2017? Really...this is an issue? Are we in a time warp where people want women to return to the 1950's with little rights and freedoms, especially over her own body? How can there even be a debate about this? Do they still believe the earth is only 10,000 years old and it's flat?

Click to expand...

My apologies - I wasn't addressing the comment to you in particular, and I absolutely didn't mean to offend anyone by using that word.

But yes, abortion is a huge issue in 2017 in the US. For many people, it's the single issue on which they decide their vote. The GOP has been angling to re-criminalize abortion since 1980, and they've done a damn good job of making them nearly impossible to get in parts of the country. I don't know if the fetal personhood language is still in the reconciled tax bill, but if it is, you'll see states start passing laws pretty damn quickly.

Women have never had legal dominion over their own bodies in this country. Never.

Jan74 said:

Really...this is an issue?

Click to expand...

Yep.

Jan74 said:

Are we in a time warp where people want women to return to the 1950's with little rights and freedoms, especially over her own body?

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly.

Jan74 said:

Do they still believe the earth is only 10,000 years old and it's flat?

Click to expand...

Some of them, yes, although that's outside the scope of this topic.

Jan74 said:

How can there even be a debate about this?

Click to expand...

I can see the perspective in their talking points. "The fetus didn't do anything wrong, it's a life (kinda), blah, blah, blah." But while I DO believe some people genuinely believe that, far more pretend to believe it, yet contradict themselves. (I.e., those people who are "against abortion - except in cases of incest or rape." If the focus is the fetus, it's equally innocent regardless of how it came into existence and those details shouldn't matter at all. That mentality only makes sense if the underlying mentality is one of controlling women, where the pregnancy is a punishment for foolishly having unprotected sex (never mind that, short of a hysterectomy, there's no such thing as foolproof birth control, and the sex may have been protected six ways from Sunday, and it's really nobody's business anyway).

I saw a new one today. Someone said, "I'm pro-life, because I would never, ever get an abortion myself. However, I would never force that opinion on someone else." ...I don't think she realized that not forcing other people to carry a pregnancy to term because you recognize that not all circumstances are the same is pretty much the textbook definition of "pro-choice."