[Publisher] Baen Books

Hi all! I'm new to the forum, but have checked in on this thread from time to time to see if there are any updates as I have a ms with Baen. I'll share my ongoing time-line with you. It ain't purdy, but I've come this far so intend to see it out. Most likely. I think. Anyhow...

Date of original submission: 3/28/15 (Yes, 2015)
All but forgot about it and was on the verge of self-pubbing when I received "selected out of the slush pile for closer examination" on 9/24/15
6/9/16 I queried as to the status and was told "we're down to about 30 'good enough for a second look' manuscripts ahead of yours."
1/4/17 I queried as to the status and was told "we're down to just over a dozen ahead of yours."
6/22/17 I received an email that my ms was "strongly recommended by our first readers...made it to the Publisher's desk" and was in the hands of the senior editor. So I asked for some idea of how long the process would take from that point and was told, "Unfortunately, it's harder to estimate the timing from here forward. At this point, four of us have read your book and I put together a comprehensive report on it with inputs from the others. Now it's in our publisher's hands, and she will weigh our recommendation against a lot of factors -- the number and kinds of fantasies versus science fiction novels we have coming out each month over the next couple of years (most of which are coming from established authors by way of existing contracts), the prevalence of similar thematic elements from your novel in others we have recently published or have in the pipeline, the sales performance of novels similar to yours, etc., etc. -- as well as her opinion of the story itself.
How long will that take? I've seen the recommendation-to-acceptance loop get closed in a matter of weeks, and I've seen us hold on to recommended MSS for years -- literally, years -- out of a hope that the right slot will open up in time. That stems from our reluctance to say "no" if there's a chance that we might say "yes."
I know that doesn't really answer the question, but it's the best I can do. "

So, from first submission to now...1012 days

I feel I've stuck with it this long, I don't really want to pull the plug now. Though there are days I am sorely, sorely, sorely tempted.

~Kathi

Kathi, thanks for being brave and honest. This is a decent publisher, but their wait time has been legendarily slow.

There's another caveat I've heard from *several* sources: if you get an offer, get an agent's help before moving forward. I can't give you specific reasons why, but having an agent might be critical.

Seconding on getting an agent to negotiate any deals. Baen is one of the best, but when it comes to contracts, any publisher will have all advantages slanted in their favor. This includes film and foreign sales rights, first look at your next book, etc.

If, after all this time, they decide not to accept, then absolutely send it off to another house that does similar books. A big one. The fact that the MS is getting such interest is awesome. If it goes pear-shaped, then another place might be delighted to get a Baen "reject." Just don't mention the whole Baen thing!

They are slow. Despite their high standing in the industry, they don't have that big a staff so it can and does take a long time. They can be considered a "small" publisher, and those are pickier than the big machines of houses who can take a chance on a new writer.

If they do say no, shop it to an agent. They're spending a lot of time on it, which means an agent might see what they see. Look up writers who do similar books and see who reps for them. Those will be the names on your submission list.

Keep your head from exploding, be working on your next three books!

I shopped the manuscript to agents for a year before/during sending it to Baen. Received one request for a partial and that was all. Perhaps I'll take another look at my list and resubmit to a few. Would it pay to do that while the manuscript is still sitting in limbo? I have already decided DAW will be my next submission if/when I hear from Baen in the negative. If I didn't believe in them as "one of the good guys" I wouldn't have sat on it this long. I absolutely LOVE the ms and want it to do well but... jeepers. This traditional publishing thing. Torture, I tell ya!!

That being said, another thing that gave me hope and kept me from pulling was either reading an interview or listening to a podcast in which Gray Reinhart mentioned that he doesn't particularly care for first person (which the ms is written in) so it has to be fairly outstanding for him to move it on.

I have to admit, it was very difficult for me to move on to another book as I wanted to stay in that world and continue with it. I finally had to force myself to sit it firmly on the back burner and move on. So, yeah, I've another in the works and a couple short stories out and about.

I would say you don't want to query agents again until you get an offer of publication, but...

Even though it could still be quite a while until you hear back from Baen, it wouldn't hurt to put together a letter/email to send to agents in the event you do get an offer. That way you're all set with a letter and list to query and won't feel rushed. If you don't get an offer, you might query those folks anyway. It could be the market has changed since you tried last and you'll have more success with an agent. Or maybe your query letter just needs more polish to catch their eye.

Best of luck as you move forward.

zanzjan said:

Meanwhile, welcome to AW

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Thanks.

Well, it was eating away at my writer-soul for a while. But I have a generally great support team and the tenacity of a ratter so I eventually was able to move on to something else. As Emily Dickinson put it,

" This is the Hour of Lead –
Remembered, if outlived,
As Freezing persons, recollect the Snow –
First – Chill – then Stupor – then the letting go –"

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Aggy B. said:

it wouldn't hurt to put together a letter/email to send to agents in the event you do get an offer. That way you're all set with a letter and list to query and won't feel rushed. If you don't get an offer, you might query those folks anyway. It could be the market has changed since you tried last and you'll have more success with an agent. Or maybe your query letter just needs more polish to catch their eye.

Best of luck as you move forward.

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Yes, already made out my new list following Gilloughy's suggestion of looking at those agents from authors with similar books. I was surprised at how few on that list were actually on my original list as well. Makes me wonder if I pitched to the wrong folks. A few were the same, but not nearly what I expected.

Thanks!

Just thought I'd pop in with another update. A year after being told my ms made it to the publisher's desk, I queried to see if it was still there, or had perhaps fallen through the cracks. The answer: "Yes, yours is one of several recommended novels that Ms. Weisskopf has been considering. I'm sorry it's taking so much additional time, but as I've told other folks: we don't like to say "no" if there's a chance that we might say "yes." "

They don't 'allow' simultaneous subs so I guess I'll continue to sit tight. I'd love to send it off somewhere else, but I think if I consider that seriously, then I'd let them know first. I can't believe I have this much patience. Fortunately, life has gotten super busy this year and I barely have time to write, so that means I have less time to stew over the long timeline.

KathiLS said:

Just thought I'd pop in with another update. A year after being told my ms made it to the publisher's desk, I queried to see if it was still there, or had perhaps fallen through the cracks. The answer: "Yes, yours is one of several recommended novels that Ms. Weisskopf has been considering. I'm sorry it's taking so much additional time, but as I've told other folks: we don't like to say "no" if there's a chance that we might say "yes." "

They don't 'allow' simultaneous subs so I guess I'll continue to sit tight. I'd love to send it off somewhere else, but I think if I consider that seriously, then I'd let them know first. I can't believe I have this much patience. Fortunately, life has gotten super busy this year and I barely have time to write, so that means I have less time to stew over the long timeline.

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Congratulations but I have to say - tbh, I tend to ignore the no simultaneous submissions thing. YMMV - but I'd still submit it elsewhere (to agents, other publishers) just in case. A publisher (or agent) can easily hold on to a manuscript for a couple of years and then simply send a form no, at which point it can feel like all the patience and loyalty was wasted. I'd never put all my eggs in one basket like that. Others might (and probably will) disagree with me on this, but just my 2 cents. I hope they accept your MS.

Baen is legendary, but that mms has been with them *how long*? Toni's still sitting on it?

Get it back out there. If someone else bites, Baen can put up or shut up. And seriously, even if Baen says 'yes', you really, really need an agent before accepting the offer.

The simultaneous submission thing is a bit fuzzy. From a blog:

"They also prefer that you submit your work just to them, but if your work is accepted elsewhere they would like to be notified as soon as possible."

And... Baen currently states the policy as a preference, in their faqs.

Kathi--What's the good word?

Patty said:

The simultaneous submission thing is a bit fuzzy. From a blog:

"They also prefer that you submit your work just to them, but if your work is accepted elsewhere they would like to be notified as soon as possible."

And... Baen currently states the policy as a preference, in their faqs.

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I listened to a podcast awhile back where (IIRC) it was explained like this -- you're welcome to sub it elsewhere, but if you get another offer, that's not going to incite them to read faster or bump your manuscript up from its current place in line -- at that point you'd have to decide whether to take the other offer or remain in Baen's queue.

That seems reasonable, and given the wait times, the only real option they have (besides bumping folks in the queue ). IOW no real down side in simultaneous subs, especially given the odds of surviving slush.

Patty said:

The simultaneous submission thing is a bit fuzzy. From a blog:

"They also prefer that you submit your work just to them, but if your work is accepted elsewhere they would like to be notified as soon as possible."

And... Baen currently states the policy as a preference, in their faqs.

Kathi--What's the good word?

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I don't actually have a good word. My ms is still in limbo. 1,599 days from original submission. The last 782 of them 'on the editor's desk'. My mid-summer query brought me the standard, "we appreciate your continued patience. We don't want to say 'no' if there's a chance we'll say 'yes'.

I did try to get an agent in the meantime. No success. I did send it to a couple other publishers. No success. I thought about pulling it and self-pubbing but on the advice of my Street Team, I'm going to continue to let it sit where it is until I complete at least the first draft of book two. At which point, I will consider pulling it and going the indie route. That way, book two is ready shortly behind book one.

KathiLS said:

My ms is still in limbo. 1,599 days from original submission. The last 782 of them 'on the editor's desk'.

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Wow.

KathiLS said:

I did try to get an agent in the meantime. No success.

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I'd heard in the olden days that Jim Baen refused to deal with agents. He'd even withdrawn an acceptance when he found out the author had signed with an agent in the months after they submitted. I'm hoping this is no longer the case.

Four years in limbo is unconscionable.

And the latest update in this saga for those who are curious as to the outcome... I wrote Baen September 24 to check the status of my ms, assuming it has been lost or rejected. This morning I received this reply: No, your MS has not been lost, nor has it been rejected. It is one of about 30 novels that Ms. Weisskopf is considering that have been recommended out of the slush. Again I apologize for the delay and inconvenience. It has been on Ms. Weisskopf's desk since 6/22/17. Yes, 1232 days. This manuscript was originally summited in 2015.

As I am now nearing completion on the second book, I will be likely be pulling the submission and indie pubbing it. Would I like to be a Baen author? Sure. Am I going to wait another year or more to get this now massively overhauled ms out to the public? No can do.

If that statement was accurate about being one of thirty, and it seems remarkably specific for a gentle "does not suit our needs" brushoff, then it's a tough call. Baen has a slush pile a mile high, and 1 of 30 is a long way to come for a manuscript.

KathiLS said:

And the latest update in this saga for those who are curious as to the outcome... I wrote Baen September 24 to check the status of my ms, assuming it has been lost or rejected. This morning I received this reply: No, your MS has not been lost, nor has it been rejected. It is one of about 30 novels that Ms. Weisskopf is considering that have been recommended out of the slush. Again I apologize for the delay and inconvenience. It has been on Ms. Weisskopf's desk since 6/22/17. Yes, 1232 days. This manuscript was originally summited in 2015.

As I am now nearing completion on the second book, I will be likely be pulling the submission and indie pubbing it. Would I like to be a Baen author? Sure. Am I going to wait another year or more to get this now massively overhauled ms out to the public? No can do.

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OMG. I admire your patience. Whatever your decision is, I wish you good luck.

To those wondering, the end to my Baen tale. I wrote them last month to check status and received the same reply as before. In the meantime I have prepped it for indie publication so decided to let them know that if there was no further progress by January 15, I was pulling the ms from consideration. I received a very nice response and their regrets that they haven't made a decision as of yet. They even went so far as to include many comments made by the group that had read it. Some of which have been addressed in various revisions beyond what they currently have. The ms was highly thought of, apparently, just not high enough to come to a decision. I was encouraged to submit again in the future, which I may do if I have a ms it won't bother me to allow to languish.

For those curious, I first submitted this ms in March of 2015. It was pulled from the slushpile in September of the same year. June of 2017 it was "strongly recommended by our first readers... made it to the Publisher's desk and was in the hands of the senior editor." And there it has sat ever since.

As much as I would like to be a Baen author, I would also like to get this work into the public's hands. I have pulled and will self publish.

BTW, if you like Scott Lynch and Douglas Hulick and would like an ARC, reach out to me. Or connect on Goodreads.

Received their "selected out of the slush pile for closer examination" yesterday after 7 and a half months.
And Kath, I would be interested in reading your book

waylander said:

Recieved their "selected out of the slush pile for closer examination" yesterday after 7 and a half months.
And Kath, I would be interested in reading your book

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Congratulations!! With their track record, 7.5 months sounds like a speedy start.

Received my rejection from their slush pile yesterday. That's a blazing fast 6 month response, the best I've heard of from Baen's slush pile. I suppose that's testimony to how far off the mark my mss was.