3rd person multiple with a dash of Omniscient

Xeen · Feb 28, 2008

At least... I think that's what I'm doing.

Oh yeah. You guys never see me around 'cause I'm a flake. But I hope to hang out here more often.

Okay. I finished my fictionyfantasy series... and now I'm rewriting. YAY!

I believe it would be considered 3rd person multiple, sometimes a little Omniscient. *shrug* Its my job to translate the stuff that filters through my head and I think I do an o-kay job.

My concern is that other readers won't like the head hopping. I've read through a bunch of POV threads here and finding myself a bit lost as to what to do. I like to think that my fantasy series is an enjoyable read and that the head-jumping enriches it, and my characters are strong and awesome. To keep to one head would be very difficult and probably feel like constipation.

That's not BS ego talking, either. The rest of my writings are not so divine.

The head hopping doesn't happen a lot. Maybe every couple chapters and they're always at really good times, when something is settling down, going a little dry, or what I hope is a little encouragement for the reader to keep reading to see what happens.

Now, I have no money and our libraries are closed (and I don't mean in the "Check back in the morning" closed), but what I'd like from all y'all is reading suggestions for other 3rd person multiple written books. I want to put said books on a list and if our libraries ever open back up, I plan to go on a reading frenzy.

Or even some online books would work.

Whilst I was poking around on POV here I read something about Nora Roberts... she does this 3rd person multiple thing, yes?

Yes, I'm a writer who hasn't read much in years

Sad, I know. The only writer I'm familiar with doing this is Stephen King.

Now, to jump to a head hundreds of miles away... weee!

-Angela

Raphee · Feb 28, 2008

Orhan pamuk's SNOW is 3rd person with a dash of omni.
It is literary work. Has a frame, where the narrator focuses on the protag, but sometimes jumps off into other heads. He does this very few times, but in a manner that you don't feel the switch.

Raphee · Feb 28, 2008

By feel I mean, the head hop is not glaring. It is the way the author decided to write and you can see it is a great author at work.

HeronW · Feb 28, 2008

Check out ebooks online to fill in the reading gaps:
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/
http://www.digitalbookindex.com/search001a.htm
http://www.free-ebooks.net/
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/

maestrowork · Feb 28, 2008

Why not writing it in 3rd omniscient?

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 28, 2008

That sounds like 3rd person omniscient to me.

And "one head per scene" is the general rule. You don't see many writers breaking that rule, even back in the glory days of the 19th century when everyone wrote in omniscient.

I don't mind lots of points of view in a book. What bugs me is:

"John saw the zombies beginning to gather outside the house. He knew that, as darkness fell, they'd become bolder. Mary saw them too, and felt a chill of fear at the base of her neck. John cursed himself for not having stocked the house with more wood to reinforce their makeshift barricades. Mary wondered if they would make it out alive."

Bufty · Feb 28, 2008

If one is simply changing POV it isn't head-hopping. I'm not really sure what the OP is doing - or why - I hope the OP does. Head-hopping (or head-jumping -whatever) is glaring no matter how it's done. It's called head-hopping because it is obvious and jarring.

Xeen · Feb 28, 2008

Raphee - Awesome, thanks for the recommendation

HenronW - E-books are a good idea though I generally get too distracted on the computer to read them

But I'll definitely look there.

IceCreamEmpress - From what I gathered, the one head-per-scene sounded like a good general rule. Its good to hear that you don't mind many POVs... makes me feel loads better

As for your Zombie example: I used to do that -years- ago. Every once in a great while I'll catch myself doing it and fix it right away.

Bufty - From what I was reading here at Absolute Write, there were many people using the head-hopping term interchangeably with third-person. If its different, I'd like to see an example comparing the two... and if I read wrong and it wasn't being used interchangeably *shrug* I don't mind being corrected. That's why I'm here!

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 28, 2008

"Head hopping" is when you change points of view from sentence to sentence. Like my bad zombie fiction example.

Someone who manages omniscient with many points of view brilliantly, in my opinion, is Terry Pratchett.

ReneC · Feb 28, 2008

Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series. It's a limited-omniscience point of view from the perspective of only a few characters. Each character had entire chapters from their points of view, with only rare exceptions.

For example, in the first book, the prologue is told by a character long before the events of the book take place. The first chapter starts as omniscient, then in two paragraphs narrows right down onto the MC. The POV remains with that character until he and his friends split up, and then another character's point of view is introduced, followed by a third. The POV for the duration of the book is shared between these three characters until the very end, when a small passage is told from the POV of a fourth character.

Robert Jordan's mastery of POV allowed him to set up story elements that would otherwise not have been possible. It's a terrific example of how effective POV can be to a story.

Xeen · Feb 28, 2008

ReneC said:
For example, in the first book, the prologue is told by a character long before the events of the book take place. The first chapter starts as omniscient, then in two paragraphs narrows right down onto the MC. The POV remains with that character until he and his friends split up, and then another character's point of view is introduced, followed by a third. The POV for the duration of the book is shared between these three characters until the very end, when a small passage is told from the POV of a fourth character.

Holy mother of all that is sacred and delicious.

That's -exactly- how I've been writing my series.

I -need- to get a hold of that series.

Okay, now I feel even better about allowing this whole POV thing.

Thank you! ^_^

Oh, and as for the head hopping.... is it would be an an extreme example of POV changes?

Chasing the Horizon · Feb 28, 2008

Head hopping is like IceCreamExpress's example, changing POVs mid-paragraph or very frequently for no apparent reason. When someone's head hopping, it's clear they have no control over the POV in their story. Mid-scene POV changes, on the other hand, are something many talented authors (Stephen King, Nora Roberts, Marion Zimmer Bradley), choose to do in order to enrich their characters and stories. A proper POV change happens at a transition point in the scene, begins a new paragraph, clarifies in the first sentence who's POV we've changed to, and doesn't happen more than once or twice during a scene. When handled well, there's no reason why a mid-scene POV change should be jarring or confusing for readers. In fact, most readers won't even think about the fact the POV has changed because it feels perfectly natural (other writers who have a personal issue with POV changes will always notice and complain, of course, but are they really your target audience?).

I write in a very similar POV structure to Xeen. I think I'll check out Robert Jordon's work myself since I've never read any of his. I write this style because it's what I most enjoy reading too.

Xeen · Feb 28, 2008

Hope To The Horizon - Thanks your comments, they're encouraging. And always good to see a Sweeney Todd fan

Linda Adams · Mar 1, 2008

This is something I recently picked up about omniscient. If you want an example, read Clive Cussler, because he's the write I saw do this.

Clive Cussler does switch viewpoints in his books--but there's a transition in the switch. His books are in Camera View Omni, and transition is sometimes a subject change where it makes sense to see what the other person is thinking. Other times, when it's one POV to another, he shifts back up into camera view omni for a sentence, then drops back into the new POV. The transitions are pretty subtle, but they're enough so you don't notice the transition but also aren't disturbed by the change in viewpoint. That's the difference, I think, between a POV shift in mid-scene and head hopping. Head hopping just jumps from person to person and doesn't make a transition.

One of the things I also noticed is that he doesn't do it very often. It's not like I get a chapter and there's ten of them in it--it might be only a couple. The transitions are tough to do though--I've been doing omni for mine, and I have to pay a lot of attention to making that transition when I shift.

3rd person multiple with a dash of Omniscient

Xeen

Raphee

In debt to AW

Raphee

In debt to AW

HeronW

Down Under Fan

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Xeen

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

ReneC

Relapsed insomniac :(

Xeen

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

Xeen

Linda Adams

Soldier, Storyteller