Dorrance / Whitmore / RoseDog Books / Red Lead Press / I-Proclaim

It's been said before on this thread, but it's always worth repeating. Rather than use the net as the first place to search for a publisher (where you're likely to come across scammers advertising for victims), check your book shelves and nearby bookshops first. For example, I seem to own mostly HarperCollins Voyager, Orbit, Tor and Orion/Gollancz books in my (UK) SF/F collection, so I would want to look them up first. At this point, with a list in hand, it might be worth researching the names you've gathered on the net or in a book.

mistri said:

It's been said before on this thread, but it's always worth repeating. Rather than use the net as the first place to search for a publisher (where you're likely to come across scammers advertising for victims), check your book shelves and nearby bookshops first.

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I second this very good advice. A good print market guide, such as Jeff Herman's book, is also a good place to begin.

The Internet is an invaluable adjunct research resource, but it should NOT be where you start looking for agents and publishers.

- Victoria

I'm not entirely convinced that print guides, such as Jeff Herman's which is good, are all that good. After all, those generally rely upon input from the agencies. For that reason, their information bears a distinct slant that always favors the agency.

On the other hand, sources on the Internet such as Writer Beware, Absolute Write, P&E, and others, have multiple sources for their information rather than from just the agencies. For that reason, the Internet sources carry less of a bias toward just one direction. In fact, I think we're in the process of seeing at least one type of reference book being supplanted.

Still, I do agree that writers should use multiple sources. Don't accept just one even if it's as good as those I've mentioned.

FWIW,

I started by a trip to the library and an afternoon with the Literary Marketplace. I made a list of agents that said they dealt with fantasy, then brought the list home and started doing cross-references between P&E, other beware sites, and Google searches. As to be expected, several of the agents had changed their contact info/websites/etc. since the book printing, or had closed entirely. I also subscribe to Publisher's Marketplace to see who is working with new writers or work that sounds similar to my own.

You have to do some work to find someone reliable and decent to work with. It's just like trying to find someone to remodel your kitchen, or do an addition to a house - you have to check them out, check their references, ask around to see if their work is shoddy or not.

It's very much a business relationship that you are going to enter into with an agent, and this may be the hardest thing for an aspiring writer to comprehend. At least, it was for me.

Karen

Allion is quite correct. Reminds me of a contractor I asked for an estimate last week for house siding. The contractor wanted me to state that we had a deal. I kept asking for the estimate. He finally left when I pointed out that I intended to not only check with other companies but that I would read his contract carefully before I signed anything.

The following day, we received a call from his office asking what the problem was which I explained and if they could send someone else. We agreed to let them send someone else the following night. He didn't appear until two nights later. He wanted to come in. I said he should measure the outside of the house so he could give me an estimate as that was what he was there for. Then I stepped back inside and closed the door. He rang the doorbell about fifteen minutes later. When I answered, he stated that he couldn't see his company working with us. I agreed and watched him leave. Too bad his company couldn't deal straight with me. I would have been paying cash for the siding and installation.

Whitmore now has one book in its on-line bookstore: The Hogs of Cold Harbor, [font=arial, helvetica]ISBN 0-87426-058-2[/font], $29.00 paperback.

(There is also an e-book edition, apparently a pdf file, for $24.00.)

So far the book is not listed with Ingram, nor is it on BN.com or Amazon.com.


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Update:

They have two non-fiction books:

Killing the Natives, paperback, [font=arial, helvetica]ISBN: 0-87426-059-0, $20.00, 218 pages (or $15 as a pdf file).
From Poverty to Potential, [/font][font=arial, helvetica]paperback, ISBN: 0-87426-060-4, $10.00, 54 pages (or $5 as a pdf file).

Neither is listed with the on-line booksellers.

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whitmore is now part of a vanity press, i am sorry to say. i contacted them, and they me, late last year. needless to say, i am still shopping the novel.

Annessa

The Whitmore that was around since 1961 went out of business in the early nineties. This new Whitmore (even though it lists that publisher's books on its webpage) doesn't have any apparent connection with the earlier one. Certainly all the books have long since reverted and the editing, production, and marketing staff moved on.

The current Whitmore is owned by a vanity press, Dorrance. Their web ads fill me with dread: "[size=-1]Book publisher seeking new authors. No publishing fee. We pay you.[/size]"

I would approach this one with extreme caution.

From what I've been told, Whitmore makes no attempt to market or distribute its books, apart from online listings. The cover prices are very high (this is consistent with a POD-based operation). It claims to send ARCs to reviewers, but even if it really does this, the likelihood of actually garnering a review is probably pretty slim.

- Victoria

On the positive side, Whitmore's advance is reportedly ten times higher than PublishAmerica's.

Yup, and rule of thumb--if a publisher is advertising there is something wrong. Good publishers don't need to advertise because they have enough submissions and slush piles to last them through the lean times.

I've been inundated with ads for this company lately. I think they smell blood in the water with PA and are getting ready to pounce on their market share.

I can just see two years from now, stickied at the top of this forum: The Neverending Whitmore Publishing Thread.

In tiny print at the bottom of their submissions web page:

By clicking submit, you agree to receive information about publishing services available from Whitmore Publishing and its affiliated companies.

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Niiiiiiiiiiice

Just a comment

James D. Macdonald said:

The Whitmore that was around since 1961 went out of business in the early nineties. This new Whitmore (even though it lists that publisher's books on its webpage) doesn't have any apparent connection with the earlier one. Certainly all the books have long since reverted and the editing, production, and marketing staff moved on.

The current Whitmore is owned by a vanity press, Dorrance. Their web ads fill me with dread: "[size=-1]Book publisher seeking new authors. No publishing fee. We pay you.[/size]"

I would approach this one with extreme caution.

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This sure sounds like PublishAmerica's saw. They almost snared me. Thanks to SFWA's Author Beware, I didn't sign the contract PA sent!

Anyone else notice that the Neverending PublishAmerica thread has Whitmore Publishing Google Ads starting to turn up in it? I have to wonder if they are deliberately targeting pages that mention Publish Anything.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that was a marketing ploy on their part! It sounds like the two companies are birds of a feather...Hopefully fewer people fall prey to them than PA!

Dorrance Publishing

Hi!

Perhaps someone could help me. Does anyone have any information about this publisher?

I must have done this a while ago and then forgot all about it, until I received this, sent as an attachment:

TO: author
RE: Request to review your completed manuscript


Thank you for visiting the Dorrance Publishing Company web site.

After reviewing the brief synopsis of the work that you provided, we would be interested in having you submit your manuscript when you have finished writing it. Do you have a projected completion date?
If so, please respond to me at your earliest convenience.

You indicated that your manuscript is incomplete, however, we have found that sometimes authors do not realize when a manuscript is suitable to be reviewed for possible publication. As a reminder, we consider a completed manuscript to be:

 Poetry - At least 12 poems (most poets send between 25-75)

 Fiction and non-fiction - 15,000 words or more

 Children's books - 12 pages (This includes future illustrations. The text will probably only be a couple of pages. You needn't have the illustrations complete, but please include a separate page describing the look of the illustrations, and whether or not you wish to have someone on
our staff draw them.)

When you find yourself with a completed manuscript, the quickest and easiest manner for you to submit your completed work for our review is in a digital format (that is, saved as one file in Microsoft Word, WordPerfect or another commonly used word processing program).

You may submit this digital file by simply clicking on reply to this e-mail and attaching your file. Submissions by mail are also welcome. These may be on CD or diskette or of typewritten or word-processed paper copies. Our postal address is: Dorrance Publishing Company, 701 Smithfield St., Pittsburgh, PA 15222.

A copy of our brochure, “The Authors Guide to Subsidy Publishing,” will also be sent to you if you have provided your full name and address. If you have questions or concerns, please E-mail me at [email protected], or call me at 1-800-873-6160.

Dale Hinote
Author Relations Representative


At first, I thought, 'What??? When did I do that??' Then I realised I submitted the form on the website here to obtain the information they were advertising.

So, I said that my manuscript was not complete and I gave a very, very short idea of what my novel was about. Couldn't have been more than 2 lines, at that!

Anyway, should I consider submitting the completed manuscript to this publisher, bearing in mind that it will be an erotic novel, and that has been made clear to the publishing company?

He asks for an approx time line for completion. *cough* I haven't even started yet! Yikes! But should I give a time line maybe months in advance and strive to get the novel completed by then?

Do you think that he will be patient enough to wait for me to finish it?

Or do you seriously think that this doc/letter is a standard response to the inquiry and he's not really that interested?

Or, is this something to be wary of?

Oh, I'm so ignorant of this stuff it's frightening!!


Inkserotica x

Dorrance is a full-blown vanity publisher; usually, they are very upfront about it. It will probably cost you at least $10000 to publish through them, and I'm sure they will be happy to wait for you to finish.

Rob

Look at these and see if you have any questions afterward, or just an overwhelming desire to run screaming into the night.

Dorrance Publishing (aka Whitmore Publishing, Rosedog.com)
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8500
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8234
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8780
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8758
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2828

Here are some red flags:

You indicated that your manuscript is incomplete, however, we have found that sometimes authors do not realize when a manuscript is suitable to be reviewed for possible publication.

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Few real fiction publishers will consider an incomplete manuscript and for non-fiction, they'll want a completed submission packet.

As a reminder, we consider a completed manuscript to be:...
 Fiction and non-fiction - 15,000 words or more

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Apparently any old 15,000 words will do. Most publishers are looking for things like a fully developed plot and interesting characters, to say nothing about good grammar and sentence construction.

... Children's books - 12 pages (This includes future illustrations. The text will probably only be a couple of pages. You needn't have the illustrations complete, but please include a separate page describing the look of the illustrations, and whether or not you wish to have someone on
our staff draw them.)

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Few publishers of children's books will consider illustrations by the author unless the author is also a professional artist.

When you find yourself with a completed manuscript,...

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This one gave me a chuckle. One day you turn around and say, "Hey, I've found a completed manuscript."

A copy of our brochure, “The Authors Guide to Subsidy Publishing,” will also be sent to you

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This, of course, clearly states that they are a vanity press. Victoria claims there is no such thing as "subsidy" press. There's only vanity press. This means that you pay them to publish your book instead of them paying you.

I would highly recommend you stay away from them and all vanity presses. The main reason being that you can't get your books on the shelves of Barnes and Noble and places like that.

Others to stay away from:

Publish America
Xlibris (sp chk)

I hope that helps.

Thankyou! All your replies have been very helpful and I will steer clear. I'm certainly not interested in Vanity publishing at all. So far my books have been published by myself so I don't want to go down the wrong road with my novel.

All your replies are very much appreciated!

inkserotica xx