Famous living people as characters?

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KTC

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This has probably been covered, but for a spaz's quick reference...

Is it okay to have famous living people as characters in your novel? One of the main characters in the last chapter of my novel is Gordon Lightfoot. The novel won't work without this chapter, obviously. Am I allowed to do this? To set it up just a bit...

My main character is a semi-famous poet and folksinger. He comes home from France on the day of an ACTUAL benefit concert in Toronto. (I say actual, because it really did take place and Gordon Lightfoot did organize it) I put my character backstage talking to Lightfoot and then on stage opening the show with Lightfoot...the two do a duet together.

Is this possible? No lyrics are mentioned in the novel, but am I still allowed to use a real life character or would this be frowned upon? This is a biggie, since it ends the novel...

Thanks in advance.
 

LeeFlower

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I would change the name and identifying physical characteristics. People who know the concert you're referring to will get the reference anyway, and it will save you a possible headache. Even if it's technically legal (which I can't speak to-- not a lawyer), it's still kinda sketchy from a courtesy and privacy perspective.

So call him Greg Darkhand and change his haircolor-- that makes it a fun homage instead of a possible legal issue. :).
 

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Kinsella did this in "Shoeless Joe" which became the movie Field of Dreams. J.D. Salinger is a character in the book, and he's still alive (so far as anyone knows). Moonlight Graham is another real-life person that's a character in the book, but he's dead.
 

willietheshakes

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Kinsella did this in "Shoeless Joe" which became the movie Field of Dreams. J.D. Salinger is a character in the book, and he's still alive (so far as anyone knows). Moonlight Graham is another real-life person that's a character in the book, but he's dead.

Which would be a fine example, except I believe that the Salinger team threatened legal action if his name was used in the movie. Hence James Earl Jones as a character almost but not quite entirely unlike Salinger in Field of Dreams.
 

KTC

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Thanks guys...so you think I would have to change his name? I just don't think it rings true. Damn. I was afraid of that. Should I change it prior to the submit, or should I leave it the way it is with the knowledge that it will probably be later changed? What I was trying to do was authenticate the 'fake' folksinger by putting him in the real folksinger's company.
 

PeeDee

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I think you could namedrop just fine.

"You're doing the show tomorrow night with Lightfoot, hope you've got your hippie shades ready," says the agent. "hey, maybe we can do Dylan next, then we'll just fuckin' warp back to the sixties and be done with it, huh?"


But actually writing him as a character is a bit trickier. (legally, I mean)
 

maestrowork

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I agree with Pee Dee... using the name is fine, but actually writing him as a character could give you trouble, unless you have permission and you portray him as he really is...
 

PeeDee

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I agree with Pee Dee... using the name is fine, but actually writing him as a character could give you trouble, unless you have permission and you portray him as he really is...

And who knows if he'd be happy with that? Heck, that might offend him more. Who knows? It just gets too tricky. Name drop all you like, but I'd be really jittery of going beyond that for much of any reason.
 

maestrowork

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And who knows if he'd be happy with that? Heck, that might offend him more. Who knows? It just gets too tricky. Name drop all you like, but I'd be really jittery of going beyond that for much of any reason.

True, but if you portray him as he really is, you may have a case against libel :) because you'll be telling the truth, whether he likes it or not. Of course, then you'll have to back it up with facts... So you're right, it's very tricky.
 

PeeDee

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True, but if you portray him as he really is, you may have a case against libel :) because you'll be telling the truth, whether he likes it or not. Of course, then you'll have to back it up with facts... So you're right, it's very tricky.

(not really arguing, just continuing to belabor the point)

Yeah, but supposing you wrote Iggy Pop and protrayed him as he really is. Which means insane, rude, funny, loud, and even more insane. The man stabbed himself on stage with a drunkstick, for god's sake. So you potray him as unhinged, which is more or less accurate.

What if Iggy's camp doesn't like it? True though you may be, "truth" is going to be of less importance to anyone than perception. Iggy's just a showman, they will say, and it's all an act, and suddenly you go from "telling it like it is" to "slander."

And either way, it's a lot of trouble for something that's just not worth it.
 

Prawn

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But you can use a famous person in a satire, that's okay, right? Like Oprah on Southpark.
 

PeeDee

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But you can use a famous person in a satire, that's okay, right? Like Oprah on Southpark.

I don't know. I'm not a Legalitician. Who knows, they may have gotten permission.
 

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Living people present more of a problem than dead people. The dead don't have the same rights -- you can't libel them, for instance. There are a LOT of successful books out there that use real people as characters -- Caleb Carr's "The Alienist" uses Teddy Roosevelt as an important supporting character; not just his name, Teddy's IN the book. That's only one example -- Riverworld using Mark Twain is another. This is done a lot.

The closer you get to alive, however, the more issues you can have. I wouldn't toss Paris Hilton into a book. However, you could have London Fairfield and as long as you could show it wasn't an EXACT copy of PH, then you can get away with it -- if you couldn't, Jackie Collins wouldn't have a career.

If you're writing about a living person and it's favorable, there's always the old "contact their management company and ask permission" idea. Unlikely to get a "yes", but then again, if the famous person either doesn't care or needs the boost to get famous again, it could be agreed to.
 

KTC

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Oh man. This was the chapter I was probably happiest with. It only just occured to me that I should check about the real person issue. Why hadn't I thought of that before? I have them chatting backstage as though they were friends, playing a duet together backstage and then, as my character suggests he's too tired and may just beg off performing, Lightfoot invites him to come out and start the show with him. And they do the duet and then my character gets off the stage and leaves.

He is solidly a talking head character. This is so depressing. Back to the drawing board to rewrite the entire chapter.

Thanks for the input guys. I wish it was the answer I was looking for, but I truly appreciate that it's not...I was looking for the right answer not the easy one.

Thanks!
 

JeanneTGC

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I don't know. I'm not a Legalitician. Who knows, they may have gotten permission.
I promise you South Park didn't have permission from anyone for their "In the Closet" episode. Satire does cover you, and also, being a public figure reduces your rights.

Bottom line -- it goes on all the time, if it's right for the book and the person is dead, go for it. If it's right for the book and the person is alive, maybe change their name, ala Jackie Collins, and use a facsimilie so that you avoid any worry.
 

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Kevin, I don't think I would worry about it. Submit it as is. If the agent/editor finds there is a problem, let them approach the topic of permission/changes.
Write the story the way you are happy with it.
 

KTC

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Wondering how he can bend the world to his will? Picks up the phone and calls Gordo.
 

maestrowork

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But you can use a famous person in a satire, that's okay, right? Like Oprah on Southpark.

I think satire is considered okay.

I remember when they put Bill Clinton in the movie Contact, the Clinton camp was not happy about it. Public figures, however, seems to be "fair game" and I don't think the Clinton camp sued. But celebrities and famous people are something else.

In Forrest Gump, they only used dead people.
 

KTC

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Satire is fine but meaningless conversations and duets are not?! The world is unfair!

Trish...I didn't see your post. We must have posted at the same time? I think the consensus is that I have to re-write. I loved the scenes, but if they don't work, they don't work. I haven't deleted anything in a long time. It will do me good.
 

Prawn

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What is wrong with saying Lightfoot played at a certain festival and that your character played with him? Is that really saying something about Lightfoot? I don't think so. As long as Lightfoot is tin the background, you should be okay. I saw write it. If it sells, the publishers can call Lightfoot and show him the passage.
 

c.e.lawson

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Does it have to be Gordon Lightfoot? What about another real singer who is no longer alive? Someone like Jim Croce? (I don't know that era very well, so that might be a bad rec.) But would that be easier and safer? Then you'd just have to replace names and a few small details, rather than rewrite everything.

c.e.
 

Judg

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It sounds to me like you are presenting Lightfoot in a very positive light. Seriously, why don't you contact him and ask permission? If you are published, you might even be able to talk him into some kind of promotion or something. Invite him to the party, whatever. I bet he would be tickled to allow you and you could even get mentioned at a concert or two (he was still touring, last I looked). Go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 

maestrowork

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Judg has a point -- like I said, if you have (written) permission, it's good to go. It won't hurt to contact Lightfoot and show him the ms.
 

KTC

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Man...you guys are really pumping me up here. What if I just send a message to his management? I could tell them the manuscript won the Muskoka Novel Marathon and that it's being forwarded to a publisher for consideration. (I can add that the marathon is a charity event to raise money for literacy.) And I'll just say I'd love to keep it as it is...but thought I'd better ask if he would grant me permission to use him as a character? Is this even remotely possible?
 

maestrowork

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You have nothing to lose to ask. If he says "no," you would just have to rewrite, which you're about to do anyway.

The only problem I can see is that if he wants to be in the book, but would like for you to portray him in a different way -- that he would dictate how you write him -- then that can be a problem for you. Do you keep your vision and integrity for the sake of the story, or do you appease him so that you can keep him in the book?.... etc. etc. etc.
 
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