I've heard it said that most people are subconsciously drawn to books that are written by males. This is why many women now chose masculine pen names. (Example: William Sarabande). Do you think there's any truth to this theory?
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i think...
I think that male pen names were more popular a few decades ago in genre fiction when the market was dominated by male writers. I was reading in a DAW anthology about one of their female writers taking a more genderless name (with initials) in order to mask the gender. But of course, can we avoid some of the great female authors over the years in SF/F? I don't think it matters anymore.
if you go to your local borders or b/n, you'll see that there is a nice distribution of the genders in all areas. I don't think people really care anymore (other than romance perhaps). Although, your statement might have been true two decades ago, i think the playing field is a bit more level now.
a caveat: this excludes editors, magazines, and presses that cater to a specific gender, ie. ones that only want to produce 'women's fiction' and the such.
of course, there are no presses that exclusively publish male fiction because that would be unfair. but that's my commentary.
I think that male pen names were more popular a few decades ago in genre fiction when the market was dominated by male writers. I was reading in a DAW anthology about one of their female writers taking a more genderless name (with initials) in order to mask the gender. But of course, can we avoid some of the great female authors over the years in SF/F? I don't think it matters anymore.
if you go to your local borders or b/n, you'll see that there is a nice distribution of the genders in all areas. I don't think people really care anymore (other than romance perhaps). Although, your statement might have been true two decades ago, i think the playing field is a bit more level now.
a caveat: this excludes editors, magazines, and presses that cater to a specific gender, ie. ones that only want to produce 'women's fiction' and the such.
of course, there are no presses that exclusively publish male fiction because that would be unfair. but that's my commentary.
depends on genre
Men who write romance almost always (I cannot think of a single exception) use a pseudonym. Might be the opposite in SF/F.
Nora Roberts is the best-selling writer in paperback in the US. Other women, like Barbara Taylor Bradford, Jenny Crusie, Daneille Steel, etc., are also exceptionally successful.
And of course, J.K. Rowling!
Men who write romance almost always (I cannot think of a single exception) use a pseudonym. Might be the opposite in SF/F.
Nora Roberts is the best-selling writer in paperback in the US. Other women, like Barbara Taylor Bradford, Jenny Crusie, Daneille Steel, etc., are also exceptionally successful.
And of course, J.K. Rowling!
Re: depends on genre
The literary canon is predominantly male. That matters a great deal. Think for a moment about the she-he problem. Anyone a member of AFJS-- read the story about she-he in the latest newsletter?
The literary canon is predominantly male. That matters a great deal. Think for a moment about the she-he problem. Anyone a member of AFJS-- read the story about she-he in the latest newsletter?
i agree.but...
i agree that the canon is dominated by males (however, this is changing as people begin to recognize the oft-hidden importance of women writers in the past). But there have been a number of female authors of note in the canon. Think Sappho, [a few medieval authors], Jane Austen, George Eliot, virginia wolfe, toni morrison, etc. etc. most of the female authors are just as famous as their male counterparts. But i'm wondering if the question deals more with the current market today, in which case i think being male or female in mainstream fiction is fairly unimportant.
two decades ago, i would have said that being a male matters, but at this point, even the canon is being rewritten (for good reason too)
i agree that the canon is dominated by males (however, this is changing as people begin to recognize the oft-hidden importance of women writers in the past). But there have been a number of female authors of note in the canon. Think Sappho, [a few medieval authors], Jane Austen, George Eliot, virginia wolfe, toni morrison, etc. etc. most of the female authors are just as famous as their male counterparts. But i'm wondering if the question deals more with the current market today, in which case i think being male or female in mainstream fiction is fairly unimportant.
two decades ago, i would have said that being a male matters, but at this point, even the canon is being rewritten (for good reason too)
not so fast
There's validity to what you say, to an extent. The degree of "change" in reality does not match your casual optimism, and your quick disclaimer does not address the reality of the present consciousness after hundreds of years worth of shaping.
There's validity to what you say, to an extent. The degree of "change" in reality does not match your casual optimism, and your quick disclaimer does not address the reality of the present consciousness after hundreds of years worth of shaping.
male/female
I suggest anyone who thinks male writer do better should take a look at the best-seller lists, or count the number of novels published by women versus the number of novels published by men. Women hold the upper hand in both cases, and have for a long time.
The literary canon of classics may be primarily male, but there are many women writers in it, as well.
There are times when women may sell better by writing under a male name, and times when a man certainly does better using a female name, but on the whole, women not only write and sell more novels than men, they also make the best-seller list more often.
I suggest anyone who thinks male writer do better should take a look at the best-seller lists, or count the number of novels published by women versus the number of novels published by men. Women hold the upper hand in both cases, and have for a long time.
The literary canon of classics may be primarily male, but there are many women writers in it, as well.
There are times when women may sell better by writing under a male name, and times when a man certainly does better using a female name, but on the whole, women not only write and sell more novels than men, they also make the best-seller list more often.
hmm....
does that mean i can start writing novels about maleness and being oppressed of the ruling female class?
does that mean i can start writing novels about maleness and being oppressed of the ruling female class?
Are male writers more successful than female writers?
This is an interesting question. I recently interviewed Barbara Kyle, the author of two historical novels and three thrillers. The thrillers were published under the pen name of Stephen Kyle and were very successful, the first thriller having reached the 100,000 mark in sales. The books published under her own name, in her own words, "never found their audience." Makes you wonder. If you'd like to read the interview, it's at www.suite101.com/article.cfm/17807/104982
This is an interesting question. I recently interviewed Barbara Kyle, the author of two historical novels and three thrillers. The thrillers were published under the pen name of Stephen Kyle and were very successful, the first thriller having reached the 100,000 mark in sales. The books published under her own name, in her own words, "never found their audience." Makes you wonder. If you'd like to read the interview, it's at www.suite101.com/article.cfm/17807/104982
Re: Are male writers more successful than female writers?
i have only two things to say, george eliot.
of course, everyone else has a good point, and certainly these days it should not matter. and if you have a persona like AJ's, all bets are off!
i have only two things to say, george eliot.
of course, everyone else has a good point, and certainly these days it should not matter. and if you have a persona like AJ's, all bets are off!
JK Rowling
she used initials because she thought it would help sell the book if the publishers and agents didn't know she was a she. After all the main character of her book sis male.
Who knows. Ask yourself do you listen to the male advice or female advice more--I mean if a female writer says one thing and a male says another which advice do you take more seriously?
Also, publishers may be concerned about a woman taking time out for children where as they don't think that about men as much.
We all have ideas about what gender a novelist is when we read a story if the name is genderless--I am often mistaken for being male.
Shawn
she used initials because she thought it would help sell the book if the publishers and agents didn't know she was a she. After all the main character of her book sis male.
Who knows. Ask yourself do you listen to the male advice or female advice more--I mean if a female writer says one thing and a male says another which advice do you take more seriously?
Also, publishers may be concerned about a woman taking time out for children where as they don't think that about men as much.
We all have ideas about what gender a novelist is when we read a story if the name is genderless--I am often mistaken for being male.
Shawn
Re: JK Rowling
heck, i thought you WERE male, shawn! you make good points. but people like AJ (and, for that matter, dan steele) trade on their femininity and seem to do well. it would be nice if we could just say, yeah, but in this day and age such trivial things don't matter.
but as tillie olsen very cogently pointed out, the literary canon until recently has been not only primarily, but overwhelmingly male. sappho et al were the rare exceptions that proved the rule, and sappho was mercilessly suppressed. we have only a little of her real output left. one very good thing about modern times is that this appears to be changing. but go back to school and see who you read in a mainstream course. :hat
heck, i thought you WERE male, shawn! you make good points. but people like AJ (and, for that matter, dan steele) trade on their femininity and seem to do well. it would be nice if we could just say, yeah, but in this day and age such trivial things don't matter.
but as tillie olsen very cogently pointed out, the literary canon until recently has been not only primarily, but overwhelmingly male. sappho et al were the rare exceptions that proved the rule, and sappho was mercilessly suppressed. we have only a little of her real output left. one very good thing about modern times is that this appears to be changing. but go back to school and see who you read in a mainstream course. :hat
LOL
People think I am male because I have a type triple A personality and I am a hard a**ed --well fill in the blank. I also write mostly from a male POV--I do it well as I am sure those men who write under a female name (romance) do it well.
I don't know about others but if I pick up a book, say romance, though I read little of it, and it is written by Mac Steamer--well I might hesitate and decide to read one written by a woman. Same with a first person story told from a male POV--it might seem funny to read an "I" story when the I is male, when you know it is written by a female.
Do men do better? Well, I guess a person would have to do an income survey--across the board how many books are published by women, and then compare how much each gender group makes per book.
Shawn
People think I am male because I have a type triple A personality and I am a hard a**ed --well fill in the blank. I also write mostly from a male POV--I do it well as I am sure those men who write under a female name (romance) do it well.
I don't know about others but if I pick up a book, say romance, though I read little of it, and it is written by Mac Steamer--well I might hesitate and decide to read one written by a woman. Same with a first person story told from a male POV--it might seem funny to read an "I" story when the I is male, when you know it is written by a female.
Do men do better? Well, I guess a person would have to do an income survey--across the board how many books are published by women, and then compare how much each gender group makes per book.
Shawn
Re: LOL
I thought you were male because you sign your posts "Shawn."
If you glance at the most recent NY Times bestseller list, you'll see it's about 2/3 men. (I didn't do an analysis, because life is too short).
But you know something? The Times won't include religious books on its lists. They also exclude romance novels. Why? Because those books would dominate the list every week if they didn't.
So, sure, in the past men dominated (as they have in nearly everything). And authors use pen names because they are afraid of discrimination. But whether men or women do better depends on the kinds of book they're writing.
I thought you were male because you sign your posts "Shawn."
If you glance at the most recent NY Times bestseller list, you'll see it's about 2/3 men. (I didn't do an analysis, because life is too short).
But you know something? The Times won't include religious books on its lists. They also exclude romance novels. Why? Because those books would dominate the list every week if they didn't.
So, sure, in the past men dominated (as they have in nearly everything). And authors use pen names because they are afraid of discrimination. But whether men or women do better depends on the kinds of book they're writing.
i did an informal survey of major publisher's web pages:
random house: all the books featured in the "fiction section" were by females authors. the books featured in the "nonfiction section" were split between male and female authors: one co-authored text by a male and female, one male single author, and one female single author...
I even refreshed the page to see if the titles were randomly generated, they were not.
Penguin: under featured fiction, there were two female authors and four male authors noted. but under the news section, there seems to be a smattering of both genders mentioned.
those are the only two i went through so far. also, a quick peek at the nytimes bestsellers list may also reveal how well gender are selling, but it also depends on how many books are out by big names like king, steele, rice, cussler, grisham, etc. they tend to top the list and stay there for awhile.
random house: all the books featured in the "fiction section" were by females authors. the books featured in the "nonfiction section" were split between male and female authors: one co-authored text by a male and female, one male single author, and one female single author...
I even refreshed the page to see if the titles were randomly generated, they were not.
Penguin: under featured fiction, there were two female authors and four male authors noted. but under the news section, there seems to be a smattering of both genders mentioned.
those are the only two i went through so far. also, a quick peek at the nytimes bestsellers list may also reveal how well gender are selling, but it also depends on how many books are out by big names like king, steele, rice, cussler, grisham, etc. they tend to top the list and stay there for awhile.
I'm not sure really. As a writer I want to say no, of course not. But then as a reader I know how I am. I tend to read more male authors of science fiction and fantasy books. Horro is pretty evenly mixed. Romance from women. So I'm not really sure which sex is more successful generally but I think divided into genre that men tend to find success more in some than in others.
AJ
AJ
on the other hand, in a different genre, what is the ratio of male to females in the field of romance...i'm sure it's not equal.
Hehehe... talk about stirring up a hornet's nest...
Seriously, though - I don't think that this is quite true. The feminist side of me wants to say, absolutely, it's a malecentric universe we live in and so of course anything created by men is going to be more valued - but the realist side of me says probably not. An example that I can think of is the many romance novels and chick lit written by women for women which are highly successful. I don't think that any genre really exists today that you can say is more successful than another because it has predominantly one gender or the other writing in it.
Historically, it's hard for me to say if this is also true - depends on your definition of "successful". I think (and others who know more about literary history can correct me if I'm wrong) that there was a whole branch of "lady novelists" coming out in the 19th and early 20th century that were very successful but were not taken as seriously as their male contemporaries. So if successful to you means commercial appeal (i.e., what the masses buy, which is the impression I got from your original post), then, no, male writers are not more successful than women writers, IMHO.
Tam
Seriously, though - I don't think that this is quite true. The feminist side of me wants to say, absolutely, it's a malecentric universe we live in and so of course anything created by men is going to be more valued - but the realist side of me says probably not. An example that I can think of is the many romance novels and chick lit written by women for women which are highly successful. I don't think that any genre really exists today that you can say is more successful than another because it has predominantly one gender or the other writing in it.
Historically, it's hard for me to say if this is also true - depends on your definition of "successful". I think (and others who know more about literary history can correct me if I'm wrong) that there was a whole branch of "lady novelists" coming out in the 19th and early 20th century that were very successful but were not taken as seriously as their male contemporaries. So if successful to you means commercial appeal (i.e., what the masses buy, which is the impression I got from your original post), then, no, male writers are not more successful than women writers, IMHO.
Tam
i agree tam: historically, it was a male-centric worldview. but i think things have changed significantly. women have breached most 'men's clubs.' just look at the niche markets: how many 'malelit' markets are there? um...none. there are few works, especially an entire genre, that is male exclusive, because women have an interest in things that were once considered 'male.' on the other hand, there are few men that read romance, and probably even fewer who read 'chick lit.' things have changed, and the pendulum now swings the other way...
Gonna weigh in from sort of an odd angle here. I've bemoaned to the staff of SmokeLong several times that while we get a significant number of submissions from male writers, we publish far, far, far more female writers than we do male. Dunno why that is exactly, except that the overall talent level for women submitting just seems to be higher (that, or their styles are more akin to what we like).
That said, it seems an awful lot easier to rattle off a couple dozen well-known male authors than to do the same with women. Not quite sure why that is, except for slowly overcoming the male gaze.
That said, it seems an awful lot easier to rattle off a couple dozen well-known male authors than to do the same with women. Not quite sure why that is, except for slowly overcoming the male gaze.
Female fantasy/sci-fi writers do seem to be the minority...
Barbara Hambly, Janny Wurts, Anne Mcaffrey, Mercedies Lackey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Mickey Zucker Reichert, Leigh Eddings (though she writes with her hubby), of course J.K. Rowling...
That was about all I could think of off the top of my head whose works I had read (I am a fantasy nut, can you tell?).
I think I have read alot more male writers of Fantasy.
Barbara Hambly, Janny Wurts, Anne Mcaffrey, Mercedies Lackey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Mickey Zucker Reichert, Leigh Eddings (though she writes with her hubby), of course J.K. Rowling...
That was about all I could think of off the top of my head whose works I had read (I am a fantasy nut, can you tell?).
I think I have read alot more male writers of Fantasy.
Female writers
>> Female fantasy/sci-fi writers do seem to be the minority<<
Not any more. Many of the top fantasy sellers right now are female. Tor has had special success breaking out female authors. Go to the bookstore and count the new releases...I think you'll be surprised.
- Victoria
www.victoriastrauss.com
www.writerbeware.com
>> Female fantasy/sci-fi writers do seem to be the minority<<
Not any more. Many of the top fantasy sellers right now are female. Tor has had special success breaking out female authors. Go to the bookstore and count the new releases...I think you'll be surprised.
- Victoria
www.victoriastrauss.com
www.writerbeware.com
Re: Female writers
I am writing a thriller militaristic-type novel in a style similar to Tom Clancy. I'm female, but should I use a male pen name for better sales?
I am writing a thriller militaristic-type novel in a style similar to Tom Clancy. I'm female, but should I use a male pen name for better sales?
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