- Status
details
This principle applies to all the details a writer puts in a novel, they must not contradict known facts, otherwise you risk alienating your reader.
I'm a 48 year old Canadian and have been back and forth across Canada repeatedly over the last three decades and have never, ever heard a Canadian pronounce 'about' like that. This is a perfect example of getting the details right. That 'aboot' thing is a myth, pure and simple, and any Canadian reading something that uses it will know the writer has not done his or her research.
This principle applies to all the details a writer puts in a novel, they must not contradict known facts, otherwise you risk alienating your reader.
Re: details
Chunky:
Of course no one says aboot (unless talking about footwear), but to my Oregonian ears, the pronunciation of 'about' in British Columbia, anyway, is closer to the 'oo' sound than the 'ow' sound I hear. That said, it is still off-putting to create dialogue with an attempt to reproduce the phonetics of regional dialect. Better, I think, is to identify the character as Canadian, Oregonian, Laotian emmigrant, etc, and let the reader's ear transpose the words on the page into what she imagines the character should sound like.
Chunky:
Of course no one says aboot (unless talking about footwear), but to my Oregonian ears, the pronunciation of 'about' in British Columbia, anyway, is closer to the 'oo' sound than the 'ow' sound I hear. That said, it is still off-putting to create dialogue with an attempt to reproduce the phonetics of regional dialect. Better, I think, is to identify the character as Canadian, Oregonian, Laotian emmigrant, etc, and let the reader's ear transpose the words on the page into what she imagines the character should sound like.
Re: Metric/English
Sorry, that last little bit - "aboot" - was in line with Pixel's note that if you say you're from Canada, everyone will automatically start saying "eh?" after everything. People also tend to lapse into "aboot" as well. Good to know it's not really pronounced that way, eh?
Uh... sorry.
Sorry, that last little bit - "aboot" - was in line with Pixel's note that if you say you're from Canada, everyone will automatically start saying "eh?" after everything. People also tend to lapse into "aboot" as well. Good to know it's not really pronounced that way, eh?
Uh... sorry.
Metrics/English
Everyone,
Thank you for your input.
I'm writing SF&F (my novel takes place on another world), so I don't have to worry about being true to Europe/US/Canada, etc as the discussion has gone so far. In either case you have all given me interesting insight into the topic.
I'll have to look to my characters and world and decide what "fits" best. For me personally, I have no trouble relating to kilometers or miles for long distances, but prefer inches/feet for shorter ones. This is what was coming through in my writing and I was worrying about inconsistency as a result. Perhaps I'm adding a bit of realism given the input from our Canadian friends?
Again, thank you for your help!
Everyone,
Thank you for your input.
I'm writing SF&F (my novel takes place on another world), so I don't have to worry about being true to Europe/US/Canada, etc as the discussion has gone so far. In either case you have all given me interesting insight into the topic.
I'll have to look to my characters and world and decide what "fits" best. For me personally, I have no trouble relating to kilometers or miles for long distances, but prefer inches/feet for shorter ones. This is what was coming through in my writing and I was worrying about inconsistency as a result. Perhaps I'm adding a bit of realism given the input from our Canadian friends?
Again, thank you for your help!
Re: details
Pthom, exactly. Dialect is one example of how attempting to catch the flavour of a region can fail if you're not careful. You also make a good point about how persons can 'hear' differently, based in part on their own manner of speaking. I don't hear any 'oo' when I'm in B.C., but then, I'm not predisposed to listen for it. I'm going to have to mull that over.
Macalicious, I was not really insulted, I apologize if I came off sounding that way. I saw it as a perfect example of how people sometimes take 'urban legends' as truth, or of how something subtle can get blown out of proportion and take on the aura of truth. In a sense it's understandable that it happens. In this case, 'aboot' is a caricature of the subtle difference in pronunciation Pthom pointed out. I'm sure I have a preconception of a Tennessee accent in my head that would be shattered were I to ever visit Nashville.
I guess what it comes down to is that settling for what we think is true can have a detrimental effect on our writing, as I discovered for myself just now. I never hear the 'oo' so I assumed no one else did.
Enlightening place, this.
Pthom, exactly. Dialect is one example of how attempting to catch the flavour of a region can fail if you're not careful. You also make a good point about how persons can 'hear' differently, based in part on their own manner of speaking. I don't hear any 'oo' when I'm in B.C., but then, I'm not predisposed to listen for it. I'm going to have to mull that over.
Macalicious, I was not really insulted, I apologize if I came off sounding that way. I saw it as a perfect example of how people sometimes take 'urban legends' as truth, or of how something subtle can get blown out of proportion and take on the aura of truth. In a sense it's understandable that it happens. In this case, 'aboot' is a caricature of the subtle difference in pronunciation Pthom pointed out. I'm sure I have a preconception of a Tennessee accent in my head that would be shattered were I to ever visit Nashville.
I guess what it comes down to is that settling for what we think is true can have a detrimental effect on our writing, as I discovered for myself just now. I never hear the 'oo' so I assumed no one else did.
Enlightening place, this.
accents
"aboot" is just as much a Northern US thing, as a Canadian thing. I hear it all the time, especially from people in the UP of Michigan.
Accents are funny in that you wouldn't even know you said a word differently than anybody else, until someone else told you you did.
I didn't know that people from Toledo, Ohio, had a weird kind of their own accent until my husband (from England) told me that we did. We say our o's kind of close mouthed. Like "Toledoew" or "helloew" or "let's goew". You'd probably be able to tell the difference if you came here, but I never noticed that until he told me, and I've lived in OH/MI all my life.
But, as all of this applies to writing: I don't know that I would ever try to write an accent into dialogue. That's something I'd just like to let the reader imagine on her own. Tell us where the speaker is from, and then let the personality of the dialogue speak for itself, I guess.
"aboot" is just as much a Northern US thing, as a Canadian thing. I hear it all the time, especially from people in the UP of Michigan.
Accents are funny in that you wouldn't even know you said a word differently than anybody else, until someone else told you you did.
I didn't know that people from Toledo, Ohio, had a weird kind of their own accent until my husband (from England) told me that we did. We say our o's kind of close mouthed. Like "Toledoew" or "helloew" or "let's goew". You'd probably be able to tell the difference if you came here, but I never noticed that until he told me, and I've lived in OH/MI all my life.
But, as all of this applies to writing: I don't know that I would ever try to write an accent into dialogue. That's something I'd just like to let the reader imagine on her own. Tell us where the speaker is from, and then let the personality of the dialogue speak for itself, I guess.
Re: Metrics/English
I think you have it there, Pixie. Word choices, cadence, all can evoke a sense of place.
Re: details
Oh no! No need to apologize... I didn't think you were really upset. The "sorry" came from the additional "eh" added to the end of my sentence... another Americanized Canadian thing ... yeah... okay, I'm going to stop talking. (;
Oh no! No need to apologize... I didn't think you were really upset. The "sorry" came from the additional "eh" added to the end of my sentence... another Americanized Canadian thing ... yeah... okay, I'm going to stop talking. (;
wow, great thread
Hi everyone, I am new to this board but have been lurking (and reading) for over a week. I have just completed my review of this entire thread and am ready to join in the discussion.
Firstly, I want to thank James for the incredible amount of work he has put into this thread. It is a fabulous tutorial and discussion and I had a happy three days reading it from page 1 all the way through.
I have a few questions, but a little background first. I started my career as a professional journalist (although I am getting out of that now) and one of my earliest writing experiences was as an intern at a very big Canadian magazine. I am so grateful I had that opportunity. The editor-in-chief, who is a brilliant woman, has a very business-like approach to editing that was a good fit for me personality-wise and taught me a very practical lesson early on. Basically, she had no tolerance at all for “I am an artiste” types of writers. Her magazine was a business. It had a target audience so well-defined that before my pitch session (interns got a pitch session at the start of their term and worked on the approved stories for the remainder of their time there) she told me to pretend I was a 37-year-old housewife in rural Alberta with an 8-year-child, and that it’s September. What would be on my mind? What a great lesson to a writer just starting out: have fun, write well, show flair---but do it in a way that will get you printed. That’s not selling out at all. It’s just selling.
I had been writing fiction literally since I was a little kid, and later that same year I had the chance to take a writing class with a real author. She had written two of those immigrant family saga novels so popular in Canada, was married to a big name in Canlit, and was just SO not my type at all She was a genre snob, for one thing, and she hated my work because it was too whimsical. I became stubborn and our classes turned into a sort of battle of the wills---as one example, she accused my first story of having not enough dialogue, so for the second one I wrote ONLY dialogue Of course, I rationally know that there is a proper balance between the two. But I wanted to see what she would say about my dialogue. As it turns out, she developed a grudging respect for the way I kept putting myself out there for criticism from her, and she later told me she did find me talented but wanted me to “aim higher than romances and mysteries.” Lesson learned: just because they are published authors does not mean they are g-d, and it certainly does not mean they are always right. For the record I quite enjoy romances and mysteries, especially when they occur in the same book, which I understand is quite a popular trend right now (Kay Hooper, Nora Roberts, Harlequin Intrigue, Karen Harper etc).
Lesson three was Nanowrimo, which I did last year, in which I learned the important idea that 200 pages of people having conversations does not equal a plot. My writing group editor came back to me after reading the draft with many glowing comments about my snappy dialogue. Then she shifted uncomfortably in her chair, looked down and said “now, about the rest of it…” The plot went something like this: a bunch of people who have not seen each other in several years reunite, and spend most of the book yelling at each other. And…well, that’s really the whole plot. I like writing dialogue and know it is my strong point, so I seemed to favor it a little too much. Lesson learned: you cannot write 50,000 words and fail to learn something. Identify your weak points, and work on them. Oh, and if anyone wants to know more about my Nanowrimo experience, my first paid piece of the year was a write-up about it in the e-zine published by Holly Lisle’s web site. And interesting aside, I got a personal note from the editor after I submitted it in which she praised me to the high heavens for following the submission guidelines (i.e. sending it double spaced and in the right font). It seems a lot of people don’t follow guidelines. You can earn serious brownie points just by doing what you’re told!
I know this post is veering on the long side, so I’ll slip in my first question and then sign off for now. I am wondering what you think of writing exercises. People always give me books with them (and in fact one contains nearly every ‘lesson’ we did in the writing class I took with the well-known author. Stunning coincidence?) So---waste of time, or useful skill-builder?
Joanna
p.s. if anyone is inetersted in some great writing links and article links, I compiled some for my writing group here:
www.geocities.com/ficbot/toronto.htm
Hi everyone, I am new to this board but have been lurking (and reading) for over a week. I have just completed my review of this entire thread and am ready to join in the discussion.
Firstly, I want to thank James for the incredible amount of work he has put into this thread. It is a fabulous tutorial and discussion and I had a happy three days reading it from page 1 all the way through.
I have a few questions, but a little background first. I started my career as a professional journalist (although I am getting out of that now) and one of my earliest writing experiences was as an intern at a very big Canadian magazine. I am so grateful I had that opportunity. The editor-in-chief, who is a brilliant woman, has a very business-like approach to editing that was a good fit for me personality-wise and taught me a very practical lesson early on. Basically, she had no tolerance at all for “I am an artiste” types of writers. Her magazine was a business. It had a target audience so well-defined that before my pitch session (interns got a pitch session at the start of their term and worked on the approved stories for the remainder of their time there) she told me to pretend I was a 37-year-old housewife in rural Alberta with an 8-year-child, and that it’s September. What would be on my mind? What a great lesson to a writer just starting out: have fun, write well, show flair---but do it in a way that will get you printed. That’s not selling out at all. It’s just selling.
I had been writing fiction literally since I was a little kid, and later that same year I had the chance to take a writing class with a real author. She had written two of those immigrant family saga novels so popular in Canada, was married to a big name in Canlit, and was just SO not my type at all
She was a genre snob, for one thing, and she hated my work because it was too whimsical. I became stubborn and our classes turned into a sort of battle of the wills---as one example, she accused my first story of having not enough dialogue, so for the second one I wrote ONLY dialogue Of course, I rationally know that there is a proper balance between the two. But I wanted to see what she would say about my dialogue. As it turns out, she developed a grudging respect for the way I kept putting myself out there for criticism from her, and she later told me she did find me talented but wanted me to “aim higher than romances and mysteries.” Lesson learned: just because they are published authors does not mean they are g-d, and it certainly does not mean they are always right. For the record I quite enjoy romances and mysteries, especially when they occur in the same book, which I understand is quite a popular trend right now (Kay Hooper, Nora Roberts, Harlequin Intrigue, Karen Harper etc).Lesson three was Nanowrimo, which I did last year, in which I learned the important idea that 200 pages of people having conversations does not equal a plot. My writing group editor came back to me after reading the draft with many glowing comments about my snappy dialogue. Then she shifted uncomfortably in her chair, looked down and said “now, about the rest of it…” The plot went something like this: a bunch of people who have not seen each other in several years reunite, and spend most of the book yelling at each other. And…well, that’s really the whole plot. I like writing dialogue and know it is my strong point, so I seemed to favor it a little too much. Lesson learned: you cannot write 50,000 words and fail to learn something. Identify your weak points, and work on them. Oh, and if anyone wants to know more about my Nanowrimo experience, my first paid piece of the year was a write-up about it in the e-zine published by Holly Lisle’s web site. And interesting aside, I got a personal note from the editor after I submitted it in which she praised me to the high heavens for following the submission guidelines (i.e. sending it double spaced and in the right font). It seems a lot of people don’t follow guidelines. You can earn serious brownie points just by doing what you’re told!
I know this post is veering on the long side, so I’ll slip in my first question and then sign off for now. I am wondering what you think of writing exercises. People always give me books with them (and in fact one contains nearly every ‘lesson’ we did in the writing class I took with the well-known author. Stunning coincidence?) So---waste of time, or useful skill-builder?
Joanna
p.s. if anyone is inetersted in some great writing links and article links, I compiled some for my writing group here:
www.geocities.com/ficbot/toronto.htm
Re:Aboot
"Yes, not to mention the elongated pronunciation of 'about' as 'aboot.'"
Thanks for clearing this up Chunky. Americans have said this to me and puzzled me as well. I've never heard a Canadian say about like that either.
But there is a point here - if Americans pronounce Toronto wrong we Canadians won't point it out or correct you.
"Yes, not to mention the elongated pronunciation of 'about' as 'aboot.'"
Thanks for clearing this up Chunky. Americans have said this to me and puzzled me as well. I've never heard a Canadian say about like that either.
But there is a point here - if Americans pronounce Toronto wrong we Canadians won't point it out or correct you.
Re: Metrics/English
I have a lot of American friends. Invariably, after our first or second phone or in-person conversation they tease me about "oot n' aboot" eh.
The Canadian ear simply doesn't hear it that way. To ours, the American "ow" (as in "Ow! That hurt!") in their "a-bowt" sounds odd.
I take no umbrage at their exaggeration of our pronounciation. They take none from mine.
Our Newfies now. Lard t'underin' jaysus! There's an accent you can drown in.
Joanne: Welcome to the boards eh? A couple more hosers here and we'll RULE!
I have a lot of American friends. Invariably, after our first or second phone or in-person conversation they tease me about "oot n' aboot" eh.
The Canadian ear simply doesn't hear it that way. To ours, the American "ow" (as in "Ow! That hurt!") in their "a-bowt" sounds odd.
I take no umbrage at their exaggeration of our pronounciation. They take none from mine.
Our Newfies now. Lard t'underin' jaysus! There's an accent you can drown in.
Joanne: Welcome to the boards eh? A couple more hosers here and we'll RULE!
Re: wow, great thread -- too much dialogue
. . . kinda reminds me of that movie from some years back: "The Big Chill." Or, perhaps "My Dinner With Andre."
Aboot
Canadians don't say aboot.
But they do say something that is not 'about'.
It's the one surefire method for other English speakers to distinguish Canadians from Americans (northern borderers excepted).
It's closer, perhaps, to 'abaouwt'
Canadians don't say aboot.
But they do say something that is not 'about'.
It's the one surefire method for other English speakers to distinguish Canadians from Americans (northern borderers excepted).
It's closer, perhaps, to 'abaouwt'
Re: Re:Aboot
I don't think all Canadians say "aboot" just as I don't think all Texans say "y'all." But I have met enough Canadians to know that they do say something other than "about." I think it's cute.
I don't think all Canadians say "aboot" just as I don't think all Texans say "y'all." But I have met enough Canadians to know that they do say something other than "about." I think it's cute.
Re: Metrics/English
I wouldn't say I'm angry over Americans pointing out differences in pronunciation. I just wonder why they do it. Do they point out all the words that an Englishman says differently when they're talking to him? Do northern Americans point out differences in pronunciation to southern Americans? I don't think all Americans do it either. My point would be, aren't we all speaking English and aren't these all different accents (some might call them dialects). Do all Americans say "about" the same way? Chinese Americans? Pakistani Americans? French Americans?
Then why would these Americans that point out "aboot" think all Canadians said it that way? Do they mean there's something wrong with the Canadians saying it that way? Are they just noticing the difference in accent? Do they think everyone should say it the same? Or are they just noticing that some Canadians may have an accent different from theirs? What is their intent in pointing it out? That's what I would like to know. The answer to this may be different for each of them.
By the way, every American living in the United States that I've met has a bit of an accent to my ear anyway. Woopy! Big deal! I understand what they are saying so the only time I might point it out is if I tell them I like their accent. To say that Canadians all say "aboot" is like saying that all Americans say crawdad. This is why the comment is puzzling.
We have Chinese Canadians, Innuit Canadians, Italian Canadians, etc. and as Chunky pointed out we have regional dialects and pronunciations. They are not nearly as marked as some American dialects and English dialects are but they are there.
Toronto, by the way, is a native word, so we're probably all saying it wrong.
Watcher
I wouldn't say I'm angry over Americans pointing out differences in pronunciation. I just wonder why they do it. Do they point out all the words that an Englishman says differently when they're talking to him? Do northern Americans point out differences in pronunciation to southern Americans? I don't think all Americans do it either. My point would be, aren't we all speaking English and aren't these all different accents (some might call them dialects). Do all Americans say "about" the same way? Chinese Americans? Pakistani Americans? French Americans?
Then why would these Americans that point out "aboot" think all Canadians said it that way? Do they mean there's something wrong with the Canadians saying it that way? Are they just noticing the difference in accent? Do they think everyone should say it the same? Or are they just noticing that some Canadians may have an accent different from theirs? What is their intent in pointing it out? That's what I would like to know. The answer to this may be different for each of them.
By the way, every American living in the United States that I've met has a bit of an accent to my ear anyway. Woopy! Big deal! I understand what they are saying so the only time I might point it out is if I tell them I like their accent. To say that Canadians all say "aboot" is like saying that all Americans say crawdad. This is why the comment is puzzling.
We have Chinese Canadians, Innuit Canadians, Italian Canadians, etc. and as Chunky pointed out we have regional dialects and pronunciations. They are not nearly as marked as some American dialects and English dialects are but they are there.
Toronto, by the way, is a native word, so we're probably all saying it wrong.
Watcher
Re: Aboot
Its an interesting discussion. As an English person who has never visited any part of America I have little appreciation of how the accents and dialects vary across the continent. I can distinguish stereotypical New York and Texas accents, but beyond that I haven't much clue .
I think most people from outside of a region tend to stereotype its occupants, at least in terms of language use. English characters in US TV programs can be very amusing.
Its an interesting discussion. As an English person who has never visited any part of America I have little appreciation of how the accents and dialects vary across the continent. I can distinguish stereotypical New York and Texas accents, but beyond that I haven't much clue
.I think most people from outside of a region tend to stereotype its occupants, at least in terms of language use. English characters in US TV programs can be very amusing.
Re: Metrics/English
It's just the way the brains of many Americans work. Lots of people around the world are this way, but I believe that the people who chose to come to America prior to 1900 tended to be the sort who notice the difference between 'about' and 'aboot' enough to comment on it. Because they were picky enough to leave wherever they were to come to America.
JB
For the same reason that we keep inventing stuff, pushing the envelope of science and technology, and understanding the world. Americans are 'picky' and observant. We notice stuff. We're intrigued by little variations. Our brains say that it's 'important' to recognize the difference in 'aboot' versus 'about' just as we feel that it's important to recognize the difference between 0.001 and 0.002 in the level of salinity in tears.
It's just the way the brains of many Americans work. Lots of people around the world are this way, but I believe that the people who chose to come to America prior to 1900 tended to be the sort who notice the difference between 'about' and 'aboot' enough to comment on it. Because they were picky enough to leave wherever they were to come to America.
They sure do.
JB
Re: Re:Aboot
Of course we point out all the accents, even in America. There's no reason to get all upset and indignant about it. Everyone has an accent; there are all kinds of regional accents that we comment on or make fun of. Texan accents are fair game. In Western PA we make sure that people from Pittsburgh know they have an accent... then there's the general southern and northern accents (Bostonian accents are very fun to listen to).
I seriously don't understand why people get all upset about it. Most of the "teasing" are done tongue-in-cheek (so to speak) and completely friendly jabs. I'm sure other countries make fun of how Americans talk as well, just as we make fun of everybody else.
Of course we point out all the accents, even in America. There's no reason to get all upset and indignant about it. Everyone has an accent; there are all kinds of regional accents that we comment on or make fun of. Texan accents are fair game. In Western PA we make sure that people from Pittsburgh know they have an accent... then there's the general southern and northern accents (Bostonian accents are very fun to listen to).
I seriously don't understand why people get all upset about it. Most of the "teasing" are done tongue-in-cheek (so to speak) and completely friendly jabs. I'm sure other countries make fun of how Americans talk as well, just as we make fun of everybody else.
Re: Re:Aboot
Some of it may be that many areas of the US don't believe they have an accent, except for the obvioius that is pointed out - Texas, New York, Boston, etc. I grew up in PA Dutch country and believed I talked like everyone else. Then I moved to CA for four years and when I went back home, everyone told me I had an accent. Actually, I had lost the PA Dutch accent that I grew up with.
Some of it may be that many areas of the US don't believe they have an accent, except for the obvioius that is pointed out - Texas, New York, Boston, etc. I grew up in PA Dutch country and believed I talked like everyone else. Then I moved to CA for four years and when I went back home, everyone told me I had an accent. Actually, I had lost the PA Dutch accent that I grew up with.
RE: Aboot
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Do they point out all the words that an Englishman says differently when they're talking to him?<hr></blockquote>
A lot of times, yes! But nicely of course, as a point of interest and fascination, never as a put down! It's a great way to learn and often a great conversation piece.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Americans are 'picky' and observant. <hr></blockquote>
I don't think we're picky, but I do think we take a national pride in our melting pot and the many accents we have within the country. If anything, we have a fascination with accents from state to state, or region to region. Why shouldn't we be just as fascinated with our wonderful neighbors to the North? I don't think anyone here means to insult by saying All Canadians do this or All Americans do that, etc. And if someone does make a blanket statement, I would suggest taking the opportunity to enlighten that person instead of getting upset with or chastising him/her.
Maestrowork,
If you don't mind my asking, where exactly are you from in Western PA? Quite frankly, I've never known Western PA people to point out our "accent" although I've had New Yorker friends do it all the time, saying it's a Midwest accent (most of us don't even consider Pittsburgh mid-west).
And to expand on the geographical impact of accents, within Pittsburgh we have our own range of accents that we make fun of among ourselves. The Steelers (our football team) are called the Stillers. We don't go Downtown; we go Dahntahn. We don't use Towels after showering, we use Tiles. There was a book published some years ago about how to speak Pittsburghese, and most Pittsburghers I know always know how to have a good laugh at ourselves, almost, as said before, to the point of pride.
For those who appreciate grammar, a very common problem here are sentences constructed as follows:
The car needs washed.
The house needs painted.
You'll hear Pittsburghers saying this all the time, including some teachers, college professors, doctors, and so on without even realizing it's incorrect! Here, it is accepted and natural. My mom taught English in college and believe me, although I grew up here, I was NOT allowed to use this very common and incorrect structure!
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Do they point out all the words that an Englishman says differently when they're talking to him?<hr></blockquote>
A lot of times, yes! But nicely of course, as a point of interest and fascination, never as a put down! It's a great way to learn and often a great conversation piece.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Americans are 'picky' and observant. <hr></blockquote>
I don't think we're picky, but I do think we take a national pride in our melting pot and the many accents we have within the country. If anything, we have a fascination with accents from state to state, or region to region. Why shouldn't we be just as fascinated with our wonderful neighbors to the North? I don't think anyone here means to insult by saying All Canadians do this or All Americans do that, etc. And if someone does make a blanket statement, I would suggest taking the opportunity to enlighten that person instead of getting upset with or chastising him/her.
Maestrowork,
If you don't mind my asking, where exactly are you from in Western PA? Quite frankly, I've never known Western PA people to point out our "accent" although I've had New Yorker friends do it all the time, saying it's a Midwest accent (most of us don't even consider Pittsburgh mid-west).
And to expand on the geographical impact of accents, within Pittsburgh we have our own range of accents that we make fun of among ourselves. The Steelers (our football team) are called the Stillers. We don't go Downtown; we go Dahntahn. We don't use Towels after showering, we use Tiles. There was a book published some years ago about how to speak Pittsburghese, and most Pittsburghers I know always know how to have a good laugh at ourselves, almost, as said before, to the point of pride.
For those who appreciate grammar, a very common problem here are sentences constructed as follows:
The car needs washed.
The house needs painted.
You'll hear Pittsburghers saying this all the time, including some teachers, college professors, doctors, and so on without even realizing it's incorrect! Here, it is accepted and natural. My mom taught English in college and believe me, although I grew up here, I was NOT allowed to use this very common and incorrect structure!
Re: Metrics/English
Julie, like you, I am from Pittsburgh (still have ties and families and properties there). And you're right, some people from New York or LA can tell immediately if someone's from Pittsburgh. And I can tell if someone's from the Bronx -- I used to work with a guy with a VERY strong "Nu Yuork" accent.
Here's a classic Pittsburghese (I'm fudging with the spelling...):
Q: Djijet?
A: Nodju?
Julie, like you, I am from Pittsburgh (still have ties and families and properties there). And you're right, some people from New York or LA can tell immediately if someone's from Pittsburgh. And I can tell if someone's from the Bronx -- I used to work with a guy with a VERY strong "Nu Yuork" accent.
Here's a classic Pittsburghese (I'm fudging with the spelling...):
Q: Djijet?
A: Nodju?
Re: Aboot
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> I used to work with a guy with a VERY strong "Nu Yuork" accent.<hr></blockquote>
Most of the New Yokers I've known have been from Lon' Gisland.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Here's a classic Pittsburghese (I'm fudging with the spelling...):
Q: Djijet?
A: Nodju?
<hr></blockquote>
You have to explain that to the non Pittsburghers, or they'll think you're from Mars (which is located in Pennsylvania, by the way).
If I've picked up your spelling correctly, I'd say this is the typical:
Q: Did you eat yet?
A: No. Did you?
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> I used to work with a guy with a VERY strong "Nu Yuork" accent.<hr></blockquote>
Most of the New Yokers I've known have been from Lon' Gisland.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Here's a classic Pittsburghese (I'm fudging with the spelling...):
Q: Djijet?
A: Nodju?
<hr></blockquote>
You have to explain that to the non Pittsburghers, or they'll think you're from Mars (which is located in Pennsylvania, by the way).
If I've picked up your spelling correctly, I'd say this is the typical:
Q: Did you eat yet?
A: No. Did you?
- Status