Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Neversage · Apr 29, 2009

Oh, this is good. I've been reading the Circle of Magic series, and getting a sense of this "style" thing Uncle Jim speaks of. Hearing more about him and how he came to be is interesting and educational.

By the way, congratulations on forty-three months, Sarber : ) Here's all the encouragement I have in a neat little box. [Encouragement Box]

smsarber · Apr 29, 2009

Thank you!

SarahMacManus · Apr 29, 2009

linton said:
To me that's the hardest part. When you feel you've actually finished writing the novel and wou're all drained, and you need another ten or twenty thousand words. It's total torture. I know, just use "What if?" but it doesn't work for me.

I feel your pain. It really HURT. My beta was saying "I want more!"

There was no MORE - it was a tiny perfect jewel - it said everything it needed to say. It was a small, intimate story, but nonetheless a complete novel. *sigh* I was happy with it, anyway. And yes, I'm going to start rewriting it soon. It needs restructuring.

After, will do as Jim suggests and looking for smaller-size publishers.

BlueLucario · Apr 29, 2009

Okay. Does anyone here actually write in the novels you read?

There's this book I read, and a book I'm currently reading now, and I feel like it needs a nice good critique.

CaroGirl · Apr 29, 2009

BlueLucario said:
Okay. Does anyone here actually write in the novels you read?

There's this book I read, and a book I'm currently reading now, and I feel like it needs a nice good critique.

What do you mean? Like, write in the margins of the book I'm reading? No, not since university.

Or do you mean write ABOUT the novels I read, like reviews? I keep a list of the books I read and I write a short review of my impression of the book, for future reference. But I don't submit reviews for publication. I know a few people here who are published professional book reviewers.

Or do you mean edit the novels as I read them? I try not to read novels that still need to be edited. That just annoys me. If I need to edit them while I'm reading, it's too late. I'll stop reading a poorly edited published book if it's bad enough.

BlueLucario · Apr 29, 2009

CaroGirl said:
What do you mean? Like, write in the margins of the book I'm reading? No, not since university.

Or do you mean write ABOUT the novels I read, like reviews? I keep a list of the books I read and I write a short review of my impression of the book, for future reference. But I don't submit reviews for publication. I know a few people here who are published professional book reviewers.

Or do you mean edit the novels as I read them? I try not to read novels that still need to be edited. That just annoys me. If I need to edit them while I'm reading, it's too late. I'll stop reading a poorly edited published book if it's bad enough.

I mean like nitpick every little thing wrong with the book, directly in the book. Or nitpick on what you liked about it.

I felt like this would be a good method of taking notes. Like writing in a textbook

James D. Macdonald · Apr 29, 2009

No, I haven't done that. But I've suggested that people take cheap paperbacks, highliters, and mark things like dialog tags, passive constructions, appearances of minor characters, and other things to make more obvious the way the blocks fit together.

Blue Sky · Apr 29, 2009

Hey Blue,

Maybe see if you like doing that and let us know? My memory tends to be very visual. Such a technique might help me remember both the story and my first impressions.

I recall seeing used books marked up like that, but at the time I had huge issues with writing in books. HUGE.

Maybe I'll try it when I get Jack Vance's "Tchai: Planet of Adventure" compilation? I'm already almost six hundred pages into War and Peace, so I'll probably wait.

Thanks,

Phil

Perle_Rare · Apr 29, 2009

Blue Sky said:
I recall seeing used books marked up like that, but at the time I had huge issues with writing in books. HUGE.

When I see a marked up book in a used book store, I always assume it was used for a class of some sort. I stay away from those because I get trapped analyzing the reason why someone would have thought to mark up that particular spot and that pulls me right out of the story.

My father once remarked to me that a co-worker of his had a habit of highlighting important sentences in technical reference manuals. My father had no issue with that but he was amazed at how much stuff the guy highlighted in each of his manuals. After a while, my father realized that the guy was highlighting anything that he couldn't understand in case it might be important.

No, I never marked up my books...

MiltonPope · Apr 29, 2009

On Writing in Books

When a writer handed Studs Terkel one of Terkel's books to sign, Terkel asked if he'd read it. "But...you didn't mark in it!" Apparently Terkel carried on a lively dialogue with the author in the margins of most of the books he read.

Judg · Apr 29, 2009

Even in university I didn't usually mark up my books, and if I did, it was only in pencil. I inserted tons of tiny bookmarks made of shreds of newspaper, with a quick pencil check on the page to show what had interested me.

I'm still rather horrified at the idea of marking up a book. I do it sometimes, but I have to force myself.

smsarber · Apr 29, 2009

If I find an interesting passage, or something I have a problem with, I sometimes note the line, paragraph, and page number on a post-it note, then stick the note to the appropriate page. No need to write in the book then.

euclid · Apr 30, 2009

It's okay to mark library books - apparently.

euclid · Apr 30, 2009

I've always thought that (popular) songs consist of two main elements: The melody and the lyrics. The really great songs have great melodies and great lyrics. Some songs have great lyrics, but dull melodies; others have great melodies but poor lyrics. Of course instrumental musical pieces have no lyrics, and rap music has no melody.

We all fit along a continuum, from those who think the lyric is everything through to those who never listen to the lyrics, but love a good tune. I'm close to the latter end of that spectrum; my wife is firmly at the other end (with the rappers).

I now think that maybe books have two main elements: Plot and Voice. Again, the really good books have strong plot and voice, and people gravitate either towards books that are plot-driven or to those that have a strong voice.

Anybody agree? Disagree?

Perle_Rare · Apr 30, 2009

I'm afraid I have to take a break from this thread...

Last night, I dreamed that Uncle Jim visited my house to teach me how to write character descriptions. In particular, I distinctly remember a lecture on how much or little to include when describing a character's clothing.

I kid you not.

:Shrug:

linton · Apr 30, 2009

Blue Sky said:
I recall seeing used books marked up like that, but at the time I had huge issues with writing in books. HUGE.

Thanks,

Phil

I'm with you on that. I've done it and it has always bothered me. I just think they are sacrosanct. Whenever I see a page marked with a turn down in a library book, I always straighten it out and wonder what kind of asshole did this. I've never been able to throw a book away. No matter how bad it is I'll find someone or someplace to leave it.

Neversage · Apr 30, 2009

euclid said:
I've always thought that (popular) songs consist of two main elements: The melody and the lyrics. The really great songs have great melodies and great lyrics. Some songs have great lyrics, but dull melodies; others have great melodies but poor lyrics. Of course instrumental musical pieces have no lyrics, and rap music has no melody.

We all fit along a continuum, from those who think the lyric is everything through to those who never listen to the lyrics, but love a good tune. I'm close to the latter end of that spectrum; my wife is firmly at the other end (with the rappers).

I now think that maybe books have two main elements: Plot and Voice. Again, the really good books have strong plot and voice, and people gravitate either towards books that are plot-driven or to those that have a strong voice.

Anybody agree? Disagree?

I would define it a little differently. You have the lyrics, which send a message, but the music with them gives the emotional content. This is general, and it's not that black and white, but I think my point is clear.

With writing, we have the plot, or the events of the story; and we have the voice, or the way those events are communicated.

In short: the plot events are the notes, the voice is the expression of those notes. I think this is a very useful way of looking at it. Each paragraph is a note in the melody of the story. Sometimes it's great to use vibrato, sometimes you play it louder; whatever works best.

FOTSGreg · Apr 30, 2009

Perle Rare wrote, I'm afraid I have to take a break from this thread...

Last night, I dreamed that Uncle Jim visited my house to teach me how to write character descriptions. In particular, I distinctly remember a lecture on how much or little to include when describing a character's clothing.

I kid you not.

Now, how do you know for sure it wasn't Uncle Jim in the flesh instead of a dream?

I hear he has "powers"...

I'm just sayin'...

smsarber · Apr 30, 2009

That explains the beard hairs I keep finding in the sink!!

Ken Schneider · Apr 30, 2009

BlueLucario said:
Okay. Does anyone here actually write in the novels you read?

There's this book I read, and a book I'm currently reading now, and I feel like it needs a nice good critique.

I once read a book and hated how it ended, so I wrote another two pages and pasted them in the back. That was in 1979 or 80. I still have the book with the type-written pages pasted in it.

Last night, I dreamed that Uncle Jim visited my house to teach me how to write character descriptions. In particular, I distinctly remember a lecture on how much or little to include when describing a character's clothing.

When I first began reading LWWUJ thread way back when, I had couple dreams that Jim would call me and grill me and asked me how many pages I read that day, or rip me for not reading enough. LOL. This dreamspun telepathy kept me motivated and reading to the end.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 30, 2009

euclid said:
It's okay to mark library books - apparently.

People who mark library books go to a special Hell.

Blue Sky · Apr 30, 2009

linton: I've managed to toss some abysmal books, but I thought about it for awhile. My "stacks" as my aunts call them take up a spare bedroom.

The main reason I don't mark in books is that if I end up liking one, I'll prefer a clean second read without notations. Perhaps I'll have to buy two copies of a few good one's I'd like to look at very closely.

smsarber · Apr 30, 2009

People who mark library books go to a special Hell.

__________________

Where they spend eternity listening to Phyllis Diller reading Danielle Steele books 24/7, 365!

Calliopenjo · Apr 30, 2009

Uncle Jim,

When writing novel outlines, do they look like the outlines you learned how to make when you were a kid? Or do they look different? I tried researching it but I'm getting different answers.

smsarber · Apr 30, 2009

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Part of the Scenery

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Blood Elves FTW

Living the dream

Blood Elves FTW

Your Genial Uncle

Dragon rider

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Where did I put me specs?

Where did I put me specs?

Dragon rider

Part of the Scenery

Today is your last day.

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Absolute sagebrush

Your Genial Uncle

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Esteemed thinker

Coming soon to a nightmare near you