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[Publisher] Simon & Schuster

HistorySleuth

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I'm not comfortable putting a spin on this just because it's Simon & Schuster. It's vanity publishing. I'm agreeing with HapiSofi's assessment.

Not only that, you still have to buy your books. 1-24 is 30% discount. Discount goes higher up to 1000-1999 60% discount.

If the retailer places an order through Ingram a $17.95 book will give the author a $1.56 royalty. (Pretty sucky) If a consumer purchase direct from Archway the author will get $6.49. Their royalty pricing is here. It's all based on net, ebooks too. I don't see book buyers going to the Publisher site to browse books, to be honest. Like it or not, it's easier to go to Amazon. I see their ebooks will be on Amazon, not sure on the hard copies.

No way an author, paying this expensive package prices, plus buy the books could ever expect to see that money earn back.

If you do it yourself on createspace, even if you paid someone for cover design and layout, I don't see it ever coming up to that many thousands of dollars. Plus people can keep buying your book using createspace or lulu at no extra cost to you, unlike the author purchasing a certain amount of books at a discount first.

Taking createspace and lulu out of it, I've self-published before. I paid for printing based on quantity. No "packages" pricing added on. Yes, I easily made back my investment and then some.
 
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Eriador117

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How would you class CreateSpace, Lulu, KDP, Smashwords, etc., which don't charge fees? These services too will publish anyone. And though the author isn't paying, s/he also isn't acting as his or her own publisher--s/he is using a service with defined Terms of Use and service limits, is dependent on the service provider's distribution network, and is absolutely subject to discretion of the service provider, which reserves the right to terminate his or her account at will.

I struggle with all this terminology and with the definitions, and with how loaded some of these terms are.

Maybe, these days, a "true" self-publisher is one who employs a variety of different strategies, and services, to reach different audiences--whether or not he or she chooses to pay.

- Victoria

I think of Lulu and Smashwords as a platform for self-publishing, but I don't know if that would be a legal definition or anything like that. I do my own layouts for Smashwords and Lulu and outsource cover design, which was always the most expensive part. I did make the money back on the covers from sales, but I don't think I would be paying those S&S prices.

I'm reading a book for review at the moment, it's a third book in a series where S&S published the first two, but wouldn't publish the third one. The author did get a UK publishing deal, but is self-publishing in the US (not with the S&S self-publishing arm, LOL!)
 

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How would you class CreateSpace, Lulu, KDP, Smashwords, etc., which don't charge fees? These services too will publish anyone. And though the author isn't paying, s/he also isn't acting as his or her own publisher--s/he is using a service with defined Terms of Use and service limits, is dependent on the service provider's distribution network, and is absolutely subject to discretion of the service provider, which reserves the right to terminate his or her account at will.

I guess it depends a little bit on how you use them, but here's how I'd broadly classify them:

Smashwords: is a distributor, rather than a publisher. They put your book in a whole lot of online bookstores.

KDP: is an agreement to put your book in one specific bookstore.

CreateSpace/Lulu: can be publishers, but can also be used simply as printers and/or distributors.

What none of these services do is: editing, copyediting, proofreading, cover design. That is, none of the things which publishers do to ensure the final product meets a certain standard.

I'd say that a self-publisher is responsible for all of those things as well as making their own decisions about which distributors/printers/retailers to use.

ETA: Having thought about it a bit more, I think the thing about those other services and self-publishing, is that the various different functions of a publisher are separated. So it's hard to be definitive about what counts as 'publishing'. The old-school vanity publishing was more or less an expensive printing service, without doing any editing, distribution or marketing. Something like the S&S model claims to provide more of those things, but I'm sceptical about how much.
 
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writeontime

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I saw the write up on the S&S self-publishing venture in Bookseller.

The prices for the various packages are eye-watering.

I can't help but wonder if there are writers out there who will be tempted by those packages...
 

Becky Black

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I was just reading an article about how the law is changing in the US in 2013 and will allow writers to terminate contracts after 35 years on books published from 1978 onwards, to get their rights back.

Publishers brace for authors to reclaim book rights in 2013

The book publishing industry, already facing disruption from Amazon and e-books, will confront a new form of turbulence in 2013. Starting in January, publishers face the loss of their back lists as authors begin using the Copyright Act to reclaim works they assigned years ago.

I don't really know much about that, but the article implies that some big name writers could start getting their rights back and self-publishing their backlists. To some of them, the kind of fees S&S are proposing would be a drop in the bucket compared to the potential returns.

Is it a coincidence? Maybe I'm just in tinfoil hat territory, but it's interesting timing to me.
 

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It's about time. The mega-bestsellers will always find an angle in any market. But there are too many midlist and lesser authors just in the sf&f mass-market alone who published after 1978, went out of print, and still have publishers sitting on the rights to those works. With creative self-publishing, the authors or their estates might be able to make money again.

But I sure wouldn't pay the S&S prices for publishing services.

Maybe this will jolt the publishers into looking at their dead backlists again with a little more creativity?
 

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How anyone can look at that site and not think it's a vanity press ripoff is beyond my comprehension. It follows the same formula of appealing to writers' lack of knowledge and exploiting their dreams. It pretends to be a press. It makes hyperbolic and often silly statements that have little or no relevance to the real world of publishing. Most of all, it massively overcharges for everything.

They're predators. Pure and simple.
 

victoriastrauss

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It's about time. The mega-bestsellers will always find an angle in any market. But there are too many midlist and lesser authors just in the sf&f mass-market alone who published after 1978, went out of print, and still have publishers sitting on the rights to those works.
The 35-year rule really isn't relevant to writers who've gone out of print. Once your publisher takes you out of print, there are clauses in your contract that ensure that you can demand your rights back. Such requests are almost always granted (though they may take a little while to work their way through the bureaucracy). I exercised all my reversion clauses for my OOP books a couple of years ago.

The 35-year provision is for authors (and other creators) whose works are still in print and being sold. It was put in place to make sure that inexperienced creators who sold their rights for a song and later became successful would be able to regain their rights at some point, and exploit them more lucratively.

- Victoria
 

victoriastrauss

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BTW, I blogged about Archway Publishing today. For me, the problem isn't so much traditional publishers adding self-publishing divisions--which I can live with if they're run ethically; things change, after all--but choosing to ally themselves with a company like ASI, which is so exploitive of authors and has such a poor reputation for quality and service.

- Victoria
 

sarahdalton

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How anyone can look at that site and not think it's a vanity press ripoff is beyond my comprehension. It follows the same formula of appealing to writers' lack of knowledge and exploiting their dreams. It pretends to be a press. It makes hyperbolic and often silly statements that have little or no relevance to the real world of publishing. Most of all, it massively overcharges for everything.

They're predators. Pure and simple.

I couldn't agree more. It makes me very angry.

This blog post pretty much sums it all up: http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/...ces-with-author-solutions-to-rip-off-writers/
 

Katie Elle

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Victoria mentioned this in her blog, and it was something that stuck out vividly to me as well: the concentration on print and brick and mortar retail channels.

That tells me, they have no interest in actually serving the "self publishing" market. They're only interested in ripping off customers based on ignorance and fantasies of being a Great Writer. Anyone involved in the "self publishing" world knows that ebooks are the market. But they're not interested in selling books, they're interested in selling dreams.
 

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I don't know exactly what's going on but I've heard various rumours about problems between S&S and Barnes and Noble. Today an author is saying that S&S have forced him to cancel two signings he had arranged with local B&N stores. I've also heard things about S&S books not being shelved at B&N. Seems troubling to me.

Here's the link to the blog about the signings: http://williamkentkrueger.com/blog/?p=233
 

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I signed up for something over at Archway (a S&S thing), can't remember what, maybe just a newsletter, or a submission guide or something. After that, one of their reps has been trying to reach me countless times. I have checked and it really is a rep.

Since they have 0 information on who I am, what i write and even if i have anything ready I back away from them for now. I have never heard of any publishing service that needs to employ hard-sales tactics to fill their rosters. Archway is a pay-service, but still. All their frenetic door knocking does is make me back away.

if anyone has experience with Archway please share.
 
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MickRooney

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I signed up for something over at Archway (a S&S thing), can't remember what, maybe just a newsletter, or a submission guide or something. After that, one of their reps has been trying to reach me countless times. I have checked and it really is a rep.

Actually, in reality, it's an Author Solutions thing! Archway is the self-publishing service imprint run FOR Simon & Schuster and entirely BY Author Solutions.

The rep trying to reach you works for AS, not Simon & Schuster, and not even Archway! Those reps won't give up easy!
 

gingerwoman

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I don't have enough information to speculate about this, but if you held a gun to my head, I'd guess that the program was ASI's idea, but S&S had some input on the prices.

I'm looking through the specific services offered. It's unbelievably ugly.
I get the impression all big publishers involved in these things simply buy in and then let Author Solutions handle all of it, and then try to forget the seedy things exist apart from watching the money roll in. I think you call it a "sleeping stake."
I came across this article http://www.thepassivevoice.com/05/2013/the-author-exploitation-business/
 
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Madeleines

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During the #PitMad twitter event, one of S&S's editorial assistants (Brit Hvide) requested to see my first few chapters. I've been told this is a good thing??

The talk of Archway & Author Solutions above is a bit unnerving...
 

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Saga Press (SF, F, H imprint Simon & Schuster)

Don't know if there is a dedicated thread for these guys yet, but I just saw this in Publisher's Weekly: 'After announcing initial plans in October, Simon & Schuster has unveiled the name and logo for its new imprint dedicated to science fiction, fantasy and horror.'

The initial PW article is here, and today's news here. This is a different outfit than S&S imprint Simon451, and will feature a predominately adult list.

ETA: I added a second 'F' in the title, it should be 'H' for horror. Mods?
 
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Roly

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Any more info on Saga Press? How is it different than other S&S ya/children's imprints other than focusing on SFF? Does that mean that S&S's children's imprint no longer takes SFF submissions?
 

Krista G.

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Any more info on Saga Press? How is it different than other S&S ya/children's imprints other than focusing on SFF? Does that mean that S&S's children's imprint no longer takes SFF submissions?

Roly, one of my CPs was at a small writers' workshop that Joe Monti attended, and she was really impressed with him, both one-on-one and in his keynote address. Though she's an unagented writer, he gave her his full attention during their critique session, said some really nice things about her work (which the other workshop attendees had just trashed), and even shooed another writer out of the room when she tried to cut in. During his keynote address, he talked about how so much of publishing is driven by trends and buzz words, so it's easy for great stories to slip through the cracks--stories that maybe have a less marketable element or aren't another Harry Potter/Twilight/Hunger Games knockoff.

Now, I don't know how effective he and the other editors will be at implementing that vision--at the end of the day, the dudes with the money make most of the decisions--but I appreciate that they're on the lookout for manuscripts that break the mold.

(Also, I DON'T think it means that other S&S children's imprints won't look at fantasy and sci-fi; I just think it means that Saga Press specializes in those genres.)