"A bit thin"

Diviner · Apr 4, 2007

One of my beta readers said, "I really like your story and the characters, but the book seems a bit thin." She added, "I mean, I read books like that and like them--and I liked yours. I just thought I'd mention it." She reads mostly literary fiction, and mine is an adventure story, but I am still wrestling with her comment.

My story, 109000wc, has pathos, persecution, a moral dilemma, guilt, betrayal, treason, executions, a Butch Cassidy-type chase, and a failed love affair; she is not talking about length or plot. (By the way, all those elements except for the love affair, which was meant to lighten the story, are integral.) On thinking it over, I realize there is enough here for Trollope or Rowland, but as an unpublished novelist, I doubt I should make my novel longer.

I take her comment seriously because it reflects so painfully my own doubts, but I struggle to know what to do. One of my writing teachers called my style "spare," but I don't think that is what this reader meant.

So what do I do:

Shop it anyway and go on to the next?

Put it in a drawer?

Give up and go back to my day job?

Fix it? Is there some new way I can look at my work to see what I have actually written as opposed to what I think I have written?

Devil Ledbetter · Apr 4, 2007

If she normally reads lit fic, she may have been expecting more description, perhaps a slower pace. That doesn't mean you should change it to suit her though, especially since it's not lit fic.

WildScribe · Apr 4, 2007

Leave it for a while. Read it later... post it in SYW so we can actually make relevant comments... etc.

The Grift · Apr 4, 2007

First, define your terms. It seems to me you still don't know what she means by "thin."

After you figure that out, do some self-aware rereads, figure out if you agree with her, and if you do, then decide whether or not that "thin"-ness is a bad thing. Could be it is just your writing style and she doesnt care for it.

Having made the necessary edits (or lack thereof) ship it out.

Will Lavender · Apr 4, 2007

The Grift said:
First, define your terms. It seems to me you still don't know what she means by "thin."

After you figure that out, do some self-aware rereads, figure out if you agree with her, and if you do, then decide whether or not that "thin"-ness is a bad thing. Could be it is just your writing style and she doesnt care for it.

Having made the necessary edits (or lack thereof) ship it out.

Exactly. I would want to know exactly what "thin" meant.

There's a difference I think between "thin" and "spare." Thin might be a reference to your genre; spare seems to be a reference to your style.

Maybe she meant thin in terms of theme? I sometimes think that genre fiction is lacking in theme; if so, I would probably call it thin.

Anyway, I wouldn't make it longer. 109K is a whopper.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 4, 2007

Beta

Keep showing it to beta readers until you find one who says it's a bit thick. Then you'll know it is, on average, perfect.

Send the thing to an agent who knows what she's doing. Then send it to another and another. If they all say it's thin, you may have a problem. Until then, I wouldn't worry for a second about such a comment from a beta reader.

Claudia Gray · Apr 4, 2007

I agree with Will and Grift. This person's critique resonates with you, for some reason; you have to figure out what that is before you can really know how to evaluate the criticism. It may simply be a difference in the style of thing she normally reads versus what you write, as others have said, in which case it's probably best to soldier on. But sometimes comments really strike home with us for a reason. I'd say reread it, figure out what she means by thin, and if there's something there you can use to rework the novel and make it even better, do so.

And don't forget to thank your friend. A lot of people will not give any negative opinion, no matter how slight or valid, about a friend's work; the fact that she was willing to do so is proof that she's committed to seeing you do your best. Even if the "thinness" turns out to be only a matter of opinion, it was still an honest opinion, and those are worth a lot.

NeuroFizz · Apr 4, 2007

Very little can be said about a subjective endeavor like this with an evaluation sample size of one.

swvaughn · Apr 4, 2007

Right -- if your beta reader is used to lit fic, and you have an adventure story, it may be just her opinion. Everything's so darned subjective!

If you think it's ready, sub away.

Siddow · Apr 4, 2007

Ask your beta for clarification of what she means by thin. It's certainly not length.

Perhaps depth? In that case, you may safely disregard the comment. Yours is not li'try fiction, remember?

I'm with JAR; send it out and let the folks who can score you a book deal decide whether or not it's 'thin'.

Mike Martyn · Apr 4, 2007

If you still want to pursue it, why don't you ask her for the name of a book that she likes (ie: that' s not "Thin"). Then read it . You might find it's overly descriptive and pretentiously self referential. You might find it's by James Joyce!

Oops! I have just revealed that I am a literay barbarian.

PeeDee · Apr 4, 2007

It's just beta readers. THey aren't the make-all end-all of...er...anything. Sorry.

And I'm not sure I'd use Anthony Trollop as an an example, since his books were massively thick tomes that you could stun a burglar with.

scarletpeaches · Apr 4, 2007

PeeDee! You're online!

James D. Macdonald · Apr 4, 2007

Novels function on four levels:

There is the obvious the surface level. Many of your readers won't see beyond this, and the story has to work here. There's the moral level: The struggle of good vs. evil; the struggle of one good against another. There's the rational level. This appeals to the mind, and advances an argument. (All art is in communication with all other art. Here is where you agree, disagree, or comment on other art. This is where you advocate a course of action.) Last is the allegorical level. This is the symbolic use of history, of religion, of science, of anything where the grand metaphors play out.

You should balance all four of these, and your story will be richer and fuller. Your readers may not realize what you're doing, but if you're doing them they will know that they're in the presence of a superior story. This too makes the difference between a sold story and an unsold story. Anyone can do a surface story. It takes an artist to do all four levels, keep them balanced, and make them all work together.

Diviner · Apr 4, 2007

PeeDee said:
And I'm not sure I'd use Anthony Trollop as an an example, since his books were massively thick tomes that you could stun a burglar with.

That was my point. Was I obscure?

Diviner · Apr 4, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
Novels function on four levels:

There is the obvious the surface level. Many of your readers won't see beyond this, and the story has to work here. There's the moral level: The struggle of good vs. evil; the struggle of one good against another. There's the rational level. This appeals to the mind, and advances an argument. (All art is in communication with all other art. Here is where you agree, disagree, or comment on other art. This is where you advocate a course of action.) Last is the allegorical level. This is the symbolic use of history, of religion, of science, of anything where the grand metaphors play out.

You should balance all four of these, and your story will be richer and fuller. Your readers may not realize what you're doing, but if you're doing them they will know that they're in the presence of a superior story. This too makes the difference between a sold story and an unsold story. Anyone can do a surface story. It takes an artist to do all four levels, keep them balanced, and make them all work together.

This was what I was wondering about. I'm not sure I understand how it relates to my work, nor if I actually understand what you are saying, but I shall ponder this. Thanks, James.

PeeDee · Apr 4, 2007

Diviner said:
That was my point. Was I obscure?

Sorry, no, I was illiterate. I thought you were pointing at Trollopian novels as examples of good, thin novels. Mea culpa & twit.

scarletpeaches said:
PeeDee! You're online!

I am. I really am.

scarletpeaches · Apr 4, 2007

Wow. That's amazing.

PeeDee · Apr 4, 2007

I know. I can't believe it's me either.

Ali B · Apr 4, 2007

PeeDee said:
It's just beta readers. THey aren't the make-all end-all of...er...anything. Sorry.

I agree. A lot of writers put too much stock in what betas say. I realize that you can glean helpful info from a beta test, but if you feel your book's ready and the betas aren't telling you anything useful then shop it. I don't think "it's thin" fits into the helpful side unless she tells you why she thinks it's thin.

scarletpeaches · Apr 4, 2007

PeeDee said:
I know. I can't believe it's me either.

Have some beans.

PeeDee · Apr 4, 2007

alinasandor said:
I agree. A lot of writers put too much stock in what betas say. I realize that you can glean helpful info from a beta test, but if you feel your book's ready and the betas aren't telling you anything useful then shop it. I don't think "it's thin" fits into the helpful side unless she tells you why she thinks it's thin.

You can likewise glean helpful information from these forums, from a How To Write book, from writer interviews, from a bloke down in the pub....but you shouldn't hang your hat on any of them.

"A bit thin"

What should I do?

Shop it anyway.

Put it in a drawer.

Go back to your day job.

Fix it using ??? suggestions.

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