Are Westerns history?

Are westerns history?

  • Yep. Deadier than Billy the Kid.

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • Not yet, but the sun's not quite set yet. Soon though.

    Votes: 2 4.0%
  • Dormant. Like a frog in the mud during the winter.

    Votes: 6 12.0%
  • It's just a market that is on the down cycle. It'll come back.

    Votes: 28 56.0%
  • Other : Please specify what you think.

    Votes: 8 16.0%
  • Westerns? What in tarnation are westerns? Did they die out with black and white TV?

    Votes: 2 4.0%

  • Total voters
    50

JeanneTGC

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Per the pundits, there are only 3 individual storylines that exist, and everything else is an offshoot of these.

1. Boy meets girl
2. Good versus evil
3. Man against nature

I think Westerns, like every other genre, can work for all three of these. I still maintain that all it will take is the right book at the right time, possibly supported by the right movies, TV movies and television shows, and the Western will be back.

The onus is really on all of us who write books set in the Old West -- we need to write the stories that remind people of why this was a great and fascinating time period.
 

JeanneTGC

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Are Westerns Dead Update

No, they're not.

My agent sold 4 Westerns -- 2 for an established author, 2 for a new author -- while she was on the road to the WWA conference this year.

It's not dead, and there ARE houses buying. I sat with the proof last month. ;)

BTW, there's a huge interest in Western non-fiction, too.

There are only a few agents and houses dealing with it, BUT they ARE dealing and looking for new talent. So keep on writing, editing, polishing and revising, because the door is not closed.
 

AussieBilly

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Jeanne... This is in response to a question you asked a while back about a comment I made in the Absolutewrite forum. don't remember? Well that's understandable... The comment/question was a few years back... In the spring of 2007!
My comment was on the over all question of whether the western genre was dead. I answered, as far as I was concerned, it was at that time alive an kicking. You then asked if I had had the benefit of an agent or had gone directly to the publisher. Well, if it's not too late, let me answer... No agent.
I found the publisher by going to the local library and perusing the western novels. Hale Publishing, my London publisher (I like saying that) publishes westerns and crime fiction and a couple non-fiction titles which he wholesales to libraries rthroughout the Commonwealth. Hale's book don't go to book stores. Their print run is for a thousand copies and rarely if ever reprint any titles. A novel will earn a one time royalty and that's it. Oh, often another publisher will reprint a large print edition which means another royalty check.
That's all and good but one never has any idea of how the reader feels about his/her work. And that is all I can tell you about my writing. When I made my comment to Absolutewrite, back a in 2007, I had only a couple novels accepted/published. Over the next few years that number grew to ten... Before I moved out ot the American west and into the California world of crime. I wrote my first crime story's which Hale published, The Argentine Kidnapping. The next couple novels were turned down and that was about it. I hung up my novelist title and went on to other endeavors.
However lately I've been thinking about trying it again. Only I'll not return to Hale. Hence my going to the Absolutewrite blog.
And there you have it... I apologize for taking so long to respond to your question. I hope in the interim you've become a published writer and found success.
Any other questions? Try me at [email protected]
Cheerio....
AussieBilly
 

blacbird

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My local Barnes & Noble has a full rack five or six shelves high and about ten feet long consisting entirely of "Western" novels and labeled as such. Most of these are of current or very recent vintage. There's clearly an audience out there for 'em, pardner.

caw
 

engmajor2005

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I most certainly hope Westerns aren't history, as I just finished the first draft of my first full-length novel, and it's a Western.

I do agree with a friend of mine who asserted once that unless your parents liked Westerns, you probably don't. I don't think there are as many people discovering the genre as there once was, but the faithful remain just that, and occasionally somebody gives one a try and likes it.
 

Elenitsa

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Which is the diference between a Western historical and one traditional? I mean, given that it happens before 1900, it is historical fiction anyway. I think there is something more to your idea of classification, and I am interested. Exactly how there is a difference between a love story and a romance, and I have ultimately learnt it, but I didn't understand it in the beginning.

Now, to reply to what you had asked - and what I misunderstood at start, but finally replied in the poll :) No, western genre isn't dead. As long as people read books and watch movies, it isn't dead. It might be slower than before - all historical fiction and adventure books are slower now because the movies come first.

And yes, I'll have a novel which second volume is western, since it is set in the West. And the sequel will be definitely 100% western. Just set a bit earlier than most westerns I have read - 1804-1830, more or less (because yes, in the sequel I am trying to include up to the Cherokee trail of tears).

Funny that you mention Louis l'Amour among the greatest writers of Western. For me, it;s Karl May, Fenimore Cooper, Zane Grey and Willa Carter (or Cather)?
 
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shootseven

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The western only dies if interest in the west dies, and while it's slowed some, I don't see that happening any time soon. Just look at the news coverage the alleged photo of Billy the Kid playing croquet received. That was world wide news and it in all probability wasn't even him.

If there's still that much interest in Billy the Kid there surely is a market for westerns.
 

noirdood

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The big budget sci fi movie was dead until Star Wars came out and that changed everything. Now you can't get away from the stuff. Of course most of it is pseudo-science melodrama but what the hay. Westerns need a big break like SW.
A huge portion of westerns is wall-to-wall baloney. The shootout at high noon between the white hat and the black hat is more kabuki than western. Back in them days they shot people in the back. Much more efficient. The whites treated the natives like ISIS treats people but the whites usually are the good guys in the stories (I'm white, if you must know. But I ain't stoopid.)
I love a good western but something like that is as scarce as free, independent Native Americans.
 

blacbird

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I love a good western but something like that is as scarce as free, independent Native Americans.

Hyperbole, I think, though I agree with the overall sentiment. But, that said, I'll recommend a few "western" movies I consider damn good, for a variety of reasons:

The Ox-Bow Incident, made around 1940, starring a young Henry Fonda. Based on the wonderful novel by Walter Van Tilburg Clark, I'm astonished it has never been remade. It's a literary drama masquerading as a western, but brilliantly so. In the era of remakes, I'm surprised this one hasn't been redone. I can see DiCaprio and Gyllenhaal in it.

Posse, made around 1960, starring Kirk Douglas and Bruce Dern, both in roles that start out as typical for them (Douglas as hero, Dern as villain), and morph into something quite different. One of Douglas's best performances.

There Was a Crooked Man, also made around 1960, and starring Douglas and Fonda, again both in non-stereotypical roles.

Once Upon a Time in the West, Fonda is also in this one, along with Jason Robards and Charles Bronson. An Epic, in the classical sense, with great music (Ennio Morricone, I believe) as well.

High Plains Drifter. Clint Eastwood at his surly best.

Unforgiven. Eastwood again, but as a strange mix of vulnerable and nasty. He got an Oscar for direction, and was nominated for one as Best Actor.

Open Range, with Robert Duvall and Kevin Costner. A small-scale personal drama in a big-scale setting, beautifully constructed and performed.

McCabe and Mrs. Miller. One of the several problematical films by Robert Altman, who could be hit or miss with his work. This one hits. A gritty drama with unexpected developments.

Hombre, with Paul Newman and Richard Boone. Based on an Elmore Leonard novel, it is a taut, atmospheric drama with Boone's villainous performance being especially chilling.

The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, an over-the-top pastiche and parody of the western genre, very very loosely based on the career of a real live character in the Old West, starring Paul Newman and featuring vivid roles by Roddy MacDowell, John Huston and Stacy Keach. Hilarious and heartbreaking by turns, and worth a watch anytime.

caw
 
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dpaterso

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Yep, sure are plenty of classics out there that are still watchable and always will be, but what's been made recently and became a hit recently? And are there any parallels with recent western novels and stories.

-Derek
 

porlock

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Even though my writing is mainly mystery/crime, I still enjoy a good western. There's the modern version, like Longmire and the tv series Hell on Wheels did well. Even Elmore Leonard's Justified was basically a western. There's the magazine Cowboys and Indians and Tony Hillerman's Navaho mysteries have the flavor. Star Wars is of course a space western. I'll admit the genre is in a slump, but so is my original focus, the P.I. novel. I just keep plugging and hope for the best.

Western music has made a small comeback and the annual cowboy gathering features that and poetry. I've written some cowboy poetry myself, about stampedes and gunslingers and lost gold mines - mainly for the fun of it, as I doubt any will be published.

I guess it's because I'm a native Texan, but I grew up on the genre and hope it continues.
 

Kevin Rohrer

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I see this thread is 10-years old. I get the Western Writers of America magazine four times a year, and don't see the genre dying, or even being dormant. There are lots of novels, historical books, and movies, and they are doing well. There are also several TV westerns that are quite popular on the cable channels.

My one complaint about western novels is that writers in-general and writing magazines in-particular do not think westerns are legitimate fiction.