A couple of dialogue questions....

Lyxdeslic · Mar 26, 2007

Friends, countrymen (and countrywomen), hell, non-countrymen/countrywomen, fellow writers...lend me your ears.

I have a couple of questions in regard to dialogue. I'm interested in all opinions and feedback that you have to offer.

First, in my WIP, several characters have the ability to communicate via telepathy. With that in mind, when a conversation is taking place between them, should the dialogue be italicized and in quotes?

Example:
"Where do you think you're going with that suitcase, Ben?" She asked without voice.
He turned back to face her and, without the slightest movement of his lips, replied "What's the difference?" He nodded toward the crumpled body on the floor. "He won't be needing it anymore."

I realize, naturally, there is a distinct rule that internal thoughts should be in italics. Nevertheless, is there a definitive rule for when a telepathic conversation is taking place?

Secondly -- long winded dialogue. I have one scene where a character is enlightening a group of people as to a conspiracy that has taken place in the world for hundreds of years. There is so much to be said that I worry the dialogue, itself, may reverse its intended purpose. Dialogue is supposed to draw a reader in to the story, not pull them out. What he's saying is key and, IMHO, fresh; not to mention pertinent to the plot continuance. My worry is that you don't see, in stories today, dialogue from one character that runs close to an entire page at times. Sure, I can -- and have -- broken it up at times between the use of the narrative filling in some of the blanks, or another character interrupting to ask a question. But, there is one point where I simply can't get around delivering a long but, again, IMHO, fruitful speech.

So, I guess my question is: If it's done well, is it okay to have one character, at one point only, deliver extended dialogue? I mean, if he's the only one who knows the facts of a world-wide conspiracy...ya know?

Thanks for your help.

PeeDee · Mar 26, 2007

Lyxdeslic said:
So, I guess my question is: If it's done well, is it okay to have one character, at one point only, deliver extended dialogue? I mean, if he's the only one who knows the facts of a world-wide conspiracy...ya know?

Just becahse he's the only one who knows all the facts, doesn't mean it has to be a speech.

John got up and folded his hands, and he began, "As many of you know, the People With Cell Phones have increased in number these past few years, until you cannot go anywhere without seeing them. THey are in our traffic, our stores, our bedrooms, our homes. THey speak loudly at all times and you must hear every detail of their lives. They --"

"Yeah," said Michael suddenly. "Bloody wankers."

"Er. Right. Yes." John regathered his thoughts. "But the point is, what you don't know....the cell phone companies, you see. They're. I mean, the companies, they've got brain control devices in the phones."

"Pull the other one, it's got bells on," Rachael said.

"Damn it, I'm not making this up!" John snapped. "Listen, they're controlling us ALL through the cell phones!"

"Yeah? Who? Martians?"

"Hamsters!"

There was a long silence.

"Right." Rachael said. "I think this the bit where I go outside and have some air."

Vomaxx · Mar 26, 2007

On telepathy: if you establish the convention that italics in your book indicate telepathic speech (except, of course, for individual words occasionally italicized for emphasis), you remove the necessity of saying the communication is telepathic ("she asked without voice", etc.) This will save you a lot of repetitive words. There is, I think, no grammatical rule about telepathic speech--Strunck and White for some reason don't mention it

--but IMHO italics is a good idea.

Will Lavender · Mar 26, 2007

In the first draft of my novel, I had characters holding forth for pages about something-or-other. My agent wanted me to cut them, and I did. As PeeDee says, there's always a way to break up long bits of dialogue -- with exposition, with interruption, with interior thought.

So I'd break it up.

As for telepathy/dialogue, I would probably cut out the quotes and put it all in italics. No need, I don't think, for both.

Dan Simmons does this in his novel Carrion Comfort, and I believe he uses only italics.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 26, 2007

PeeDee said:
Just becahse he's the only one who knows all the facts, doesn't mean it has to be a speech.

John got up and folded his hands, and he began, "As many of you know, the People With Cell Phones have increased in number these past few years, until you cannot go anywhere without seeing them. THey are in our traffic, our stores, our bedrooms, our homes. THey speak loudly at all times and you must hear every detail of their lives. They --"

"Yeah," said Michael suddenly. "Bloody wankers."

"Er. Right. Yes." John regathered his thoughts. "But the point is, what you don't know....the cell phone companies, you see. They're. I mean, the companies, they've got brain control devices in the phones."

"Pull the other one, it's got bells on," Rachael said.

"Damn it, I'm not making this up!" John snapped. "Listen, they're controlling us ALL through the cell phones!"

"Yeah? Who? Martians?"

"Hamsters!"

There was a long silence.

"Right." Rachael said. "I think this the bit where I go outside and have some air."

Right. Good, all be it absurd, example. I guess I should also mention that it's imperative that the substance of the dialogue come through as believable. The other characters (in my WIP) have been asking doubt-filled questions up until this point. Now, we reach a point of thorough explanation.

There are a million variables why long dialogue won't work. With the aforesaid in mind, I suppose what I'm really asking is -- are there variables (I'm not asking for specific ones) that can be put in place, throughout the plot, that make this work?

Thanks, PeeDee. Damned Hampsters!

Mr. Fix · Mar 26, 2007

Did you hear something?

I too have some very long passages dealing with telepathic speech. My intent was to use Italics with bold, as this was the MC's only way to communicate. Since viewing many submission rules I have come to believe I must stick with only the italics. If I get a contract then maybe I can use some pressure to get the 'look' I like in my novel. I also see the italics as the most used way of getting this kind of dialog across in most things that I've read. Someone thinking to themselves, communication between two characters using telepathy, etc.

I would like to see more here from the experienced writers on this subject!

engmajor2005 · Mar 26, 2007

Ditto was Peedee said. The general rule is to never have dialogue go on more than a paragraph without some kind of break: another character speaking to turn a monologue into an exchange or a bit of narration.

As with all things writing, there is no hard and fast rule, and sometimes it takes writing it and editing it to see if you did it right or not.

PeeDee · Mar 26, 2007

Lyxdeslic said:
<Lyx grins from ear to ear>
Right. Good, all be it absurd, example. I guess I should also mention that it's imperative that the substance of the dialogue come through as believable. The other characters (in my WIP) have been asking doubt-filled questions up until this point. Now, we reach a point of thorough explanation.

Right, but the point of my example was not that you should make it goofy or light-hearted, just that you shouldn't make it a wallop of text. You can make it believable and sincere and really useful without making it a page-long paragraph of talk, talk, talk.

Monologues are for super villains and talk show hosts, remember.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 26, 2007

PeeDee said:
Monologues are for super villains and talk show hosts, remember.

Justly noted, my friend. Damnit, another f' ing rewrite ahead of me. Damn the classics that made me fall in love with literature in the first place. Today, they'd all find themselves in the piles of slush.

I really need to learn how to form some other emoticons. I know there's a thread here, I'm just too lazy.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 26, 2007

Any other "chimers" wanna...well...chime?

engmajor2005 · Mar 26, 2007

Chime.

RG570 · Mar 26, 2007

I have some telepathy in my current novel, and I opted to display it as normal dialogue. There wasn't enough of it in the book to warrant using italics, and I don't like using italics anyway.

Besides, to me italics are for internal thoughts. I see telepathy as still being dialogue.

scribbler1382 · Mar 26, 2007

Will (as usual...well, except for that freaky tab thing

) has it right. Dialogue is a conversation. A conversation involves the spoken word. Ergo, telepathy is not dialogue.

JBI · Mar 26, 2007

I disagree, read Wyndham's the Chrysalids. Telepathy can be written like that, though my interpretation of it was that it was the transferring of thoughts, rather than a non-verbal discussion. I guess I better go find some whacko twins and ask them.

RG570 · Mar 26, 2007

Ah, I would still take a telepathic conversation as...a conversation. I've always seen italics as used for internalized thoughts, which are not the same thoughts you communicate to others.

I guess it probably doesn't matter either way, but I just hate using italics unless it's necessary. It seems clunky to have a conversation between two people written that way.

scribbler1382 · Mar 26, 2007

RG570 said:
I guess it probably doesn't matter either way

True dat. Whatever you choose to do, just be sure to be consistent about it and all sunshine will emit from thine....er, I think I'll send the rest telepathically.

swvaughn · Mar 26, 2007

*sigh*

I have telepathy in my current novel. I establish from the beginning that italics = telepathy, and don't use quotes or dialogue tags at all... because there are also a few instances where the characters are just thinking to themselves, and not communicating. For these instances I use "she thought" and whatnot.

*sigh*

jdparadise · Mar 26, 2007

I use a slightly different convention for telepathy (garsh, we sure have a lot of telepathy-writers around here...):

:: And here we have the sky falling, and you just plucking feathers. There's got to be something useful you can do. ::

Chicken Little didn't like the way Brother Fox talked in his mind, but he was only a chicken. What say do chickens have? "What are you doing in my head? I asked nice that you leave me alone."

Alana Mortensen · Mar 26, 2007

Ok now, IMHO, italics works but I'd treat telepathic speech as you would non-mental speech. I have read some books that involve this and still to this day recommend resading and STUDYING Brian Lumley's Necroscope series. This series involves telekensis, "Deadspeak" (a form of telepathy), telepathy, and many other forms of mental abillities. BL gave characterization through the eyes of the person the telepath met then treated telepathic speech as normal speech........ but a few times empasized the telepathic dialogue so you knew it was private and/or mental.

For thelife of me I can not give any examples of that but think you have but to read horror novels to gain insight in the matter. Oh also Laurell K Hamilton deals with it too and her way of showingf the mental aspect is to pre-tag it, separate it with a few spaces or separate with a few spaces then afte-tag it or no tags at all. I suggest reading research on this issue and let me know the verdict.

bunnygirl · Mar 26, 2007

Remember that you don't have to have your character tell everything about the plot. You can probably sum up a lot of it. As writers, we need to know most of the details, but the reader doesn't need to know them all and would often prefer not to. Instead, try a combination of speech, summary and reactions of people who are listening.

Here's a quick example I threw together:

"Your currency will soon be worthless," he announced. He went on to explain that the government's switch to the Dolvian dollar threatened to turn into a cycle of ever-increasing inflation that would leave their economy in ruins.

A few people in the crowd exchanged skeptical looks. One woman, though, pulled a bill out of her pocket. "But it says right here, 'Good as Gold, Guaranteed.' Are you telling us the king is a liar?"

James D. Macdonald · Mar 26, 2007

If it's done well, you can do anything.

You can punctuate your dialog any way you please, so long as you do not confuse your readers.

Anthony Ravenscroft · Mar 26, 2007

Does your telepathy transfer in bursts of mutisensory gestalt, or is it just little squibs of language like a cockroach in your ear? Does it all arrive in a bunch, or is it pretty much the same as listening to someone talk & thus occuring about as quickly? Is there some limitation preventing "true duplex" communication, or is it all simplex? (That is, is it like talking on a telephone, or more like on a CB radio where you have to somehow signal when you're done & are handing the "talking stick" back?)

herdon · Mar 26, 2007

First, using italics for thoughts is definately not the standard.

As for telepathy, you can use italics or not. It's your choice, just make sure there is some sort of standard in your manuscript. In many cases, I think italics would be much easier and to the point.

I have one story where one of the characters can only communicate through telepathy and one of the other characters is the only one that can 'hear' her telepathy. When I am in the PoV of the character that hears the telepathy it is always in italics, and when I am in the PoV of the character that can only communicate through telepathy I use normal dialogue convention including "she says" when appropriate.

It works perfectly fine, but I could have very well done it differently had I so chosen.

scribbler1382 · Mar 26, 2007

Holy metaphor, Batman.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 27, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
If it's done well, you can do anything.

You can punctuate your dialog any way you please, so long as you do not confuse your readers.

Did anyone else catch the subtly understated use of italics here by BigMac? I don't know much about "Big Jim" -- other than he's pretty revered around here -- but this, my friends, is cleverness at its finest.

A couple of dialogue questions....

Laughing every time I choke.

Where's my tea, please...?

Everything is what it seems.

Laughing every time I choke.

Fixed on the future...

Where's my tea, please...?

Laughing every time I choke.

Laughing every time I choke.

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

adrift

Talker of Good Games

Token Rabbit

Your Genial Uncle

Scribble, scribble, scribble

What's up?

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

Laughing every time I choke.