Assistance to those who want to write romance

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TerriLynn

I guess I've become an advocate for romance since so many seem to catagorize romance as fluff or bodice rippers. However, there are so many ways to write romance that people often wonder, "why is this considered romance?"

If you want to learn anything about the romance market Go to: www.rwanational.org
I believe you can access the boards without having to be a member.


Terri
 

veingloree

To be honest I think genre romance is fairly fluffy -- but what is wrong with that? It is a genre designed to entertain just like sword and sorcery, westerns or thrillers.
 

TerriLynn

To be honest I think genre romance is fairly fluffy -- but what is wrong with that?

What's wrong is people also mistake it for very poor writing. Granted the overuse of adverbs in dialogue tags doesn't help matters. There is such a large selection of sub-genres getting a bad rap because of the lack of "education" about what a romance is.

Personally, I take offense at anyone thinking I'm a lazy, untalented writer because I write romance. And lets face it....most of the books out there have a form of romance in them but because of the stereotype, chose to name their books under a different genre...contemporary, thriller, literary...

okay....off my soapbox now.... :soap
 

veingloree

I think westerns were definitele 'men's romance' and thrillers are now in that niche. Most of the guys I say this too absolutely agree. I think people can be very condescending about any popular genre because they like to think of themselves as part of some uber-tasteful elite. Well :hail them them, eh? As long as it's the top selling genre they can bitch all they want :grin
 

Writing Again

Every genre I have ever written in has suffered from the attacks of more elite "literature."

Stephen King is looked down upon by some as "just another hack and slash" writer.

Every genre is looked down upon by some "literary" types, and is often looked down upon by writers of other genres.

Seems to me the more popular a genre is the more it is "looked down upon" by people with "good taste." In other words success breeds contempt.

I think living with this attitude is just part of being a writer.
 

MelindaNicole

The negative attitude towards romance genre writing bothers me, because people that say things like that have clearly never tried to get published by one of the NY publishing houses.

As a 'new' writer, it's not simply a case of knocking something up in a week, sending it off without even proofing it, and then receiving a cheque in the mail, the story accepted as it. I don't know what they think we're doing, but there are agents, rewriting, rejections, and craft issues to contend with.

Besides, I don't pretend that what I write ISN'T escapist fiction - just like sci fi, fantasy, western, and pretty much every genre bar literary. You want the real world, go watch the news.

:soap It's nice to meet another soapbox-carrying member of the romance fraternity. Thank you for letting me join the rant!
 

Stace001

I agree wholeheartedly! I've recently finished my first romance novel, and to be honest, it's a bloody good read!!!! (have to blow my own horn, cos i'm sitting in a room by myself:\ )
I've read sci-fi and comedy that has been absolutely attrocious. no plot, terrible sentence structure, and no concept of punctuation.
A writer is a writer no matter what genre they chose, and anyone who has the determination and courage to write an entire novel deserves the respect of her/his peers, whether it be romance or anything else.
 

Writing Again

Music and stories: So many people fall into the "If I don't like it it is trash," mindset. Then there is the "If most people like it it must be trash" group who believes they have better taste and judgment than "the public."

I have always written commercial fiction for entertainment: I use to get it bad from the "literary" writers.

I personally consider "literary" writing just another genre that happens to choose non commercial themes.

It is kind of sad so many people have nothing to give them a feeling of self worth except a pejorative opinion about what someone else is doing.
 

maestrowork

I think part of the problems with any genre (romance, mystery, etc.) is the formularic nature of it. There are actually "guidelines and rule books" for some of these genres. And that gives the impression (at least among the writing community) that these writers are lazy and unimaginative, that all they have to do is follow the guides, like "all you need to do is change the characters and put them in a different settings and voila, you have a new romance novel!) and that's why Nora Roberts can pump out 10 books a year. And the fact that some genre writers are making $millions further makes people think the writers have sold their souls.

They also gives off the impression that the readers of these genres are somehow "unsophisticated," meaning if someone would read the same "boy meets girl; girl hates boy; boy woos girl; boy loses girl; boy gets girl..." type stories over and over again, then somehow she's not very smart...

All of this is just stereotypes. They ghetorize a group of people (writers, readers) They fail to realize that these books are products, part of a business, and people buy them because they're entertaining. They're never meant to be high art. And the writers who write them not necessarily are bad writers. Actually many of them are very good. You still need to have good characters, good plot, good dialogue to pull it off. To make a story entertaining is not an easy task. And sometimes you have someone who venture into the "literary" side and you have something truly unique within the genre (for example, "Mystic River").
 

preyer

well, the 'this is crap' attitude doesn't necessarily always mean it's coming from a failed entertainer or some elitist swine. i think modern country music is crap. i'm neither a failed musician or elitist. the difference is i can back my opinion up. not that does or should change anyone's opinion, lol.

popular genres invite stagnation by sheer volume of works *and* artists. and there tends to be a repetitious nature of mystery and romance, in particular. i think fantasy had widened up a bit, but mostly due to perhaps the market demanding new avenues as opposed to the schlocky trilogy. i haven't read sci-fi in a long time, so i can't say what's going on there, but that tended to always be a more plot-driven story that had more avenues it could explore than just about any other genre, and the one you could combine elements of other genres in more easily, in theory, than any other.

romance seems to be the most formula driven genre, i'd say. one heroine doesn't seem to typically be especially different than the next. young and beautiful are the requisites, at least for the bodice-rippers, and generally it seems that any of them handle situations in pretty much the same way.

when i think of the term 'literature,' i think of books who have something to say. naturally, someone who thinks they have something to say is going to be elitist over pure escapist entertainment. there are simply not a lot of romance writers who aspire to 'literature.' the difference is romance writers understand that and are pretty cool with it, while some people think everything written has to be on parr with 'moby dick' or 'paradise lost.'

how can nora roberts bang out so many books? good question. she apparently sells enough to keep getting that check in the mail. though i've never read her, i know there are a few of her books on my wife's part of the big built-in bookshelf. you'd be right to question whether she writes to a formula. personally, i don't see how it's possible to write good novels that fast without help.

still, there can be as more if not more research involved in a romance than, say, a modern mystery.

the ability to write a novel never did impress me. someone writes a novel... big deal? who cares? all i care about is if it's any good or not. you know, i've known dozens of guitarists that could play anything you wanted to hear note for note. then ask them to play something original and they'd be like, 'huh?' same thing. so you write a novel because you like the genre, or worse, because it's your favourite type of movie and you think you can do that because you can 'see' the formula repeated endlessly. the 'i can do that' mentality sets in, but that doesn't mean you can compose a readable book. why would i be impressed that someone wasted a lot of their time writing a crappy book anymore than if someone rebuilt a space shuttle engine that doesn't run?

i'm just hard to please, lol. but, after you see the same thing over and over again, and being one for plots and such to begin with i pay attention to those things, why be impressed with yet another version of it? i'm impressed with quality, not in someone who's able to do the same thing i can do and recognize elements which seem to be continually bought. i think this is why romance has branched out in the last decade, offering more 'bridget jones' diaries'-type books and niche market fare. like fantasy, it has to.
 

maestrowork

You see more "romance" for men, too, such as Nicholas Sparks -- his publisher claims a high percentage of his readership is straight male.
 

champagnebooks

Romance is more formulaic because it is controlled by a few of the 'biggest' houses. They've found what works, what brings in the money, and dammit they aren't going to change it for anything!

If an author can find a publishing house that will let them be themselves, let their voices shine and their stories be told the way they want to tell them (within reason of course), you'd see far less formula and far more good quality reading. So what if it's a romance? There's more to a story than just the romantic end of it. There's drama, suspense and comedy. The romance is simply a common thread throughout the piece.

I too am sick of formulaic writing. I am tired of other people telling me what I want to read, and I'm tired of knowing the plot before I start to read the story. But there are millions of readers who enjoy those types of stories every day. It isn't difficult to see why romance is the top selling genre in North America.

Fluff? Sure. It's escapism. And damn good escapism, but then... I'm biased.

Ellen
 

Solatium

The glory of genre fiction is that it's written to be read. Some (I emphasize some) literary fiction either is over the head of the average educated reader, or tries very hard to be.

Recently my mother, a very learned woman, tried to read something by a "serious" writer whom she'd heard a great deal about. The next day she told me she couldn't get past the first chapter. "It's like the author never learned how to communicate."

She then picked up the Regency I'd just finished, and came back saying how refreshing it was to read something with likeable characters and nice clear prose.

Not to bash literary fiction, which boasts as many true geniuses as all the genres combined -- but there does seem to be a pretentious strain that feels threatened by the popularity and accessibility of genre fiction.
 

Susan Gable

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Not just fluffy

Not all romance novels are just fluffy. I write for a line called Superromance, and we have books that have very realistic characters, often dealing with some heavy issues.

I had one book that featured a hero whose daughter had had a heart transplant, and I paired him with a heroine whose only child had died, and she'd donated his organs. (No, they didn't find out that her kid had donated to his. <G>) Talk about a lot of conflict that they had to work out before they could actually have their HEA. (Happily Ever After.)

Last spring's book dealt with the question of what makes a parent a parent - DNA or love? I had a runaway surrogate mom who raised the child for 4 years before the father found them both again.

My next book features a hero who's having great difficulty relating to his teenage daughter - and just to make his life really interesting (he says miserable :eek: ) I knocked up his teenage daughter and the heroine at the same time. He finds out about his kid first, so when the heroine's pregnancy comes out, the teen gets to toss Dad's words back at him.

But what makes a romance a romance is that it focuses on the developing relationship between one man and one woman, and there is an up-lifting, positive - emotionally satisfying - ending. (That's the RWA definition.) That is really *all* there is to the romance "formula." (And actually, there are Gay romances, too.) Romances today come in all sorts of shapes/sizes, and that's something that many people don't know.

Romances tap into one of the deepest human needs, one we all share: the need to be loved. :LilLove:

Looking forward to some interesting discussions with all of you!

Susan G. :Fairydust:
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lindylou45

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I agree

Personally said:
It is aggrevating to have people think that simply because I have written a romance I'm probably not going to make it as a writer. I write romantic suspense/thrillers. Even though there is danger and the story line is different in some ways than a "true romance", the main theme is still romance.

That doesn't make me an untalented or lazy writer -- it makes me a romance writer.
 

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Romantic Suspense

>>>>It is aggrevating to have people think that simply because I have written a romance I'm probably not going to make it as a writer.

Ummm...do these people think elves write all the romance novels, in their various forms, that are on the market now? Not writers? :rolleyes:

Dazzle them with statistics: About 53% of all mass-market paperbacks sold are romance novels. More than HALF! I'd say that as a writer, that gives more publishing "chances" if you are writing romance.

It's also fact that the income the publishers make off of romance novels helps to support (or subsidize <G>) the publishing of some of the other books, the literary stuff, that don't have as wide a commercial appeal.

Romantic suspense is really hot right now, Lindy. Loads of publishers are looking for it. Good luck!

Susan G.
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JanaLanier

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Romantic suspense

I think that having a romantic element in the story makes it much more emotionally satisfying to the reader. So I find that I put romance into all my stories, and my most recent project was a straight out contemporary romance novel. And I loved writing it!!! (I just hope I can sell it :D ).
 

lindylou45

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Re: I agree

Susan Gable said:
>>>>It is aggrevating to have people think that simply because I have written a romance I'm probably not going to make it as a writer.

Ummm...do these people think elves write all the romance novels, in their various forms, that are on the market now? Not writers? :rolleyes:

Dazzle them with statistics: About 53% of all mass-market paperbacks sold are romance novels. More than HALF! I'd say that as a writer, that gives more publishing "chances" if you are writing romance.

It's also fact that the income the publishers make off of romance novels helps to support (or subsidize <G>) the publishing of some of the other books, the literary stuff, that don't have as wide a commercial appeal.

Romantic suspense is really hot right now, Lindy. Loads of publishers are looking for it. Good luck!

Susan G.
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Thanks for the statistics, Susan. I will be sure and use them in the future.

Thanks for the good luck too. I've submitted my first novel to Harlequin, but haven't heard back yet. :Thumbs:

Do the rest of you have agents or do you submit your work yourself?
 

Susan Gable

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Lindy, I don't have an agent. Writing for H/S, I really don't think *at this point* I need one. As you already know, H/S will look at unagented stuff. I don't want to pay someone 15% for what I can basically do myself. But I do know some category writers who have agents, and swear by having one, even for category romance. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. :Shrug:

I will say that the oft-repeated advice: "No agent is better than a bad agent" is true. I've heard some horror stories. So be very careful in an agent search.

Susan G.
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lindylou45

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Agents

Susan Gable said:
Lindy, I don't have an agent. Writing for H/S, I really don't think *at this point* I need one. As you already know, H/S will look at unagented stuff. I don't want to pay someone 15% for what I can basically do myself.

Susan,

I was thinking along the same lines. As long as I'm submitting to publishers who accept unagented mss, why pay out the money. Thanks for letting me know.

I looked at your website -- it's great. I've read Whose Child? and loved it. Congrats on a great career in writing. :Clap:

Linda
 

Susan Gable

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Working without an agent

Linda, just make sure that you really education yourself about contracts and such. I educated myself thoroughly before I got The Call from HQ, and I had pubbed contacts that I could ask questions. I was also "brave" enough to ask for contract concessions myself, and even though I didn't get everything I asked for (who does when you're negotiating? <G>) I still managed to get a most important one involving the options clause.

So, you need to know all about options clauses, and all the other clauses, what would be most beneficial to YOU (because this is business, after all, the publisher wants what's most beneficial to them, which makes sense).

Thanks for the kind words about the website and especially Whose Child? I'm glad you enjoyed it! :D

Jana, good luck with your ms! Is it a single title? Who are you targeting with it?

Susan G.
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The Pregnancy Test - Harlequin Superromance - July 2005
 

Coco82

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does this cover romance?

I'm writing a piece of Hollywood fiction that has romance involved, quite a bit in fact. Could this be considered romance?
 

Susan Gable

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What do you mean by "Hollywood fiction?" Razzle Dazzle like...oh, goodness, what's the author's name? - Jackie...something or other - writes? (I'm sorry, I'm horrible with names!)

If the romance is the main focus of the book, then it's a romance. Otherwise, it might be a mainstream with romantic elements or a romance subplot.

Susan G.
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Coco82

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Jackie Collins. I'm don't read her books, so I'm not sure if yu could compare them. It's about a director who among other habits is a ladies man /womanizer and the women he is with. other things happen too, but that's a large part.
 
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