Troubling patterns in police shootings of Black people

Roxxsmom · Jan 25, 2021

This is a problem that won't go away with the changing of the guard in Washington, not unless it remains a focus and priority of the Left.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/25/9561...narmed-black-people-reveal-troubling-patterns

Since 2015, police officers have fatally shot at least 135 unarmed Black men and women nationwide, an NPR investigation has found. NPR reviewed police, court and other records to examine the details of the cases. At least 75% of the officers were white. The latest one happened earlier this month in Killeen, Texas, when Patrick Warren, Sr., 52, was fatally shot by an officer responding to a mental health call.

For at least 15 of the officers, like McMahon, the shootings were not their first — or their last, NPR found. They have been involved in two — sometimes three or more — shootings, often deadly and without consequences.

Those who study deadly force by police say it's unusual for officers to be involved in any shootings.

"Many officers will go their entire career without shooting — sometimes without pulling their gun out at all," said Peter Scharf, a criminologist and professor in the School of Public Health at Louisiana State University and author of The Badge and the Bullet: Police Use of Deadly Force. "It's rare."

Many insist the problem is the result of a "few bad apples," since only a small percentage of officers ever shoot anyone. But as many have been pointing out, a system that keeps the bad apples in the barrel, or even goes out and recruits bad apples knowing full well they are rotting, is fatally flawed. The cops who shoot on the job often do so again. Cops who have been fired by one department are often hired by another. Cops with records of domestic violence and other serious crimes are often hired or kept in their jobs.

Whatever we want to call it, we need systematic, grounds-up police reform that goes beyond installing body cams (that always seem to "malfunction" at critical moments and simply swapping one chief for another who came up through the same system.

There is also a strong regional component to deadly police shootings, with over half occurring in southern states, and over a quarter have been in Texas, Georgia and Louisiana.

Still, NPR reviewed thousands of pages of job applications, personnel records, use of force reports, citizen complaints, court records, lawsuits, news releases, witness statements, and local and state police investigative reports to examine the backgrounds of the officers and analyze details of each shooting. We also interviewed use of force experts, criminologists, police, lawyers, prosecutors and relatives of victims.

Among NPR's other findings:

At least six officers had troubled pasts before being hired onto police departments, including drug use and domestic violence. One officer had been fired from another law enforcement agency and at least two others were forced out.
Several officers were convicted of crimes while on the force, such as battery, and resisting and obstructing, but kept their jobs. In one instance, officials in a tiny Louisiana parish repeatedly fired and rehired a deputy who got into trouble with the law: three times over 30 years, records show.
More than two dozen officers have racked up citizen complaints or use of force incidents. A Fort Lauderdale police officer had 82 reviews for use of force incidents but was never found in violation; a Vineland, N.J., officer had more than three dozen use of force incidents over a five-year period.
Several officers have violated their department policies and been cited for ethics violations, including a Hollywood, Fla., officer accused of trying to steer business to his company, and an Arizona state trooper accused of misuse of state property.

Nineteen of the officers involved in deadly shootings were rookies, with less than a year on the force. One was on the job for four hours; another for four days. More than a quarter of the killings occurred during traffic stops, and 24 of the dead — 18% — suffered from mental illness. The youngest person shot was a 15-year-old Balch Springs, Texas, high school freshman who played on the football team. The oldest was a 62-year-old man killed in his Los Angeles County home. Nearly 60% of the shootings occurred in the South, with more than a quarter in Texas, Georgia and Louisiana, NPR found.

I could go on, as there are more interesting bits of data in this report, but it's not behind a paywall, so I'll leave it here.

ConnorMuldowney · Jan 25, 2021

Thank you for continuing to discuss this topic. I'm glad Leftists like you haven't forgotten this is a huge issue. I've seen less and less discussion of police brutality as of late, though considering white supremacists stormed the Capitol recently, I understand why it wasn't in the spotlight. Still, it should be.

Like Michael Render said, "never forget in the story of Jesus the hero was killed by the state."

The police as an institution in the United States is more or less untouchable.

The police know we need them. And because of that, they get away with literal murder. Their unions don't operate the same way that, say, factory worker unions did back in the day. I'm no expert, but we need some powerful community watch parties that oversee the police. Not just body cameras, but something similar to police accountability organizations like The Coalition Against Police Abuse (CAPA). That runs into the issue of being grassroots, which will never be as well funded as a state power, but it's the only way I can think of operate outside of the state.

In my opinion, we need organizations that scare the police away from bad behavior, without actually using violence as a form of intimidation. Legal threats usually do the trick without actually being violent, but again, we run into the issue of police unions blocking legal efforts. I don't have a definite answer, just trying to figure it out.

And eliminate patrolling altogether. It serves no purpose. Firefighters don't patrol for fires. Doctors don't patrol for sick people. The police shouldn't patrol. Period.

Helix · Jan 25, 2021

Nearly every developed country in the world has a police force, even Norway (though they don't act like a militia the way ours do). We don't really have a model for an alternative form of keeping the peace.

Yes, you do. Have a police service, not a force. In other countries, police maintain order by consent of the people, a long-established principle.

2. To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect

3. To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws

4. To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.

ConnorMuldowney · Jan 25, 2021

Helix said:
Yes, you do. Have a police service, not a force. In other countries, police maintain order by consent of the people, a long-established principle.

Don't mistake me for someone who idolizes the cops. My signature says "defund the police" not "reform the police." I'm far beyond the point of believing that reform is enough. I'm saying I don't see an alternative to peace officers as an institution (though if there is one, I'd be very open to looking into it). I'd love it if the cops in the U.S. acted like they do in other countries. The question is how do we bully the U.S. police force into acting like other countries.

I'll reword my original statement so I don't get mistaken for one of those people chattering their teeth saying "but we neeeed cops" because I am far from that, I assure you.

Roxxsmom · Jan 25, 2021

I think some of our societal problems with policing stem from the ubiquity of guns in the US. Every cop knows anyone could be packing at any time, so it is probably inevitable there will be hair trigger responses that kill innocent, unarmed people. Police in Norway, or even the UK and France, simply don't have to be on the same level of high alert at all times. I image a constant awareness that anyone could kill anyone, including you, at any time and you are responsible for stopping this, would have a negative psychological effect on anyone.

Which one of many reasons why I am so vehemently opposed to arming teachers and college professors, but I digress.

It doesn't help that sometime during the Reagan years we decided that crime, including drugs, are something we should declare war on, which means militarization of the police was inevitable.

BUT, the gun issue alone doesn't explain why so many of the people accidentally shot are Black, or why so many police seem to be just fine with White Nationalist yahoos who carry their guns around publicly, even when they are waving them around during protests, or who turn out to be packing privately. It doesn't explain the different ways BLM vs Right Wing events are handled. And it really doesn't explain why they have to shoot someone 50 times or whatever, which not only seems excessive to stop someone who is a threat, but it seems like it would be endangering bystanders, to put it mildly.

And it doesn't explain situations like what happened with George Floyd, who was not armed and already handcuffed and saying he couldn't breathe, but the cop wouldn't get off his neck (and that cop's partners did nothing to interfere either). And there are so many other instances, such as with Sandra Bland, where a Black person was killed or died while already in custody and was clearly no threat at that point.

I know we've had people in these forums who are current or former police, and they often took exception to allegations of systematic racism in policing in particular. It is certainly true that other institutions in our society--medicine, education, businesses and so on--have their own versions of institutionalized racism. But police are the civilian professionals who are authorized to use lethal force in their day-to-day jobs, and people are utterly helpless when in police custody. So saying that police are (possibly) no more racist as a group than other professions isn't very comforting.

It also doesn't explain why there is a problem with White Nationalist infiltration of police departments (according to an FBI report from over ten years ago that only came to light recently). I haven't heard (yet) of K-12 education, academia, healthcare, businesses and other such groups of professionals suffering from this kind of infiltration, though it's chilling to think what this would mean if it did become an issue.

What are we going to do about this issue, and how are we going to (as a society) handle the free speech and association issue, where malignant racism (among other hateful views) has somehow come to be regarded as legitimate, even mainstream, political position now endorsed by one of our two major parties? Because I just know that as soon as a police department seeks to purge the White Nationalist elements from its ranks, there will be lawsuits.

Helix · Jan 25, 2021

Don't mistake me for someone who idolizes the cops. My signature says "defund the police" not "reform the police." I'm far beyond the point of believing that reform is enough. I'm saying I don't see an alternative to peace officers as an institution (though if there is one, I'd be very open to looking into it). I'd love it if the cops in the U.S. acted like they do in other countries. The question is how do we bully the U.S. police force into acting like other countries.

I'll reword my original statement so I don't get mistaken for one of those people chattering their teeth saying "but we neeeed cops" because I am far from that, I assure you.

Nothing you said made me think any of that. But your argument at the time -- before you changed your entire post -- was that other countries were all the same, so what can we do? But there are places where an alternative system has been in place for a long time, so it's obvious that there are models for reform.

ConnorMuldowney · Jan 25, 2021

Helix said:
Nothing you said made me think any of that. But your argument at the time -- before you changed your entire post -- was that other countries were all the same, so what can we do? But there are places where an alternative system has been in place for a long time, so it's obvious that there are models for reform.

I did not say "what can we do" and shrug my shoulders I was referring to the fact that every country has a police system. I never said they were all the same. The U.S. system is terrible, I'd love to have a system closer to the United Kingdom. I outlined programs I liked such as "CAPA."

I changed "my entire post" because it came off as too pro cop, something I am very much not. But even in my original post, I never said anything even remotely close to "every country has a police system so we should just shrug our shoulders and do nothing."

Here is the part of my post I deleted:

The police as an institution in the United States is more or less untouchable. In my personal fairytale world, I'd love to say just get rid of the institution, altogether but that's not happening in the real world. I write fantasy, but I'm not lost in it. Nearly every developed country in the world has a police force, even Norway (though they don't act like a militia the way ours do). We don't really have a model for an alternative form of keeping the peace. There's the CAHOOTS program of Oregon, but they only deal with crimes where armed intervention isn't necessary. Some crimes do require armed intervention. This creates a paradox, somewhat:

Nowhere did I say "every country has police, so we shouldn't bother reforming." You couldn't even squint at what I wrote and come away with that.

It's "Obvious" there are models for reform, but what can we do to GET there? I am willing to do work to get there, but I need tangible goals, not finger wagging that other countries have better systems. I KNOW other countries have better systems. I live in the U.S., and I assure you, it sucks.

If you think I believe we should just accept nothing will change, you couldn't be more wrong about me. I say we need to turn the heat up further, and scare the police more so they don't feel so cozy with brutality.

To sum it up, every country has police. That is a fact. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong. That doesn't mean I like the institution of the police, and it doesn't mean that I think every police system is the same. It certainly doesn't mean I think the U.S. system shouldn't be change. I never said that. I never would say that, because I don't believe it. Your interpretation of what I said is the most bad faith interpretation of what I said I could have possibly imagined. If I said every country has birds, would you assume I thought every single bird was exactly the same?

frimble3 · Jan 25, 2021

God knows the RCMP are no pack of saints, but, I would suggest that American police forces stop recruiting ex-military and wanna-be military personnel. Or at least limit their numbers.
Recruit people with 'people skills', or at least people who want to work with the public, not guns.
Teachers, lawyers, social worker and psychology majors. Start in colleges, etc. Point out that they could put their training to use for the public.
Also, referring to ConnorMuldowney's 'stop patrolling', I would go the other way - increase foot patrols. Not so much in rural and spread-out areas, where it would be impractical, but in urban areas, where people and businesses are thick on the ground, get officers out of cars and back to walking beats - they will actually see and meet the people they are supposed to be serving and protecting, rather than driving through, like an invading force.

ConnorMuldowney · Jan 25, 2021

frimble3 said:
Also, referring to ConnorMuldowney's 'stop patrolling', I would go the other way - increase foot patrols. Not so much in rural and spread-out areas, where it would be impractical, but in urban areas, where people and businesses are thick on the ground, get officers out of cars and back to walking beats - they will actually see and meet the people they are supposed to be serving and protecting, rather than driving through, like an invading force.

That's a great point. I never thought of it like that. A big problem with the U.S. police is rolling through in literal tanks. When I say that, Europeans often think I'm exaggerating.

lizmonster · Jan 25, 2021

The whole philosophy of policing in the US is based on intimidation. I'm not at all confident it's possible to fix the current framework. Right now we outsource everything from animal control to serial killers to the cops. Who's got that kind of skill set?

We also outsource our racism. It's so easy for us to point fingers at the horrific things the police are doing without taking any responsibility for our own part in perpetuating the white supremacist system we have. We can point and blame them, and absolve ourselves of anything. We can't be racist, you see. It's not like we're cops.

We need to think about what our communities genuinely need to be peaceful and safe. Some of it may overlap with what police forces are currently tasked with, but my guess is the vast majority of it won't. But recognizing that and making the changes are two vastly different things.

frimble3 · Jan 25, 2021

Yeah, I've seen pictures. SUVs, APCs, half-tracks etc. Another barrier for human contact provided by the arms dealers trying to get rid of their extra stock.

Compounded by the view from the front window looking like the screen of a first-person shooter.

Of course, civilians feel targeted. They are. Especially young black males. And when they watch the news, those feelings are reinforced.

There has to be massive changes in training in recruitment, and, I think, a lot more care taken with a new officer's first training officer. The guy who shows a new officer the ropes should be showing him the right attitude, as well as the right way to to do the job.

Or, just have more mounted officers. People like horsies, and, unlike dogs, they have no bad reputation. Tourists love'em, they have a good turn of speed, and give an officer a height advantage. While looking quaint and friendly. Use radios to call for backup, just like now.

ConnorMuldowney · Jan 25, 2021

Other than going to protests (which are valid, just not enough), does anyone have suggestions on what the average U.S. citizen can do to try to bring about change? Should we be joining cop watch programs? Fighting for legislation? And if so, what kind of legislation? I'd imagine we'd need to find a way to shrink the level of immunity that police unions grant, could that be achieved through lobbying for particular legislation? Do we need a mass strike, similar to what happened in India (though that wasn't specifically about the police)? Or is that too alienating or lofty?

In contrast to Helix's accusation of me shrugging my shoulders and adopting a "what can we do?" philosophy (which even in the unedited version of my original post was not what I was advocating for), I'd love to come up with some action plans.

frimble3 · Jan 25, 2021

When most people have the little phones these days, I think 'watching the cops' will just happen. It's what will be done with the footage. There would need to be a central place where people could log it, or at least store it for future use. (Keep anything the least bit dodgy, to show patterns over time.)
Or, full-on film crews. Sure, shows like 'Cops' are carefully edited, and the police only let their most reliable officers on it, and I'm sure the camerapeople and editors are aware of the risk of being black-balled - but there's nothing like an eager-beaver cameraman in the back seat to provide at least some accountability. Film school students, unite! (And rotate them frequently, so they don't get overly attached to 'their' officers.)
What you don't need is 'citizen patrols' ie vigilantes. I think the Trayvon Martin shooting shows what that leads to. It's a home for the guys so weird that even the police didn't want them
Legally, I don't know what you guys can do down there, over and above shining lights in the dark and crawly places.

Diana Hignutt · Jan 26, 2021

The problem is rooted in the relationship between White Supremacy and Conservatism, if we define Conservatism as:

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect...
...There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.
As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.
So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone....

https://www.bradford-delong.com/2018/12/frank-wilhoit-the-travesty-of-liberalism.html

Police are simply the enforcers of the in-group.

Roxxsmom · Jul 2, 2021

We need another agency to call when someone appears to be in some kind of crisis or is disturbing the peace in a non violent way. Police simply aren't trained to deal with mental health crises or people who are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or anyone who is behaving erratically or unable to comply with instructions, without resorting to force. As the old adage goes, everything looks like a nail to a person with a hammer.

We have had occasional situations in our neighborhood over the years where someone is behaving erratically, and I am very reluctant to call the police nowadays unless the person is clearly violent. I'm not one of those "Karens" (where did this term come from, and how do women whose name really is "Karen" feel about it?) who thinks any Black person in my neighborhood is up to No Good. I'd be busy if I were, because our neighborhood is fairly diverse. It's also pretty quiet for the most part.

It makes me think how many people of color are afraid to call the cops when they are victims of crimes or if they see someone in crisis. They know that even welfare checks can end very badly. So now some of us White people are starting to worry about the same thing. I don't ever want to be responsible for someone's death, or for their physical abuse, which is probably much more common and less likely to be reported.

I know we live in a country where anyone can be armed at any time, so everyone (even social service agents) need to be conscious of this. This is a situation that is fairly unique to the US, and there is currently no political will to change it. Even if there were, the current SCOTUS would likely overturn any gun control laws with teeth. But is it possible, at least, to have social service agencies on available to send counselors out to assess a situation with the police on standby in case things do turn violent? What would this cost dollar wise for communities?

Troubling patterns in police shootings of Black people

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

ConnorMuldowney

Helix

socially distancing

ConnorMuldowney

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

Helix

socially distancing

ConnorMuldowney

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

ConnorMuldowney

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

ConnorMuldowney

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido