Without a Shared Reality Can We Have a Shared Society?

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,322
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Albany, NY
Sorry, I don't have a link for this, just this question of whether shared society is possible without shared reality?

I don't think we will be able to get out of this nightmare, frankly. There is no common ground when one side calls the other side evil Satanist communists and has their own set of facts and truths. This fracture away from reality that the right wing has utilized to radicalize between a half and a third of the country does not look resolvable in the short term, and that might prevent there from being a long term.

I do not have a lot of hope. Maybe, some of you really clever folks can convince me I am looking at this wrong. Please do.
 
Last edited:

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,773
Reaction score
15,242
Location
Massachusetts
I wish I had some optimism to share, but I struggle with this too.
 

cbenoi1

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
5,038
Reaction score
977
Location
Canada
Sorry, I don't have a link for this {...}

I do.

Fox News has reportedly laid off at least 16 staffers.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox...lt-staffers-trump-ratings-porter-berry-2021-1

But insiders told The Daily Beast that the decision was likely politically motivated as the network, owned by the media tycoon Rupert Murdoch, moves from news coverage toward more right-wing opinion segments.
"There is a concerted effort to get rid of real journalists," one former staffer told the publication. "They laid capable people off who were actual journalists and not blind followers."

Reporting the facts? Out the door.

At some point Fox's advertisers need to grow a conscience and leave the network. If not, then maybe their customers need to send them a signal. Like this one:

Kohl's, Bed Bath & Beyond, and other companies' decision to end partnerships with MyPillow spell 'pain' for the controversial pillow brand
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kohls-bed-bath-beyond-other-144700747.html

"Lindell is being dropped right and left by legitimate retailers, not because he's friends with Trump, not because he's some victim, because he has a big mouth that has been spewing lies," Alleri said in an email to Insider. "No brand wants to associate with a dumpster fire like that. Advancing a false narrative of a stolen election has consequences."
These consequences could have a sizable impact on My Pillows business. Neil Saunders, managing director of analytics firm GlobalData, said sales through retail partnerships have become a "much more significant element of MyPillow's business.


-cb
 
Last edited:

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,322
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Albany, NY
Here's a wee dram of hope (and a link):


[FONT=&quot]How can this dynamic be reversed?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rebuilding a sense of shared reality among different segments of our society isn’t going to be easy, especially as it seems forces such as politicians and Russian trolls are working towards just the opposite goal. Also, deeply committed advocates and true believers from both sides are making it difficult for to rebuild that invaluable common ground that shared reality rests upon.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psychological research suggests that such an about-face would require a willingness to “unfreeze” our entrenched positions that demonize the opinions of others, and often are based on narrow interests of one’s tribe or class.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In a forthcoming book I’m co-authoring with colleagues, “Radicals’ Journey: German Neo-Nazis’ Voyage to the Fringe and Back,” we tell the story of an arson attack against a synagogue in the German city of Düsseldorf in 2000. The German chancellor at the time, Gerhard Schröder, issued a public call for a “rebellion of the decent.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It was a call to find a way to coalesce around common values and listen to each other’s concerns; to find forgiveness instead of rejoicing at each other’s misfortunes and mistakes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Schröder’s plea triggered one of the largest funding schemes for counter violent extremism programs on the federal, state and community levels across all of Germany. It mobilized the entire German nation to stand together against the forces of divisiveness.[/FONT]

https://theconversation.com/our-shared-reality-is-fraying-103065
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,751
Reaction score
24,799
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
I'm aware that we've all been through a collective trauma that's been unrelenting for years. Some of us have been going through that trauma longer, but I have to believe watching reality exposed so baldly and still seeing it defended makes things worse.

It's hard to be optimistic when you've been in survival mode for so long.

I'm not optimistic. I'm absolutely ****ing enraged. A *epublican is quoted in the press for any reason, and all I can think is YOU LET THIS HAPPEN. (There are a few exceptions to this, but not many.)

The MSM rehab-the-seditionists campaign is in full swing, and that also enrages me.

What enrages me more than anything, though, is that if the *epublicans had been just a little smarter and 25thed That Person back in 2017, we'd have had President Pence, who would have been more horrific in many ways, and so much more palatable to mainstream conservatives. He'd have lost less of the GOP vote, and if he'd managed to do anything about the pandemic (anything at all, given that That Person's administration did LITERALLY NOTHING), he might have won in 2020. We certainly wouldn't have seen all the tight congressional races go our way.

I'm so angry. I'm not sure what to do with it. Objectively, I think there's reason for optimism, but the people who got us here are still in government, and are spinning their sedition as conscientious conservatism. Frontal attacks on voting rights are appearing everywhere, and the *OP is saying flat out it's because it's the only way any of them will ever get elected again.

News flash: If you can't get elected by the popular vote in a democracy, maybe the problem isn't the voters.

As for trying to talk to folks on the other side, in hopes of popping the Fake News bubble? I do not have the strength. Anybody comes at me with "Well, you know, I am a little concerned about the reports of fraud in the election," all I want to do is scream "LIES IT'S LIES IT'S ****ING LIES AND YOU KNOW IT" which is admittedly not productive.
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,773
Reaction score
15,242
Location
Massachusetts
I think this article puts its finger on part of the solution, but I don’t have much optimism it’ll get done.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...an-ethics-trap-for-democrats-dont-fall-for-it

...

In between, President Trump – who served half as long as President Obama – hired more than four times as many lobbyists to serve in his administration. Yet Trump’s low standards didn’t remain newsworthy. Like Obama’s high standards, they were soon taken for granted by the press.

Now the tables have turned once again. The Biden Administration has unveiled the strictest ethics pledge in history, building on President Obama’s lobbying bans by covering not just registered lobbying but also the so-called “shadow lobbying” that long served as an ethics loophole. It’s another big step forward. But it’s also a reminder that Democrats and Republicans are on two entirely different trajectories. If past is prologue, Biden will face more criticism if he fails to perfectly implement his high standards than Trump faced for having practically no standards at all. And rather than feel any political or moral obligation to follow Biden’s example, the next Republican administration will pick up right where the last president of their party left off.

In other words, Democrats and Republicans are playing by different set of rules. And not just when it comes to ethics pledges and lobbying bans. We now know that many of the principles we once imagined were pillars of our democratic society – a respect for truth; a belief in the importance of a free press; the rejection of nepotism; a commitment to honor the results of elections not just in victory but in defeat – are propped up almost entirely by the good faith of politicians. And as we learned over the last four years, in American politics, bad faith is hardly in short supply.

That’s why it’s not enough to usher in an administration that models good behavior. We must ensure that we create high standards that apply to everyone.

That starts with changing political incentives that currently punish leaders who try to act responsibly and reward those who don’t. Some members of the press will surely be tempted to return to their own version of normalcy – one where Obama’s tan suit is a scandal, Joe Biden’s Peloton is a political liability, and it’s generally assumed that Republicans will behave like arsonists while Democrats behave like adults. Yes, the press should hold the Biden Administration accountable. But it would do the American public a disservice to pretend the last four years didn’t happen, or to take it for granted that most Republican politicians will behave like arsonists and most Democratic politicians will try to behave like adults.

Nor is it just the press – and other, similarly nonpartisan institutions – who should do more to prevent the emergence of double standards. Democrats currently control both houses of Congress. They should use that control to codify norms into laws. In past Congresses, for example, Senator Elizabeth Warren has put forward a bill that contains and expands on the provisions in the Obama and Biden ethics pledges. Similar bills could make it harder to oppose the certification of a fair and free election, use the justice department as a political weapon, or rely on corrupt dark money to finance campaigns. Most important, legislation can accomplish what relying on politicians’ good faith cannot – constraining the behavior not only of Democrats, but of Republicans as well.

...
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,751
Reaction score
24,799
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
Even in that article, the attempted violent overthrow of democracy is elided.

It hasn't even been three weeks.

"Let's get back to normal" is going to destroy us.
 

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,322
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Albany, NY
Even in that article, the attempted violent overthrow of democracy is elided.

It hasn't even been three weeks.

"Let's get back to normal" is going to destroy us.

Especially as normal is enabling of fascism and destruction of democracy, just a little bit slower.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,130
Reaction score
10,901
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Even in that article, the attempted violent overthrow of democracy is elided.

It hasn't even been three weeks.

"Let's get back to normal" is going to destroy us.

I agree, as is the tendency for people to "soothingly" murmur that "both sides" are to blame, or that "both sides distort facts," or that both sides "live in their own realities," or that "both sides have gotten more extreme." False equivalencies all. I see this a from people on social media (and occasionally someone tries it here), and they are either folks who secretly sympathize with the Trumpian world view and are trying to muddy the waters, or they are woefully ignorant about what is going on right now in America (and elsewhere). Yes, those folks still exist--people who are so adverse to conflict or so invested in their view of themselves as "neutral" or "fair minded" that they would insist that a battered spouse shares the blame for their partner's violence.

At what point does ignorance, even if it is not completely willful, become malicious in its own right?

Of course the Democrats have committed sins and have been guilty of spin and half truths, and even outright lies. But at this point in history, there is simply no comparison, imo.

There is a difference between telling lies sometimes versus everything coming out of your mouth being so paranoid, delusional, and so far removed from reality that you might as well live in a different universe. It's bad enough when it's a crazy relative or an old high school friend with whom you've re-connected only to discover they've gotten really weird. But when the people who are spewing this crap are in positions of power, it's extremely dangerous to democracy in general.

One "side" lives in a reality that acknowledges science and the existence of an objective reality, and the other side doesn't. One side lives in a reality where they at least acknowledge something that happened in front of their faces, where the other side is, metaphorically speaking, standing over a dead body with a knife in their hand and not only denying that they committed the murder but denying that there is a body or a knife at all, or heck, even denying the fact that the dead person ever existed in the first place.

If so many people can't acknowledge the nature of the problem, how can we fix it? If we insist on treating authoritarianism, even fascism, as normal on the continuum of political beliefs, or at worse as the equivalent of "extreme socialism," then we are indeed doomed.
 
Last edited: