2021-4 Storytelling - Pacing - Discussion Thread

InkFinger · Jan 15, 2021

No matter how right you get the scene or how perfect your dialogue or how rosy her lips, if you don't get the pacing right, your story will falter. Pacing is an essential part of telling a story. You want a story to flow easy like a lazy river or rushed like a raging torrent whichever fits your tale. The goal is to build the story. You want to dole out details and reveal characters in the most interesting way. That's what hooks 'em and keeps them coming back for more.

I was once told that a story should create a setting and then build tension until it feels like it's going to pop. Just when you feel like it can't get anymore, let just a little bit off and then start building again. Do this two or three times then... boom. For longer stories do the same thing, but keep whole cycles building up in the same way in relation to each other where plot points become bigger and bigger until you get a satisfying resolve for the story.

What do you think?

InkFinger · Jun 10, 2021

A quick note: this is especially critical for sex scenes. Just like the real thing, too fast is painful, too slow just isn't sexy. It's all about building desire and keeping it right on the edge of falling until you let your reader collapse in a heap.

Liz_V · Jun 12, 2021

Agreed that it's especially important for sex scenes. What is smokin' hot if built up to properly, is just plumbing if you don't get the lead-up.

Too_Many_Semicolons · Sep 19, 2021

I struggle with pacing in my erotic shorts. My instinct is write enough tantalizing buildup that the payoff is rewarding, but I always worry that my readers are going to be like "ugh this is boring, just get to the sex scene already!" Does anyone have any advice regarding what percentage of an erotic story should be buildup vs. the actual sex scene?

Unimportant · Sep 19, 2021

Too_Many_Semicolons said:
I struggle with pacing in my erotic shorts. My instinct is write enough tantalizing buildup that the payoff is rewarding, but I always worry that my readers are going to be like "ugh this is boring, just get to the sex scene already!" Does anyone have any advice regarding what percentage of an erotic story should be buildup vs. the actual sex scene?

It's highly dependent on the actual story, but honestly the best way to figure this out might be to pull up a few dozen erotica shorts that you've read and thought were truly excellent, and do proportional word/page counts for buildup vs sex.

Is this something you've had any feedback on from magazine/anthology editors you've submitted your stories to?

Too_Many_Semicolons · Sep 19, 2021

Unimportant said:
It's highly dependent on the actual story, but honestly the best way to figure this out might be to pull up a few dozen erotica shorts that you've read and thought were truly excellent, and do proportional word/page counts for buildup vs sex.

Is this something you've had any feedback on from magazine/anthology editors you've submitted your stories to?

Oooh, I really, really like the idea of analyzing erotica shorts that I think are truly excellent. I'm trying to break into the niche of erotica shorts that sell on Amazon, so I'm not sure how I would access other stories like that without paying. I'll have to do more research.

In regards to your question about feedback, I've never submitted an erotic short to a magazine or anthology. Is that something that is recommended when trying to break into erotica writing as a career?

InkFinger · Sep 19, 2021

@Too_Many_Semicolons don't think of sex scenes as sex scenes, think of them as action sequences. You build up the same way. Pacing is down to the story and style, but you need to lay the ground work. Sometimes that can be pretty short. Writing a hookup with a prostitute can be pretty quick because there's no mystery about what's going to happen, it happens in the execution. Conversely, seducing your boss's wife might need some lead up. And then, of course, the core of most sex scenes are how they fit into the broader story and character development.

Sex scenes, like all scenes, need a purpose for being.

InkFinger · Sep 19, 2021

Too_Many_Semicolons said:
Oooh, I really, really like the idea of analyzing erotica shorts that I think are truly excellent. I'm trying to break into the niche of erotica shorts that sell on Amazon, so I'm not sure how I would access other stories like that without paying. I'll have to do more research.

In regards to your question about feedback, I've never submitted an erotic short to a magazine or anthology. Is that something that is recommended when trying to break into erotica writing as a career?

Ask the Admin for access to the E-SYW section, if you are of age. We run a practice thread there, and pacing was one of the threads.
If you plan to publish, getting your work in front of editors is always important.

Unimportant · Sep 19, 2021

Too_Many_Semicolons said:
Oooh, I really, really like the idea of analyzing erotica shorts that I think are truly excellent. I'm trying to break into the niche of erotica shorts that sell on Amazon, so I'm not sure how I would access other stories like that without paying. I'll have to do more research.

In regards to your question about feedback, I've never submitted an erotic short to a magazine or anthology. Is that something that is recommended when trying to break into erotica writing as a career?

I'm pretty sold on the idea that one needs to read widely in the genre in which one writes/wants to sell. Whilst I doubt there's any way to access the Amazon shorts for free, I'm guessing you could find some erotica anthologies in your local library to use for your research. Alternatively, in the erotica Share Your Work, there may be a backlog of stories you can look at and then do an analysis on the ones you think are the best.

I've never tried to self publish and sell on Amazon; I wouldn't have the knowledge or skills to do the editorial work, layout, or cover art. So I've only ever published in magazines/anthologies. That way the experts do the bits I can't, and in addition an acceptance/rejection/rejection with comments lets me know if the story is any good/worth revising. If it's feasible for you to do this as part of your game strategy, I reckon it won't hurt. And getting a few stories in front of readers who buy anthologies might get you some name recognition with those readers.

There used to be heaps of calls for submissions for erotica anthologies, but I have to admit I haven't looked into it for a decade so I don't know if it's still a thing or not.

Editors I'd recommend as really knowing their stuff (assuming they're still active) off the top of my head are Rachel Kramer Bussel, Cecilia Tan, Sacchi Green, and Steve Berman. Cleis Press routinely publishes really excellent stuff.

ElaineA · Sep 20, 2021

I think the balance of build-up to action is also dependent on reader expectations. There are places people go to read for the sole purpose of stimulation, and there are places where the audience expects a more literary approach. And there are places you can find both. It also matters who the audience is. Are you writing gay erotica, lesbian, het? Romantic? BDSM-focused? That can shift the balance some, too.

It's nearly impossible to predict what will or won't sell on Amazon these days because they dungeon most of the erotica content. People who read it know how to find it, but for a non-connoisseur, it's really hard to hunt it up, even when you go looking. (I had hopes of SPing a few of my shorts, but the market for them has really changed, both because of Amazon, and the SESTA/FOSTA rules potentially punishing sites that host sexual content.)

I've published two of my more literary erotic stories at Bellesa.co. Their mission is woman-focused, but the stories run the gamut of pairings and style. They've instituted a pay structure on the site, but their stories (the link above is to that subsection of the site) are still free to read.

Rachel Kramer Bussel's Cleis anthologies are definitely available in libraries in the US, though assume not all libraries. If the budget allows, it could be worth acquiring a used copy of one of her Best Women's Erotica anthos, simply because there are so many stories per volume to examine.

And for study, I've found the stories of Madeleine Morris (Remittance Girl) to be useful. She isn't publishing anything new in fiction, and hasn't for a long time, so it may not be up to current "what sells" standards. But for examining pacing and form, they're still valuable, and available to read for free.

Unimportant · Sep 20, 2021

InkFinger said:
@Too_Many_Semicolons don't think of sex scenes as sex scenes, think of them as action sequences. You build up the same way. Pacing is down to the story and style, but you need to lay the ground work. Sometimes that can be pretty short. Writing a hookup with a prostitute can be pretty quick because there's no mystery about what's going to happen, it happens in the execution. Conversely, seducing your boss's wife might need some lead up. And then, of course, the core of most sex scenes are how they fit into the broader story and character development.

Sex scenes, like all scenes, need a purpose for being.

Exactly!

This is from a chapter on writing sex scenes by Sacchi Green:

"It’s a huge mistake to think of a sex scene as a single obligatory lump of action inserted into your story with no relevance to the rest.... When it comes to building toward sex scenes, foreshadowing is like foreplay. It’s not going to be convincing for your characters to leap suddenly into a passionate clinch without ever having given hints, in thought or deed, of a growing sexual attraction. Even if your plot involves repression or denial, you need to find subtle ways of showing that something is simmering under the surface."

"I’ve edited or co-edited four anthologies, with two more in the works, and I’ve never consciously established any kind of quota for sexual content. Well, if it’s an erotica anthology, there should be sexual tension, and someone, at some point, should reach orgasm, but I’ve never tried to quantify any of it. An involving story, interesting characters and setting, and any other creative quality that makes a story stand out from a sea of same-old-same-old pieces does it for me more than a specific percentage of pages involving explicit sex. Sex has to be a significant part of the story, but it needs to have a good story around it, and I especially like it when even the sex is about more than sex."

Unimportant · Sep 20, 2021

ElaineA said:
It's nearly impossible to predict what will or won't sell on Amazon these days because they dungeon most of the erotica content. People who read it know how to find it, but for a non-connoisseur, it's really hard to hunt it up, even when you go looking.

I totally did not know that!

2021-4 Storytelling - Pacing - Discussion Thread

InkFinger

InkFinger

Liz_V

Not my first rodeo.

Too_Many_Semicolons

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Too_Many_Semicolons

InkFinger

InkFinger

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.