Facebook is a Doomsday Machine

mccardey

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Oh yeah I'm definitely not willing to make the effort. I only have so much energy in the day, and until Twitter invents a 'no dipshits' button, I'm curating my follower list by preemptively banning everyone from it. :tongue And while I can see the intellectual value in reading stuff by people you disagree with, maybe, I've found it just causes me angst. It's enough to know there are TERFs, flat-earthers, Nazis and anti vaxxers out there. Actually reading their shit does my nana in. Some of you might have more fortitude.
Oh - I was actually more thinking along the lines of conservative voters.... ;)
 

Albedo

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Oh - I was actually more thinking along the lines of conservative voters.... ;)
We're gunna have to be careful with you, mccardey. Gazing in to the abyss, etc. One day you're going to wake up and find yourself thinking 'hey, whole language reading really IS a Marxist conspiracy to turn our letters trans.'
 

mccardey

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We're gunna have to be careful with you, mccardey. Gazing in to the abyss, etc. One day you're going to wake up and find yourself thinking 'hey, whole language reading really IS a Marxist conspiracy to turn our letters trans.'

Talking of which, derail/

Did you see the opinion piece the other day (by Anonymous, who I have to say is getting around more and more these days) about the health system making transitioning too easy for kids? Anon has a kid, who is hoping to transition, and despite writing in a tone of Complete Acceptance But Slight Concern And Only Because I Love You, Anon managed to misgender said kid in the very first sentence and throughout the rest of the article.

/derail.

It's not really a derail though, because if I hadn't read the article, I would have been less aware that kids are still having to deal with this sort of thing, under the guise of Parental Concern. Which must be, finally, more confusing and more destructive even than pearl-clutching is.
 
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Roxxsmom

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Concern trolling has been a thing since long before the internet, even if they didn't call it that back then. Funny how so many "well-meaning" friends and family members insist they are truly, honestly concerned for the recipient of their concern when they are really concerned about themselves.
 

mccardey

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Concern trolling has been a thing since long before the internet, even if they didn't call it that back then. Funny how so many "well-meaning" friends and family members insist they are truly, honestly concerned for the recipient of their concern when they are really concerned about themselves.

Yes, but my point is that if we only live in our own echo-chamber (and no, I'm not meaning to move into the insane areas - just reading-across-the-political-aisle so to speak) we miss the issues that exist just under the surface.

Also, it's just interesting. I find people terrifically interesting.
 

lizmonster

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Yes, but my point is that if we only live in our own echo-chamber (and no, I'm not meaning to move into the insane areas - just reading-across-the-political-aisle so to speak) we miss the issues that exist just under the surface.

The thing is, in the US, "across the aisle" is largely extremist at this point, and places like Facebook exploit that.
 

mccardey

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I don't know, maybe I'm talking at odds with everyone. Anyway...
 

Roxxsmom

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I don't know, maybe I'm talking at odds with everyone. Anyway...

No, you're not.

We're just in a weird situation now where most of the folks professing extremely "conservative" views (as stated elsewhere, these views have little to do with what was once called conservatism) on social media these days aren't interested in learning or being convinced of anything. They are concern trolling, or trying to play "gotcha" with the "libs," or doing the old post and run thing in an attempt to leave chaos in their wake. When one attempts to answer their question, or points out that a given conspiracy theory is thoroughly debunked, they either ignore it or dig in deeper, often becoming increasingly vitriolic and personal, or simply arguing that your source, no matter how reputable, is part of the conspiracy too.

I think this is an issue everywhere, but it's especially bad here. When I engage, I have to remind myself that it's not for the sake of the person doing the trolling, but for people not yet in their clutches, or for people who thought they were alone in rejecting said conspiracy theory.

Anyway, there are still plenty of ways to connect on social media for reasons other than political (like sharing pictures of puppies from the same litter as they mature and so on), but things can get difficult when worlds collide, so to speak. In my case it involves things like finding the nice gal I got my puppy from is, in spite of her embracing scientific and rational dog training and puppy socialization protocols, is off the deep end with respect to Trumpism and denial that he has A. Lost the election, and B. Isn't likely to have a last minute "Hail Mary" save that will hand him another term after all. Things like that, and I just don't know where to go with all of this.
 
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lizmonster

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You're not at odds mccardey. There are a lot of "conservatives" in the Democratic party - we just elected one. Obama was far too right-wing for my taste, but I fundamentally agreed with him (in the large, at least) on what kinds of changes we should be working toward in this country.

Conservatives I can talk to, and listen to. Republicans? Not anymore. I'm not sure if they've changed, or if they were always like this but took the time to hide it. When someone takes the position that certain people shouldn't have fundamental human rights, I'm not inclined to spend much time considering their perspective.
 

mccardey

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You're not at odds mccardey. There are a lot of "conservatives" in the Democratic party - we just elected one. Obama was far too right-wing for my taste, but I fundamentally agreed with him (in the large, at least) on what kinds of changes we should be working toward in this country.

Conservatives I can talk to, and listen to.
Yes, I'm not talking about trying to understand Trump-Republicans. I'm using 'conservative' in the sense that we use it down here to talk about our right-wing party (which, just to confuse things, is called the Liberal Party.)

The non-Labor, not-Greens party.

I would probably draw the line, down here, at One Nation.
 

Albedo

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Talking of which, derail/

Did you see the opinion piece the other day (by Anonymous, who I have to say is getting around more and more these days) about the health system making transitioning too easy for kids? Anon has a kid, who is hoping to transition, and despite writing in a tone of Complete Acceptance But Slight Concern And Only Because I Love You, Anon managed to misgender said kid in the very first sentence and throughout the rest of the article.

/derail.

It's not really a derail though, because if I hadn't read the article, I would have been less aware that kids are still having to deal with this sort of thing, under the guise of Parental Concern. Which must be, finally, more confusing and more destructive even than pearl-clutching is.
I saw it. Didn't read it, but people I trust did, and I heard it was terfy as. I'm sure The Age did their due diligence in making sure the 'anonymous parent' was a real person and not someone just pretending to be to get their ideas into the mainstream. I'm sure.

There was a followup in the Australian, apparently, by Claire Lehman. Yeah, the alt-right doyenne of the Intellectual Dork Web is now a columnist in our national broadsheet. Because the Australian media has now decided (amongst its two owners) that they're doing the 'gender critical' thing. I suppose cos it's worked a dream in the UK, and now they're testing the waters, seeing if they can make Australia the next battleground in the war on transgender children. Fuckin' hell.
 

Roxxsmom

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Yes, I'm not talking about trying to understand Trump-Republicans. I'm using 'conservative' in the sense that we use it down here to talk about our right-wing party (which, just to confuse things, is called the Liberal Party.)

The non-Labor, not-Greens party.

I would probably draw the line, down here, at One Nation.

I've often wondered why this is. I am guessing it is a holdover from the days when "liberal" meant free trade and unregulated markets and all that?

Lizmonster is right. The Republicans are not really conservatives anymore, they are an unholy blend of reactionaries, authoritarians, theocrats, libertarians, anarchists, white nationalists, old-style industrialists, and other odd groups that shouldn't even be compatible but somehow are right now. All these formerly fringe groups have found a home within the party, and folks who used to be more moderate Republicans are either independents or Democrats now.

The problem is, thanks to the electoral college and the disproportionate weight low-population states have in Congress, the GOP can still win elections with just their most extreme base, while Democrats must get the centrists, even moderate conservatives, on their side to win (as well as having excellent voter turnout among their base, which is often turned off by the party's accommodations of those moderate and slightly conservative voters). Therefore, the popular perception of what actually is "liberal" vs "conservative" has shifted, even within the Democratic party.

What's disturbing is how many Americans have associated themselves with these fringe movements in recent decades. There are lots of hypotheses why, and none really explain the phenomenon on their own or are consistent with every subgroup within the GOP. But I suspect the common thread is that fear of losing control of one's traditional social power as society becomes more and more diverse and pluralistic, and those decades of trickle-down economics that have gutted the middle class and stymied upward mobility. Plus there's the increasing redundancy of more and more workers and the gutting of the labor movement in the US in a society where people tend to derive identity and self esteem from their profession and economic status.

Add court decisions like Citizens United, which equated money with speech and determined that corporations should have all the political and personal rights (but none of the accountability) of citizens--and of course the internet and social media making it easier to spread conspiracy theories and the politics of grievance--to the brew, and we have a democracy-threatening disaster.
 
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jpoelma13

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I rarely use facebook and Twitter. I use to receive announcements from my larp, to keep in touch with family. I also used it to keep in touch with a person or two I cared about via messenger. I don't feel that these were bad experiences.
 

Introversion

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Facebook COO downplayed company's role in the insurrection; reports show otherwise

Ars Technica said:
Update, 1/14: A trio of new reports make clear that contrary to Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg's position, individuals were using Facebook to plan violence before last week's insurrection at the US Capitol—and that users are still doing so today.

The New York Times today published a report looking at individuals, including at least one who attended the January 6 rally at the Capitol, who were radicalized specifically on Facebook and Instagram. Simply put, many users whose earlier content tended toward the bland and anodyne saw massive spikes in engagement—way more likes and comments—from other users when they began sharing conspiracy theories alleging the 2020 election was "stolen" or other Qanon-style content.

Many users "transformed seemingly overnight," according to the NYT review. "A decade ago, their online personas looked nothing like their presences today. A journey through their feeds offers a glimpse of how Facebook rewards exaggerations and lies."

Data scientists and executives inside the company were aware that violence was proliferating on Facebook and Instagram before and during the events of January 6, according to the Wall Street Journal. Reports of violent content on the platforms that afternoon "jumped more than 10-fold from the morning," according to internal documents WSJ reporters reviewed.

During the chaotic afternoon, the WSJ reports, Facebook Chief Technology Officer Mike Schroepfer urged employees to "hang in there," while the company worked out how "to allow for peaceful discussion and organizing but not calls for violence."

Some employees, however, were unmoved by this plea for patience. "All due respect, but haven’t we had enough time to figure out how to manage discourse without enabling violence?" one reportedly responded. "We’ve been fueling this fire for a long time and we shouldn’t be surprised that it’s now out of control."

Violent rhetoric on Facebook remains a major problem today, Reuters reports, with threats against the upcoming inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden proliferating.

A Facebook spokesperson, who asked not to be named for "security reasons," told Reuters that the insurrection at the Capitol appeared to be a "galvanizing event," and efforts on Facebook to bring Trump supporters back to Washington, DC, next week are now widespread. "Signals Facebook tracked included digital flyers promoting the events, some of them featuring calls to arms or the insignia of militias or hate groups," Reuters reports.

...

The likely outcome of Trumpism is less free speech online. Trumpist behaviors online will demand tighter, on-going moderation from the likes of Facebook et al, which will likely serve to increase their claims of anti-“conservative” biases?
 

Roxxsmom

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The CEO of Twitter is hand wringing about how he knows banning Trump was the right thing, but he worries it is going to cause more issues down the line with free speech and abuse of bans to marginalize people who have legitimate civil rights concerns.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/14/956664893/twitter-ceo-tweets-about-banning-trump-from-site

He still seems to think those 90s-era hopes about the free, unfettered WWW as a rich source of cultural exchange are possible. News flash, when you give people access to largely uncontrolled platforms, a small percentage of assholes can sockpuppet, troll, threaten, and sealion a much larger number of folks who are trying to have a civil conversation or debate about something.

And so groups start moderating their platforms and adopt site policies and reserve the right to ban people who violate them. And yes, those rules are inevitably applied inconsistently or unfairly.



And as it turns out, EVERYTHING can be politicized by someone, even inherently non-political topics like dog training.