Covid 19: Coronavirus November 2020

Roxxsmom

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Well, just spoke to my mom, and she's trying to decide whether or not to get together with my brother and his family for T day. The problem is he's also invited my mom's sister in law and two of our cousins (plus the husband of the one who is married) as well as my brother, sister in law and their three teenage daughters, one of who is home from college, one of whom plays sports, and one of whom has a boyfriend on the football team.

Since it's in southern CA, they should at least be able to eat outside and spread out and supposedly will all be masked except when eating. But there will be exactly ten people. According to this risk calculator for their county (Riverside), this is about an 12% chance someone there will have Covid. My mom is one of those people who could easily die if she gets it.

It's her call, of course. She's an adult. But I'm kind of frustrated my bro is having a get together at all, let alone is also inviting four extra people from two different households to join them as well. I hope this doesn't mean I get the guilt treatment (from him) for not coming down at Christmas. I suspect Covid is going to be raging here by then. My MD says they still don't have a lot of cases where she practices (A KP in Sacramento), but the numbers are increasing.

My husband hasn't made any inroads with his dad and step mom, who will be getting together for a weekend rental with one of their daughters and her family, as well as a couple of friends of hers. They live in Oregon, where it is unlikely they can eat outside, and anyway, if they are staying in the same house for several days, minimizing contact will be nearly impossible. According to my husband's sister, these friends of hers have "already had covid," but there are a lot of folks walking around convinced they've had it who probably haven't.

And to be clear, no one in either of our families are covid deniers or people who are typically flagrant risk takers. If I weren't so close to these situations, it would be "interesting" how people rationalize away the not-so-clever choices they make.

And the thing that seems especially crazy to me about taking these risks now is that there may be light at the end of the tunnel. If these vaccines become generally available in Spring and are as effective as the early data suggest, a summer visit to family may be in the cards.
 
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JJ Litke

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In (virtual) class this past week, I brought up Thanksgiving, and one student after another said they’re going to visit family, until all of them admitted it. All of these stupid motherfuckers are going to family gatherings. That was when I realized I’m one of the only people I know who doesn’t plan to endanger myself or elderly family members for the sake of a single, gluttonous dinner.

So tomorrow I’m going to give a lecture about what to do when you get COVID. I’ll throw in something about my uncle who’s about to be intubated if the CPAP therapy doesn’t work (spoiler, I don’t think it will). He got remdesivir and antibody treatment, and it didn’t work. At least he finally got a room, apparently the hospital was so full that for a while he was lined up in a hallway along with a lot of other COVID patients. My aunt can’t go see him, so he’s alone in the hospital, and she’s alone at home in quarantine. My daughter just got engaged, and her fiancé’s family have COVID ripping through their family, his grandfather died last night. I haven’t even got to meet his family yet.

Anyway, I’m going to tell this to my classes tomorrow and be the person who tells them it’s okay to not go. Because I got the impression last week that a lot of them kind of think they have to because their families expect it. I’m pretty sure most of them won’t listen.
 

MaryMumsy

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JJ, my hubby and I *are* the elderly family members. We are staying home (no guests) and having turkey red chile burros and refried beans. For over forty years I hosted Thanksgiving. Five of us the first year, and 32 in 2018. I keep thinking of my checklists and timetables. It's hard. I hope all my relatives stay home and don't go to some in-laws house instead.

Brava for being an adult.

MM
 

frimble3

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Good for you, JJ! Give it to them straight. Sure, some of them miss their families and will use any excuse to go home, but a lot of them are looking for someone to tell them it's okay not to go. Not to risk themselves, not to risk their families.
And, perhaps point out to them, depending on the group, that by not going home, they are actually rallying in solidarity with those people who can't go home to their families: the health workers, the sick, the cops and firemen.The people who fly the planes and drive the buses and trains. Heck, the troops overseas. It's not like everyone is going home for Christmas, and your poor students are stuck at school.:cry:It's not that scene from 'A Christmas Carol'.

Also, point out to them that the purest gluttony is 'one person, one fork, one turkey'. Yes, with no-one to watch, they can eat anything they want for dinner.
 

Alpha Echo

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I'm really torn. Every Thanksgiving, I take the kid to my in-laws. My husband stopped attending large family gatherings long ago (long story), so he won't be going regardless. I want to go so that the kid can hang out with her cousins - they're all getting older, and opportunities to be together are becoming more and more rare.

But weather is only supposed to be a high of 67 which would be okay if it weren't supposed to be rainy as well. So we'll be inside. I'm pretty confident the family that will be there is mostly isolated, but because my husband is NOT, the kid and I are exposed to whatever he is exposed to during his work days. He takes precautions and wears his mask, but still. We're probably the worst risk to the rest of the family.

But then again, we just spent the weekend with my in-laws down on their Bay property. If we don't attend Thanksgiving dinner, I know they'll wonder why it was okay to visit over the weekend but not okay to visit for the holiday. Not to mention, the kid is having enough of a challenge during all this, what with online learning and lack of social activities. I hate to disallow her to spend a couple hours with her cousins. She's been looking forward to the social interaction for months.

IDK. I guess I'm just going to watch the numbers and play it be ear. My husband encouraged me to do what I think is best and to not allow the unspoken pressure from family to influence my decision. But that's a hard thing to do.
 

lizmonster

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I'm fortunate in that my parents understand why we can't get together.

I'm unfortunate in that they both have dementia, and I have to explain again nearly every time I talk to them.

This will be the first Christmas in my life we won't all be together. But I talk to them about all the vaccine news coming out, and about the big party we'll have when it's safe again.

I'm much more worried about the staff at the place they're living. Those people are already stuck having to work; they can't isolate themselves entirely. But their "bubbles" include my parents, and over the holidays that's making me very nervous. They test the staff regularly, and monitor the residents; that's helped, but I don't see how they'll avoid some kind of a bump over the holidays.
 

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I’m planning to have a video call Thanksgiving with my adult daughter and son. My parents live in the same town, and we’re not gathering with them either — I’ll stop by their house the day before, to have a masked “hello” in their driveway. I’m grateful that my family is all in agreement on this.

I can’t really understand people who are choosing to risk having a big meal together this year. It’s not safe.
 
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MaeZe

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That's awful JJ. I'm sorry to hear about your uncle. And the daughter's fiancé's family, it has reached the point where people are starting to all know someone personally that had or does have this virus.

I think your lesson plan is one of the most important ones your students are likely to have.


I don't know what to tell you Alpha. It's been nine months, I'm sure it's rough on kids not seeing friends for that long. But it's only a few more months until the vaccine will begin to end the whole thing except for small clusters that can be managed with contact tracing. I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
 

Alpha Echo

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Well, I called it. Told my MIL today that we won't be there for Thanksgiving. She is NOT happy. She actually suggested that our daughter and I quarantine away from my husband for 2 weeks in order to come. Now...I respect my MIL a lot. I don't know that I love her, but I respect her. I have a good time when we visit, I love seeing the kids all together, I am not happy about this. But I'm not going to isolate myself from my husband for two weeks during Christmas time. I'm just not, and I can't believe she really thinks I ever would. I'd rather be with my husband than anyone else in the world. Quarantine has only brought us closer. It just frustrates me how nervous I was to do the right thing and protect the rest of our family from whatever my husband may bring home to us.
 

MaeZe

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[Pats Alpha on the back]

Good! Now you can relax. Don't entertain guilt. What would have happened if during that two weeks you or your child got sick? Add more weeks to the isolation? No, wouldn't work.

You did the right thing.

Around here they had to tell people to quit getting 'clearance' COVID tests so they could go to holiday dinners. There was not the capacity to test everyone given all the people who need testing because we are having a serious spike in cases locally.

There are spikes in cases all over the country and frequent public service announcements not to go to holiday dinners or find alternatives like eating outdoors where it is possible.

I am entertaining a walk in the park with my son and DIL. He wants to come by.
 

Alpha Echo

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Thank you. It wasn't easy. I don't like that she put a guilt-trip on me. But it was the right thing to do.

Your plans sound peaceful. Enjoy. <3
 

JJ Litke

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Omg, Liz, it’s the same with my mom—she gets why, but we’ve had the same conversation four or five times now about not doing Thanksgiving together. She’s still living on her own, in a retirement community, but I worry about her. Part of the thing that made her community great was the social aspect, and of course that’s almost entirely gone right now.

Alpha, hopefully your MIL comes around. Seriously, if you’d decided to not go for any number of smaller reasons, it’s still your right to make that call. Besides, the calendar doesn’t need to dictate all our interactions—if vaccines become available over the next couple months, it’ll be a lot safer and less stressful to have get-togethers then.
 

Roxxsmom

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I think it's especially hard for a lot of younger people who don't live at home when their parents put a lot of pressure on them to come home. Even us older farts are feeling guilt and frustration when relatives pressure us and we say no. Many college students are still dependent on their parents financially, and even if they aren't, they are not far removed from a time when their parents were the ones who called the shots and knew what was sensible and what wasn't.

It's good, JJ Litke, that you are telling them it's okay not to go. Some people probably do feel like they need permission or support in a decision to stay away. Most of my students live at home, or at least in the communities where they grew up, so their families are close by. I suspect most have been seeing their parents regularly during this crisis, so the holidays won't be all that different.

I know my oldest niece was planning on staying up at college and doing T-day with her boyfriend, but he dumped her just a couple of weeks ago, so now she's coming home. I feel for her, I really do. There's something about the holidays that leads young people to dump one another (I had so many friends in college who were dumped right before). But I do worry she could be bringing the virus home to the rest of her family, and to the others (including, possibly, our mom) my brother and SIL are having over on Thanksgiving.

HE IS AN MD, FFS! he should know better. We've talked about it, and he's already played the "This could be mom's last holiday season anyway" angle, along with the, "We are being careful as we can. As an oncologist, my patients are always at risk of catching an infection that will kill them if they go out in the world, but it's about quality of life as well as quantity" argument.

I will rather mad at him if this turns out to be Mom's last holiday season because she catches Covid, and she spends Christmas dying in the hospital with a ventilator tube down her throat.
 

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I live with my parents, so I guess I have it easy when it comes to Thanksgiving. I would much rather just have a small turkey dinner with them than go to the annual shindig of my sister's in-laws. I said "no" very early on to that invite.

My mom and sis wanted to go Black Friday shopping. My big victory was convincing them that that was not a traditional we needed this year, and we will shop on our laptops together on Friday instead.

I keep thinking back to Memorial Day when the beaches opened here in California, and I was like, "Open them now so everything can be closed for Fourth of July?" And, sure enough, due to COVID spikes starting after Memorial Day, beaches were closed for the 4th, a much bigger holiday. Now I look at all these people insisting on visiting family for Thanksgiving, and I wonder whether that will lead to a) travel restrictions, b) family members sick, and/or c) family members gone for Christmas. Is it worth it to those visiting their loved ones this week?

Saw a meme on Facebook of someone saying that you should visit family this Thanksgiving because you have no guarantee that the family member will be there next year. And all I can think is: and if you're the reason they're not, how will you feel?
 

Roxxsmom

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I linked my students an ESPN article about a pro football player who just developed myocarditis due to Covid. We had a recent assignment on cardiac disorders, and myocarditis was one of the conditions. I enjoined them to be safe this holiday season and included links with articles about the risks of holiday gatherings and the interactive national "community event risk assessment" map.

We are a non-residential community college, so most of the students are local and many live with their parents. Still, some may have plans (or be experiencing pressure from friends or family) to attend gatherings with multiple households in attendance. All I can do is give them information and hope it leads to at least some making better decisions.

It's going to be very hard for a lot of folks, especially for the college students who feel they have little choice but to come home for Thanksgiving (and Christmas, when dorms close) and who have no control over the way their parents choose to celebrate the holidays.

Some news sources are questioning whether colleges should "let" their students go home for Thanksgiving. I don't think they are clear on the concept of what college is (which is odd, since most of them have been to college since the 1970s, haven't they). Colleges don't imprison their students. College students are adults, and at most campuses they live off campus after their first year or so (that's how it was at the UC schools, anyway). Maybe really small, parochial colleges have rules that confine their students to dorms for four years, but most college campuses are "open" and students come and go as they please.

Even with changes in rules, such as closing campuses and dorms to outside visitors, and imposing stricter dorm curfews and so on, and (possibly) not allowing students to physically come back to the dorms if they go home for Thanksgiving, they can't do much to control the off-campus behavior of off-campus students.

I suppose the best they could do is strongly encourage off-campus students to disclose whether they went home or attended a gathering with more than one household over the holiday, and if they did, insist that they attend their classes virtually for the rest of the semester. Of course, many (most?) colleges and universities are already doing virtual classes, so it's more a matter of whether the students who return to their apartments after traveling for the holiday choose to self quarantine by staying strictly at home for the rest of their semester, or whether they shrug the risk off and decide to shop, socialize etc. in their college-town communities, to the extent that these communities are "open" at this point.
 

CathleenT

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Well, my husband and I talked about the holidays, and we're going to spend them together, with our dogs. Under our own roof, eating food that we already froze and canned. Some of it we even grew--I've had lots of time to work on my garden.

For entertainment, we're going to walk around with masks and see the best Christmas lights the Sacramento area has to offer. There's also a church with a drive-thru light show in Roseville. We tried the one drive-in theater that's hung on, but then I remembered why I hardly ever go. I'm not that starved for something to do.

I both get it, and I don't, when it comes to people socializing. I couldn't live with myself if I killed someone, and I know this about myself. I work construction, which is actually low-risk since it's outside and away from other people. Other than the drive-thru flu shot at Kaiser, I haven't needed to see anyone at all.

It's frustrating sometimes because if everyone could do this, we could starve this thing out. But some people can't isolate, and others lack the will, and I totally get the pandemic fatigue.

Still, we have multiple vaccines only months away. Please try to hang on if you can. It's just a set of holidays. I've had truly horrible Christmases in the past. This one will only be lonely. If we can just stand to keep apart only a little longer, we can minimize the heartbreak.

Please stay as safe as you can, everyone. : )
 

Alpha Echo

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Sounds like a peaceful Thanksgiving, Cathleen.

I empathize with everyone. This is a difficult decision to make, and not just because everyone wants to see family. For me, the decision went deeper than that - there's guilt and holiday stress and the kids, etc. As ya'll know...I was struggling. Now that I've made the decision not to visit family, it seems simple. But it wasn't at the time.

However, I know that if we had no family nearby and were expected to fly to see anyone for the holidays, there's no way in hell we'd be on a plane. I was talking to a guy from work yesterday who flew this past weekend (for pleasure (such as it is during a pandemic I guess)), and he said there was not one empty seat on the plane. Everyone was required to wear masks, but he said that many people let the masks slide so they weren't covering their noses. (that drives me crazy). And this guy is still getting together with his family! He's older, and he said he and his wife are the oldest people who will be there, and they're willing to risk it...

Nope. Still gonna be a long time before I consider any type of mass transit.

I'd never forgive myself if I knew I even possibly may have caused someone to become ill, let alone to die from this terrible flu.
 

Roxxsmom

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This Thanksgiving is going to be pretty much the same as it usually is for us. We never go "home" for Thanksgiving anymore, because my family lives 8 hours to the south and my spouse's 8 hours to the north. We teach, so we must work until late afternoon (or even evening) on Weds, and be back to work first thing Mon morning, and with the end of the semester looming, we can't take an entire weekend off from grading, exam writing, and patiently fielding frantic e-mails from students who just noticed they haven't turned in half their assignments and haven't gotten above 60% on any exam and want to know "if there is anything they can do to get their grade up to a B" at this point.

An 8-hour drive weds night (and if visiting my family, this could be longer due to traffic through LA en route to Orange County), then a tired, underslept Thanksgiving day, then either staying the whole weekend and not getting any work done, or weathering the sad eyes from whichever parent we were visiting and driving back on Sat (so we can spend Sunday with the nose to the grindstone) was so stressful.

So I am cooking a turkey breast and trimmings, but we shall have cupcakes instead of pumpkin pie for dessert. Neither of us are huge pumpkin pie fans (I regard it mainly as a vehicle for whipped cream).

I'm sure the dogs and cats will enjoy some scraps too. But no skin! One time, many years ago, when we did spend T-day with my family, my dad surreptitiously fed prodigious amounts of turkey skin to the dog we had at the time. The poor gal became so ill we were very close to a trip to the emergency vet for fear it had triggered pancreatitis or something. Thankfully, she stopped vomiting after a couple of hours, but it was an example of the kind of thing that can happen at get togethers. People don't always do what is smart, or respect other peoples' rules. Which is why gatherings are especially risky during a pandemic.
 
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Lyv

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My sympathy and gratitude to those staying home and not having guests for Thanksgiving. For years, I haven't been well enough to go out or have guests for dinner, but friends would still pop over for coffee and dessert or just a hug. Knowing how much I'm already missing those, I really feel for the rest of you. But thank you. I hope very soon you can have whatever kind of gathering you want.

Once, during a meeting with my thesis advisor, I asked her how the memoir she was writing was coming along. She vented for a bit about the pressure and pushback she was getting from various family members, and finally, exasperated, blurted, "You're lucky your family is all dead." She was horrified and apologized profusely and really never stopped. As much as I loved my family and grieve them hard still (by the time I was 38, I'd lost both parents and both sisters. Bad genes, man), I cackled and assured her I knew what she meant. Sometimes I still think about that, and while I am not remotely glad my family are all dead, and I am pretty sure they'd be compliant with safety measures, when I hear about the guilt trips and pressure some of you are facing, I think of my poor thesis advisor's words.

I have a 14-month great-nibling who flew with his parents out of state for, I think, the third time since the pandemic hit. He has met many new people who cuddle and kiss him unmasked. The latest slate of pictures broke me, so I posted on Instagram an RNs screenshot of active flights with the message "Why not just punch a nurse in the face instead?" I'd been thinking almost those exact words for months. I was an RN and have so many friends who are doctors, nurses, and other medical professionals. Some aren't living with family so they can care for people who won't wear a face mask or stay home for them. My family may be the lucky ones who never had to see just how selfish half the population is. But then I see my friends who are cooking meals for others that they will leave on porches and otherwise being generous and thoughtful, and I think, there are indeed things to be thankful for. This place and all of you are on my list. I hope you all have the best possible holiday!
 
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Roxxsmom

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Staying home for T day isn't a big sacrifice for me, but staying home for Christmas will be. I always have a lot of fun visiting with my family or my husbands (we generally alternate years, and it's my mom's turn this year :cry:).

But Roxxsdad and I have agreed that it would be horrible beyond belief to get together and have something like this happen.

I'd never be able to forgive myself if my mom, or another family member became ill and died, or was permanently disabled, or suffered horribly because I gave them the virus. Plus, what if I caught it at a family get together and brought it back and gave it to someone I had to interact with here? As Lyv said, every Covid-19 patient is putting their health care providers at risk too, and nurses are especially vulnerable (having so much contact with patients).

It is also the case that I could be one who ends up in the hospital with a ventilator tube down my throat (which sounds like my worst nightmare) or dead. One of the people who died in the link above was about my age and she had no special health risks. We still do not have a crystal ball about who is going to develop the worst cases.
 
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Unimportant

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Alpha -- wait, what? She wants you to quarantine for two weeks so you can eat a meal with her? Two weeks of quarantine is a BIG ask. Heck, I came down with a cold at the start of the week (yes, got covid tested, it's just a cold) but had to self isolate until I'm symptom free for 24 hours (tomorrow, dog willing!), and that four days has been pretty miz. Two weeks, even if you can plan for it and lay in sufficient Kleenex (toilet paper leaves your nose like sandpaper), wine (I ran out yesterday, SAD!), cat food (I ran out two days ago, DISASTER!!!!!), etc, is no fun at all. And you're supposed to live apart from your husband, your child is supposed to live apart from their father, for two weeks, just so you can eat a meal with her? OMG I have no words. That is the most selfish request I've seen in forever. Tell her that SHE can quarantine herself for two weeks, going no where and seeing no one, and then you'll let her stop by for a cup of tea. Bloody hell.
 

Diana Hignutt

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Does anyone know when the people infected on Thanksgiving will be contagious? I think I'm going to take a leave of absence from work again, pretty soon. Most of my coworkers don't wear masks, or wear then wrong, or infrequently, many customers don't wear masks. We're not allowed to ask them to leave, of course, just offer them masks and try to get them out asap if they don't want them. No one social distances. Several coworkers are going to multiple family dinners. I am quickly losing my nerve.
 

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I just got the word that my family has lost our first member to Covid. We'd already made the decision to not gather for Thanksgiving, and it's going to be especially difficult now to be thankful tomorrow, all of us alone and thinking of the one that's gone. I would appreciate any comforting thoughts, vibes, and/or prayers you can spare tonight.
 

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A semi-regular email from department management at The Day Job™ went out today, and 43 positive cases of COVID have been confirmed in employees throughout the branch (we usually have a couple thousand on site but we're down to bare minimum, less than 100 per day, with everybody else working from home [which was incredibly fun on Tuesday when our building's fire alarm was tripped]). Contact tracing has all infections happening outside the branch, so protective measures have been working (braise Jeebus, because I'll be going in next week).