US election 2020 - WEEK 1...2...3

Roxxsmom

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Organized or not, an angry mob can do a lot of harm if they get caught up in the moment, and lone wolf terrorists/shooters can kill or maim a lot of people if their main purpose is to lash out. Mobs take on a life of their own, and it doesn't take a lot of skill or planning to destroy things.

And in general, even processes that start out without a long-term goal can be shaped by trial and error (or selective forces) into something more coherent and coordinated as people mindlessly flail about.
 

cbenoi1

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"99 bottles of beer on the wall"... (with the count going up instead).

Trump to issue around 100 pardons and commutations Tuesday, sources say
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/17/politics/trump-pardons-expected/index.html

Trump is still receiving multiple streams of recommendations on pardons from those advisers who remain at the White House, as well as people outside the building who have been lobbying for months for themselves or their clients. The expectation among allies is that Trump will issue pardons that he could benefit from post presidency. "Everything is a transaction. He likes pardons because it is unilateral. And he likes doing favors for people he thinks will owe him," one source familiar with the matter said.
{...}
CNN previously reported there has been a crush of pardon requests during Trump's final days in office from allies, lobbyists and others hoping to cash in on their loyalty to Trump. The New York Times reported Sunday some of those people were getting paid tens of thousands of dollars to lobby on behalf of felons hoping for pardons.

Please take a number.

-cb
 

Bufty

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"Your pardon cost me x thousand dollars. I owe you zippo. What you gonna do? Take it back?"
 

Chris P

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I'm torn on whether I think he's going to pardon any of the rioters who were arrested. They are nobodies who can do nothing for him (or to him), and aren't likely to have any information of threat to him directly. So, why would he care what happens to them? However, if there is a plausible pathway up the chain from the leaders/organizers of the rallies he might pardon them to break a chain of information leading toward his inner circle.

On the otherhand, pardoning the flunkies would royally piss off the new administration and complicate the investigation, even if it was strategically pointless. Which is fully within his character.
 

Bufty

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Of course not.
 

cbenoi1

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"Your pardon cost me x thousand dollars. I owe you zippo. What you gonna do? Take it back?"

This is what I think is going on:

Minion asks Trump a pardon for some patsy.
Trump grant pardon to said patsy.
Patsy pays Minion for the granted pardon.
Minion owes Trump a favor in the future.

Trump doesn't give a shit about the patsies. They are just 3rd parties that throw money into the scheme, nothing more. The end result is the minion got money now in exchange for a favor to Trump in the future. Well after this POTUS thing is done and over with. If this looks like your typical mafia scheme, it's because Trump acts like a mafia boss.

-cb
 
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Introversion

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Giuliani associate told ex-CIA officer a Trump pardon would 'cost $2m’

The Guardian said:
An associate of Rudy Giuliani told a former CIA officer a presidential pardon was “going to cost $2m”, the New York Times reported on Sunday in the latest bombshell to break across the last, chaotic days of Donald Trump’s presidency.

An associate of Rudy Giuliani told a former CIA officer a presidential pardon was “going to cost $2m”, the New York Times reported on Sunday in the latest bombshell to break across the last, chaotic days of Donald Trump’s presidency.

...
 

Introversion

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Prospect of Pardons in Final Days Fuels Market to Buy Access to Trump

NY Times said:
As President Trump prepares to leave office in days, a lucrative market for pardons is coming to a head, with some of his allies collecting fees from wealthy felons or their associates to push the White House for clemency, according to documents and interviews with more than three dozen lobbyists and lawyers.

The brisk market for pardons reflects the access peddling that has defined Mr. Trump’s presidency as well as his unorthodox approach to exercising unchecked presidential clemency powers. Pardons and commutations are intended to show mercy to deserving recipients, but Mr. Trump has used many of them to reward personal or political allies.

The pardon lobbying heated up as it became clear that Mr. Trump had no recourse for challenging his election defeat, lobbyists and lawyers say. One lobbyist, Brett Tolman, a former federal prosecutor who has been advising the White House on pardons and commutations, has monetized his clemency work, collecting tens of thousands of dollars, and possibly more, in recent weeks to lobby the White House for clemency for the son of a former Arkansas senator; the founder of the notorious online drug marketplace Silk Road; and a Manhattan socialite who pleaded guilty in a fraud scheme.

Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer John M. Dowd has marketed himself to convicted felons as someone who could secure pardons because of his close relationship with the president, accepting tens of thousands of dollars from a wealthy felon and advising him and other potential clients to leverage Mr. Trump’s grievances about the justice system.

A onetime top adviser to the Trump campaign was paid $50,000 to help seek a pardon for John Kiriakou, a former C.I.A. officer convicted of illegally disclosing classified information, and agreed to a $50,000 bonus if the president granted it, according to a copy of an agreement.

And Mr. Kiriakou was separately told that Mr. Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani could help him secure a pardon for $2 million. Mr. Kiriakou rejected the offer, but an associate, fearing that Mr. Giuliani was illegally selling pardons, alerted the F.B.I. Mr. Giuliani challenged this characterization.

...
 

Kaiser-Kun

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Will someone tell me why selling pardons is not SUPER ULTRA ILLEGAL AS IN HANDCUFF THIS BASTARD RIGHT NOW?!
 

MaeZe

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Will someone tell me why selling pardons is not SUPER ULTRA ILLEGAL AS IN HANDCUFF THIS BASTARD RIGHT NOW?!

Writers of the Constitution didn't think it would happen? They left the details out on purpose I suppose because they had things in mind like a POTUS pardoning combatants on the wrong side after a war was over.

But here's the silver lining someone else mentioned, bribing a government official is a new crime.
 

Lyv

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2 Guard members removed from Biden inauguration due to fringe militia group ties, official says

Two U.S. Army National Guard members are being removed from the security mission to secure Joe Biden's presidential inauguration. A U.S. Army official and a senior U.S. intelligence official say the two National Guard members have been found to have ties to fringe right group militias.

I'm worried for tomorrow. All it takes is one martyr smart enough to have kept their beliefs offline.
 

Bufty

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I think tomorrow will go just fine, starting with rumpo departing Edwards Air Force Base with hopefully minimum attendance. That would really dent his ego.

Then all focus can be on the real purpose of the day.

A new dawn for America.

No need to make America great again. It always has been. Focus on solving current issues, and keeping and cherishing the freedoms that you have.
 

talktidy

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I imagine Biden's USSS detail are going to be very nervous tomorrow. I worry because not all of 45's supporters are incompetent soldier wannabes.
 
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Lyv

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No need to make America great again. It always has been.
For rich white men, sure. Especially if they identify as Christian, cisgender, and straight. No, we've never been great, because the one constant, the one thread that runs through or national tapestry from the Pilgrims' landing to this moment, is white supremacy. We were founded on it, and the nation was built on it. We still haven't grappled with that and won't if we perpetuate that "rah rah, we've always been great" jingoism. When terrible things happen, we like to say, "This isn't who we are," which is why we never manage to become great.

I hope everything does go smoothly tomorrow. But it is not unreasonable to worry.
 

Chris P

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lizmonster

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I find the GOP more reprehensible than *rump. *rump never hid what he was. The GOP enabled all of it. There's no doubt in my mind we wouldn't have 400,000 dead if they hadn't.
 

Lyv

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From two to twelve.

Twelve U.S. Army National Guard members have been removed from the presidential inauguration security mission after they were found to have ties with right-wing militia groups or posted extremist views online, according to two U.S. officials. There was no threat to President-elect Joe Biden, they said.

I'm glad the problem of white nationalists in law enforcement and the military is getting some attention but this is a scary time.
 

Introversion

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Trump talked out of pardoning kids and Republican lawmakers

CNN said:
President Donald Trump received an unsettling warning on his final Saturday night in the White House.

Huddled for a lengthy meeting with his legal advisers, Trump was warned the pardons he once hoped to bestow upon his family and even himself would place him in a legally perilous position, convey the appearance of guilt and potentially make him more vulnerable to reprisals.

So, too, was Trump warned that pardons for Republican lawmakers who had sought them for their role in the Capitol insurrection would anger the very Senate Republicans who will determine his fate in an upcoming impeachment trial.

White House counsel Pat Cipollone and another attorney who represented Trump in his first impeachment trial, Eric Herschmann, offered the grave warnings as Trump, his daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner listened. Other lawyers joined by telephone. They all told Trump he should not pardon himself, his family or any GOP lawmakers in a prospective manner unless he was prepared to list specific crimes.

Cipollone and former Attorney General William Barr both warned Trump earlier this month they did not believe he should pardon himself, multiple sources familiar with the matter told CNN last week. Barr conveyed this position to Trump before resigning last month, sources say.

Trump continued to bring the matter up in the ensuing days, even after officials believed the issue was resolved. But the sobering meeting on Saturday evening at the White House seemed to put the idea to rest.

While Trump often discards advice he doesn't agree with -- particularly coming from Cipollone, with whom he has a fractured relationship -- the message Saturday resonated. The conversation spooked Trump in a way few others have, a person familiar with his reaction told CNN.

Now, Trump will leave office muted and disheartened at being unable to wield the power he has cherished most while president. Boxed in by his own actions that helped spark the riots at the Capitol, Trump finds himself constrained in a way he mostly avoided for his entire tenure.

...
 
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Brightdreamer

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I find the GOP more reprehensible than *rump. *rump never hid what he was. The GOP enabled all of it. There's no doubt in my mind we wouldn't have 400,000 dead if they hadn't.

+1

They've been building toward the soon-to-be-former WH occupant since at least the Reagan administration. I'm pretty sure you could trace a solid line (if not always through the TeaOP party) back through opposition to the New Deal, back to the end of the Civil War... even as far (as others have mentioned) as the founding of European colonies on North American soil.

This regime was not an aberration, a foreign attack, a temporary madness. This regime is simply the most recent and most visible symptom of a systemic disease that has been ignored by many and actively encouraged by a few for decades (at least.) Excising this tumor does little to nothing about the underlying causes, that could still be just as fatal to the host country.
 

BenPanced

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frimble3

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Well, it's the perfect time to announce to all the world, and, your father, that there's nothing more to be gained from being a Trump.