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Non-standard outlining techniques

eruthford

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I'm a plotter, but I'm kind of bad at outlining. I need some help. I'm looking for some methods of outlining that fall outside of what the average writer's conference seminar would tell you.

To explain: I certainly believe in the benefit of outlining, of writing out a summary of each scene with a goal, conflict, disaster, reaction dilemma and decision. And I believe in giving each character an agenda in the scene. But when I actually sit down to put these things into a spreadsheet -- ugh, total lockup.

So instead I use the corkboard feature of Scrivener to put a bunch of 10-word summaries of my scenes on cards and then I start writing the scenes and the end result is a weirdly structured manuscript. I have three of these on my computer. Friends have said, "Well, it's ok, but kind of... odd. I don't know what else to tell you."

I've read The Plot Whisperer, a good book, and also the stickies here on plotting, and several nice documents from my local writers' association. But what else do people do to get their outline together? Dictation in a recorder? Going on long walks and torturing your spouse with plot details? Fingerpainting? Sticky notes on the ceiling? Reading a summary to a pet? Spider chart of the subplots?

p.s. I swear I looked through the stickies, but if this question is already answered somewhere, a gentle redirect would be appreciated.
 

frimble3

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So instead I use the corkboard feature of Scrivener to put a bunch of 10-word summaries of my scenes on cards and then I start writing the scenes and the end result is a weirdly structured manuscript. I have three of these on my computer. Friends have said, "Well, it's ok, but kind of... odd. I don't know what else to tell you."
Completely ignoring the opinions of your friends, and of Other People's Books, how do you feel about your outlines?
Because, as far as I can tell, 10 words summaries of scenes, in a format that you can move around, sounds like a perfectly good way to outline. Is it working for you, or do you feel a need for more?
Remember, this isn't school: if you get something written, I've never heard of any agent or publisher wanting you to 'show your work'.
As for your friends, do they know anything about writing? Maybe they were expecting something more 'finished'?

Is there something you feel you need from your outline, or do you just feel that you're not doing outlining 'right'?
 

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Plot in whatever format works for you. Some people write by the seat of their pants, with no plotting whatsoever. A rigid outline would not work for me because i would feel married to it & wouldn’t let the freedom I need to let my characters take me where they need to. I plot using playlists that take better shape as I go through the story. A song doesn’t work anymore? Replace it. A song needs to move behind three new songs because my characters developed a different way than I expected? Easy. That’s what works for me. Do what works for you. Nobody should have to see your method anyway.
 

TylerJK

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I wouldn't expect an outline to seem anything but odd! They are just bullet points. If I were to show you an out line about my hypothetical day at work it might look something like this:

1- Drive to work
2- Punch in, talk to co-workers.
3- get on bus late, behind schedule
4- homeless passenger gets on, smells of alcohol
5- this passenger has conflict with other passengers
6-kick passenger of bus, spits on me, I hit him
7- break hand, have to go to hospital
8-unions got my back, I don't lose my job.

To me, an outline serves only to keep you on track while you write your story, a roadmap of where you want to get to. There is a story in this example outline, but laying it out briefly makes it seem odd. When you write the story you tie those basic plot points together. You make it into a story and it know longer seems odd. I would suggest running with one of those outlines you have. Tie a few of those scenes together, and then have people read it and see that it is no longer odd. With the outline, you have the whole story in your head but others don't. Try not to get bogged down by that and just run with it!
 

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I'm a huge fan of the scene-sequel approach to scenes, but FWIW my scenes don't always get that shape to them until after I'm a few drafts in.

Possibly the bits you are missing are the bits that come in during the editing/revising stage?

Another piece of advice that is occasionally helpful to me is the idea that the job of each sentence is to lead to the next. if your sentences lead one to the next, they are doing their job. This advice is not always helpful to me, especially in the plotting/drafting phase (at which point, like you, I'm more interested in character goals and actions), because it takes such a granular microscope to a story. But, it seems possible to me that your friends are getting hung up on your sentences not leading naturally one to the next and this might be a result of the stage of your drafts.

How much polishing, rewriting, revising and editing have you done on your work? It's possible the plotting end of your process is fine?
 
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ChaseJxyz

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To explain: I certainly believe in the benefit of outlining, of writing out a summary of each scene with a goal, conflict, disaster, reaction dilemma and decision. And I believe in giving each character an agenda in the scene. But when I actually sit down to put these things into a spreadsheet -- ugh, total lockup.

That sounds like actual torture to me. I have ADHD, so a lot of how I approach/think about problems isn't the "standard" way of doing so, so in situations (namely, K-12 school) that forced me to think/process ideas in a specific way was painful. There is no one right way to do long division, or to "brain storm", or to outline a story. What works for one person won't necessarily work for another, but their process might give you ideas to try out. Forcing yourself to think or work like someone else does because you """"""should"""" is one of the worst things you can do, because you're limiting your creativity and making things harder for yourself for no reason.

My process is: Write a multi-page summary of the book (as if I were explaining the whole story to a friend) in word > turn that into a bullet point-y form in word > turn those into 40 index cards in excel > outline in more detail in excel. For the last bit, the index card is the "goal" of the chapter (go to this location, have this fight, have that interaction), which is then broken up into "scenes" (say goodbye to everyone, leave the village, start traveling, run into an issue) and each "scene" will have notes for things I should include, like details for foreshadowing or how I want a character to feel about something. Some of these can be really vague (this character needs to become more confident in her skills), which allows me the freedom to pants.

Another important thing for my process is allowing myself to deviate from the outline. The story you're thinking of when you're outlining is going to be different from what actually comes out on the page. Characters will slightly change, you'll come up with a better idea, you'll find something wasn't working very well and has to go. I broke the story up into quarters and only did the detailed outlining one quarter at a time so I could change things through the process.

Don't be afraid to try different things until something starts working for you, and don't be afraid to change it if it not longer works. Every writing project is different and your skills and needs from your tools will be different as time goes on, so what you gotta do will have to change, too.
 

benbenberi

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Outlines are a very personal part of a very personal creative process -- everybody does it differently, if they do it at all, and there is no ideal version that would work well, or at all, for everybody. Some people work out detailed outlines that are, in effect, their first draft, and they just build it out with more prose and more layers of detail through many iterations. Some people outline the way we learned to outline papers in school, with all the formal coherence of I.A.1.a. Some people scribble a few bullet points on the fly on a notepad and that's their outline for the scene, or the chapter, or even the whole book. Some people put together detailed scene summaries, character profiles, beat sheets, and the like, and some people who do that use these as their outline. Others put in all the work, then put all the prework aside and wing it. Or a combination of any of the above.

You just have to figure out for yourself what actually works for you, and how much freedom vs structure, planning vs discovery, you need to make your story happen. Collect all the ideas and anecdotes from as many other writers as you want, but in the end you're going to have to do it your own way, because none of those other writers are you and your process has to be yours.
 

indianroads

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I'm a plotter, and am continually looking for ways to improve my process. It's like the actual writing; we strive to get better at with with every new project we take on.

Currently, I'm using Excel to plot my next novel and so far I like it. Even if it turns out wonderfully, I'll still do a post mortem when the project is finished and look for ways to improve.
 
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Laurel

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I don't do scene-by-scene outlines, at least not all at once.

I write a synopsis of the story. I identify key plot points, but I don't break it down into scenes at this stage.

As I write, I jot down notes about the next few scenes and what should happen in them.

I guess this is a planster approach? It works for me. And as others have said, that's all that matters. Don't force yourself to use a system just because you've heard it's the right way.
 

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Not a published writer here, so take with a pinch of salt, but...

I was a little unsure what you meant in your original post. When you said people you showed your work to commented it was a little odd, were you referring to merely the outline or actual story? If the former, I think odd would seem fair, but that's not supposed to be for general consumption. Authors who arrive at the submission to agent stage produce a different synopsis at that point.

The thought of using Excel for plotting out a novel, brings me out in hives. I tried it and it was not a happy experience for me. Since you are using Scrivener, did you find the Outline view unsatisfactory? You can print out the outline and also export it into Excel, though I have forgotten how one does that. Experiment with your print and compile settings. You can also select the compile options to print out what is on the notecards as a Word document. I have gone to town with coloured markers and pens in the past, when brainstorming.

I think outlining is different for everyone. People spend differing amounts of time on the process, according to their own character and personality and I would beware trying to force yourself into a box. Perhaps you may need a lot less in your scene outlines than you think you do? It is also possible to get lost in the weeds. Have you tried going to a wide angle view and summarsising your story in a few short lines from beginning to end to keep you on track? The proof of the pudding is the final product. Your prose. Even the best outline, however, may produce a first draft that makes you want to weep, but, well, first draft.

In all the business of trying to hammer out a plot, I think character and character motivation can get lost, especially when one's characters do things in service of that carefully constructed plot, rather than doing what that character would actually do when confronted with whatever dilemma the author is torturing them.

I hesitate to suggest more outlining resources, but have you looked at Save the Cat/Save the Cat Writes a Novel? It made me think more on weighing whether an idea was story worthy and stakes/what characters stood to lose. You can look it up on the internet and the AuthorTube community on YouTube has a ton of stuff on the subject. Save the Cat is not for everyone, but my failing is story structure or story arc and it made me focus on that. I put a lot more work into figuring out my ending too. Having a decent ending keeps me on track, because I know the story's end goal.
 

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An outline at its heart is a fancy list.

You can have a detailed list outlining events and actions and reactions.

You can have spare list with meaning only for you.

You can format it all sorts of ways—

as a fancy standard alpha numeric outline

As stickies on the wall that you move around

As a digital corkboard

As index cards that you can shuffle and rearrange until you have it "right"

All of them are viable tools to start writing a draft.

The outline rarely is intended to make much sense to anyone but the writer; it's a skeleton.

You need to flesh it out by either adding detail or simply using the outline as a guide to start your draft.

To explain: I certainly believe in the benefit of outlining, of writing out a summary of each scene with a goal, conflict, disaster, reaction dilemma and decision. And I believe in giving each character an agenda in the scene. But when I actually sit down to put these things into a spreadsheet -- ugh, total lockup.

I know a handful, at best, who work this way, and it works for them. It doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine.

You might be someone who starts with an outline that's sparse and you fill out the details as you write.

What works for you as a writer and the current book, is what's "right."

If what you're doing isn't working for you, it's ok to try something else.
 
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indianroads

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We have to remember that writing is an ART, and as such it defies attempts to quantify a singular process that works for all.

So, to the OP - do what works for you. My suggestion is that when you finish a project you take a long look at your process and determine what worked, what could be improved, and what should be chucked in the trash. Flesh all that out, then use that new process for your next project.

Lather, rinse, and repeat.
 

angeliz2k

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An outline at its heart is a fancy list.

You can have a detailed list outlining events and actions and reactions.

You can have spare list with meaning only for you.

You can format it all sorts of ways—

as a fancy standard alpha numeric outline

As stickies on the wall that you move around

As a digital corkboard

As index cards that you can shuffle and rearrange until you have it "right"

All of them are viable tools to start writing a draft.

The outline rarely is intended to make much sense to anyone but the writer; it's a skeleton.

You need to flesh it out by either adding detail or simply using the outline as a guide to start your draft.



I know a handful, at best, who work this way, and it works for them. It doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine.

You might be someone who starts with an outline that's sparse and you fill out the details as you write.

What works for you as a writer and the current book, is what's "right."

If what you're doing isn't working for you, it's ok to try something else.

I've done the bolded to work out sticky sections of plot--not necessarily the whole ms, but to track multiple POV characters and plot points that I needed to hit. It helped a lot to be able to jot down the plot points and move them around and have various columns for the different POVs and so forth.

To the OP, you may need less outline than you think. You may not be a 100% "pantser", but that doesn't mean you need to plan everything out thoroughly. I personally am somewhere in between. I know what "the story" is--which generally means where it begins and ends and a general idea of how to get there, or a general theme/conceit. But that's really bare bones, and as I go secondary characters and plots kind of appear as needed. For me, it's like finding my way in the dark. I know what I'm setting out to do, and I have an idea of some landmarks along the way, but I only see clearly for a few feet in front of me at any given time; the rest is still obscure.
 

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If there's one thing I learned from this website, everyone is different. There's no right way or wrong way, only the way that works best for you.
 

Gateway

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I'm a plotter, but I'm kind of bad at outlining. I need some help. I'm looking for some methods of outlining that fall outside of what the average writer's conference seminar would tell you.

To explain: I certainly believe in the benefit of outlining, of writing out a summary of each scene with a goal, conflict, disaster, reaction dilemma and decision. And I believe in giving each character an agenda in the scene. But when I actually sit down to put these things into a spreadsheet -- ugh, total lockup.

So instead I use the corkboard feature of Scrivener to put a bunch of 10-word summaries of my scenes on cards and then I start writing the scenes and the end result is a weirdly structured manuscript. I have three of these on my computer. Friends have said, "Well, it's ok, but kind of... odd. I don't know what else to tell you."

I've read The Plot Whisperer, a good book, and also the stickies here on plotting, and several nice documents from my local writers' association. But what else do people do to get their outline together? Dictation in a recorder? Going on long walks and torturing your spouse with plot details? Fingerpainting? Sticky notes on the ceiling? Reading a summary to a pet? Spider chart of the subplots?

p.s. I swear I looked through the stickies, but if this question is already answered somewhere, a gentle redirect would be appreciated.

Recommend this: https://www.youtube.com/user/clickokDOTcoDOTuk/videos
 

indianroads

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I doubt there is, or ever will be a STANDARD way to outline or write a book. If there were, I could create an algorithm to write and mass produce them. Where would the fun be in that?

As stated earlier, writing is ART. We each have our own method, style, and voice - as it should be.
 

indianroads

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My method changes with every book I write, because I look back to see what worked and what didn't, then modify my process.

For my current project, I wrote up the general plot, character profiles, and world in an Excel spread sheet. I went over this document several times - writing, then expanding the plot. Then I transferred the plot to a Word-doc and expanded the plot into chapters - eventually using one page per chapter. THEN I went back to the spread sheet as I worked on the doc, mapping plot points and conflicts to be sure nothing was repeated excessively or left out.

That's where I am right now. I'll massage that document combination a bit more, and will finally begin my first draft (perhaps) next week.

When the draft is done, I'll go back to the excel sheet - create a new page, and make sure everything that needs to happen within the plot and character arcs actually occurs.

Lather, rinse, repeat. By the middle of next year, it should be complete.
 

Cephus

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It doesn't matter how you do it, it matters what it results in. If it doesn't produce a finished book, then your method, whatever it is, is faulty. A lot of people get really lost in the minutia and lose focus on the big picture. You're here to write, not plan. Everything that happens outside of writing has to serve the writing side. If it works for you, do it. It not, do something else.