Anyone Tried Writing Out of Order or Even Backwards?

I'd say go ahead. When I get stuck, I'll write future scenes, and then later tie them all up together.

There are people who swear by writing the ending early on in the process, then working towards that.

Whatever works for you!

I wrote my current WIP completely out of order and so far it's been a much better process for me.

I tend to start writing with a lot of scenes, mostly from the middle of the story, very clear in my head. When I wrote linearly it was a long, grueling effort of stringing together scenes I had little enthusiasm for to get to the parts I wanted to write, and most of the time when I got to those scenes they'd either lost their initial clarity and become muddy, or they took off in a new direction and I had to throw out the earlier stuff anyway. Writing those scenes first gets them down while they're still clear, and usually writing them causes a cascade of other clear scenes to happen as I realize, oh, so this and this must have happened before and this will happen after as a consequence and....

I'm still not the most efficient writer, but for me, it's a way to avoid obligatory scenes that up the wordcount but aren't fun to write and have a high chance of getting tossed out in the revise.

If you end up doing a lot of out-of-order writing, though, I highly recommend Scrivener or a program like it. Writing in chunks that I can easily drag and rearrange later instead of a single long document (or a bunch of individual documents) has been a lifesaver.

...hbt pu dessef sah esle eno on desirprus fo dniK. sdrawkcab kniht ot flesruoy ecrof ot tsuj sgniht esrever ot nuf s'ti semitemoS !emit eht llA

gothicangel said:

So, I hit the mid-point of my WIP back in July/August, since then I have only managed to write a few thousand words even though I want to write. Its not that I don't know what is going to happen next, I seem to be struggling on a scene level.

So, I have been reading a book called Finish Your Book which is about techniques to unstick the middle section (which I don't think is saggy at all). One technique mentioned is writing out of order (and I've listened to podcasts suggesting writing the ending and working backwards too). So, now I'm thinking why don't I jump ahead and writing the novel's final 20,000 words first (which have been well planned from at least 6 months), then work backwards to sort out this middle muddle?

Anyone tried anything similar?

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Yes, sort of.

I'm on my second novel and I'd say for both of them I put nonsense in the middle to sort out later. Yes, similar, in that the ending was fairly clear to me and I just physically needed to get the heroes to that point in a way that was engaging--but that middle section (and actually not the whole middle, but from about the 55-80% mark) could have gone a dozen different ways. It was too early for the climax. The heroes have just had their dark night and mirror moment. More 'stuff' was needed before the final 'thing.' Maybe, the heroes needed to sort out a few new clues or whatnot, or hone up their skills, or maybe a romantic subplot needed to come in to increase the final stakes--it didn't really matter how those bits unfolded (as long as they did unfold toward the climax) because all of the fundamental stuff (establishment of problem, roping the hero into the journey, world-building, developing characters and relationships and all that, etc) was in place by the 55-60% mark.

So, while I wrote my way to the end largely in order, I knew that chunk in the middle would need rewriting, multiple times. A lot of writing gets tossed in the end, and that's fine.

Oh, I also occasionally stick with a viewpoint for multiple chapters then switch to the other viewpoint and interweave them later. That is sort of writing out of order.

And I've heard a great idea from someone here about writing series in reverse order to ensure that each book stands alone. I like that idea a lot but have not tried it.

I always write in order, but that's just my personal preference.

I do some plotting before starting a novel -- I want to know the main plot points and the ending so I know I won't write myself into a corner -- but there's a lot that I discover as I write. I feel like I wouldn't have a solid enough idea of a scene if I wrote it out of order. If I find that my writing is slowing down and I'm losing motivation, it's usually because there's a problem with the manuscript. Instead of skipping forward, I need to go back, analyze my plot, and figure out where I went wrong.

But again, that's just my personal preference. When I was in a writing group (ah, the pre-COVID days), quite a few of the writers said they wrote out of order. Some said they liked to write the scenes they were most excited about or had the clearest vision for first and then figure out how to connect everything. And any problems in the first draft can always be fixed in revisions. The most important thing is that you find a way to finish the draft. If you think writing out of order might work for you, you should try it!

I think when I'm reading a book and I get to that point, I just want 'more' of whatever I'm loving. More time in the world, more development of characters I'm enjoying. Sometimes a subplot gets worked out in that section, in prep for the big finale. Or enemies turn to lovers.

Take Star Wars (A New Hope). The analogous section of Star Wars IV basically happens between (1) Han/Chewie/Luke/Leia's escape from the Death Star, and (2) they subsequently blow up the Death Star. We go to a new setting, (the rebel base) and we download the data from R2, and we strategize the final attack. So, more world building (rebel base, militaristic structure, new rebellion characters like the fish face guy) and gearing up for the final battle.

But this section could have gone otherwise. It could have been structured that Luke needed a new teacher to learn that last trick he needed for that episode, since Obi Wan had died. Or they could have set it up that the data in R2 could be analyzed on the Falcon and the rebel base wasn't needed at all and Han and Luke joined forces and set things right, immediately.

What needs to happen, at the climax, is the death star needs to be destroyed. That part was ~established from the opening scenes. It's the worst weapon imaginable. We must destroy it! So the viewer expects that climax.

The way they managed their 55-80% section added balance and stuff. It would feel weird if an author jumped straight from the midpoint to the climax. There needs to be a new build up. New stuff. (Great word, stuff.) In SW IV they added that moon base where they discover the weakness to the Death Star, and they plan the final attack. It was 'more' of what we loved about the story to that point.

But the story problem and characters and all the fundamentals were well in place already, and they could have filled in that section in other ways than they did.

That's my opinion, anyway.

I write out of order, get chapters done that are easier, save harder ones until later, rearrange some things, toss chapters out.

I'd say if you're struggling to write those next (plot-wise) chapters, jumping ahead is a good idea. If you're excited to write the last 20K, then go to it. Sometimes leaping forward to the part your brain is ready to write is a more fruitful process than trying to force the in-between.I say this as someone who used to only write in order and now hops around. I usually jump forward to a turning point or where two characters meet/have a significant emotional moment (big fight scene, big kiss, etc.) and find the connective scenes between where I was in the book and that point come much easier afterward OR I decide that maybe the scene(s) I'd planned there don't quite work and that was why I was stalling out.

I have never, ever written a book in order. If I know what has to happen later on, I'd prefer to write it when it's fresh in my mind than waiting for weeks.

Sonya Heaney said:

I have never, ever written a book in order. If I know what has to happen later on, I'd prefer to write it when it's fresh in my mind than waiting for weeks.

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And I always write a book in order. We each do whatever works for us.

I've had scenes appear out of order in my head, so I write them when I've got them. Then when I get to that part of the story, I plug it in a reqrite as needed.

100% of the time I write out of order. It makes an awful mess to untangle later, but when I have an idea for a scene I write the scene and worry about jamming the puzzle pieces together later.

I've tried this, but it never works for me. At best, I can skip over a transition or linking scene (and usually have to at least add a summary of what that scene is meant to accomplish), but my brain wants the story told in order.

That said, I often have conceptual pictures of later scenes throughout the story that I'm writing 'to', so to speak - a climatic battle, a tender moment, a meaningful sacrifice. I know what those scenes look like in my head. I just can't write them until I get there. And usually, by the time I do, they might not look anything like my original thought, or might not exist at all.

I frequently write out of order. I don't think I have ever written back to front, but I do usually have an ending in mind if not actually sketched out.

For me, writing scenes that are not the next in line is kind of like giving myself goalposts. I may be uncertain (or just bogged down) in the story as it's progressing linearly, but if I skip ahead a little or a lot I give myself a point to reach that is closer than "The End" which is, personally, useful. I also sometimes find that writing those later scenes reveal stuff that my lizard brain has been working on that changes how I approach a scene where I'm stuck.

I recently jumped ahead to a scene I thought was the Act 2/Act3 turning point. And once I started writing it, I realized it was 1) actually the climax of the book, 2) much different than I had planned (but in a good way), and 3) opened up the rest of the plot into another book or two in a way that made a lot more sense. But it does change the way I am approaching scenes in the middle of the book because it's a different reveal than I had first imagined.

But I have also had novels where I wrote a chapter out of order and then when I got there it didn't fit and I rewrote it. But it still helped me keep writing because I was working toward a goal.

This is definitely one of those things that if it works for you on a specific book then do it, and if it doesn't then don't.

Jason said:

...hbt pu dessef sah esle eno on desirprus fo dniK. sdrawkcab kniht ot flesruoy ecrof ot tsuj sgniht esrever ot nuf s'ti semitemoS !emit eht llA

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Jason-

What can I say here? It's so hard to contradict you!

Anyway, I myself do write scenes out of turn. It's a good remedy for Writer's Block, which hits me way too often.

Yes, I do it sometimes. If I have the inspiration to write a chapter now, I do it. I will bridge the gap later...

I frequently hit roadblocks when writing. It’s not often a proper writer’s block, because I can shift to writing another part of my tale. I don’t think I’ve ever written anything in the order it finally ends up, fiction or no. Doubtless another example of my chaotic thought processes.

Well, you did ask in the title if I've tried it, and the answer is yes and I hate it. It's impossible to hit the right emotional tone when I don't have the previous scene written and therefore don't know the emotional tone of that.

Glad it works for some people though. Hope it works for you!

I have tried it in little bits and pieces, and it's never worked for me. I tend to be a hybrid outliner/pantser. I create a lot of backstory for my characters/worlds, but the events covered by the book get only a basic outline. I pants from one bullet point to the next, usually updating the outline as new ideas come to me.

I agree with the idea that writer's block always has a cause, sometimes with one's personal life, but often with the book. If there's a scene I don't want to write, there is a reason. Does it conflict with something I've already written, or something in my outline for later in the book? Does thinking about this scene bore me? If so, it'll probably bore the reader, so why write it?

The solution is to either skip that scene or re-imagine it so it is interesting to write.

I'll skip ahead when I'm either stuck or there's something I feel like I have to write. The downside is often the later-scene will need fixes or edits because the continuity will be messed up.

But I probably do it at least once a project. Sometimes it's a tiny jump (either the next chapter or later on in a scene), other times it's huge.

If you're going to step away from a section for a while at times because something isn't clicking. it kinda helps to keep writing somewhere else. Otherwise it's just wasted time.

I write completely out of order, skipping ahead and then filling the gaps. Going back to an earlier point and changing it to match something that happens later. Sometimes the gaps refuse to be filled because the bit down the line is wrong or something else emerges that is incompatible with it. Then I write another forward scene to aim towards or change the past to fit the new future. Repeat as needed until I have a draft. When I have a draft with a beginning, a middle and an end, it's a baggy mess that needs pruning and reshaping. Stuff comes out. Other stuff goes in. Scenes get rewritten with a different tone or from a different perspective. Repeat as needed.

In the end, there's a book, if I do it this way, even though, when I'm writing the first draft, I'm not sure what the story is (mood yes, theme yes, plot no). At the moment, about 80 k into the project, my story is a mess because I'm not thinking about the big picture. I'm creating lots of little pictures that aren't yet on the same scale or in the same palette. They will be in the end, I hope, but only if I don't force them too soon. At some point, if I don't think about it too much, the pattern will resolve itself. Or that's what's happened in the past.

Yes, it's slow. Yes, other people's methods are faster and more efficient. However, this way has worked for me before, so I'm trusting it will work again. I like the story I'm writing and the characters I'm writing about and I want to know what happens and how! The times I've made plans and plotted out a story before trying to write have been disasters (I've talked elsewhere of experiencing years of writer's block). Knowing what happens kills all desire and ability to write the thing, so an approach that looks coherent and sensible is, for me, a dead end.

Skipping ahead or jumping around to different sections works for some writers. When I first started writing, I tried using the 'Island' method. Write little scenes or islands and then tie them all together. It was an utter disaster because I could never get things to flow together, and it read like a poorly edited movie. But it did help me learn 'how' to skip around when I was having problems with one section.

Try it and see what works for you. Sometimes moving past a part will help you figure out what's not working or give you a better idea. Each of us writes differently, and we all had to learn what worked for us. The worst that can happen is you have to re-write something

gothicangel said:

Anyone tried anything similar?

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I've seen a few writers saying they do this and it helps them. I've tried it once and while it was a good experience, it kind of bugged my brain haha So, I'm not sure if it works for me, but I think you should definitely give it a shot to see how you feel!