Really? No, really?

jeb101 · Oct 15, 2020

As my thread below says, I am new to all this author/writing stuff.

At 80 years old I never, ever thought, "Gee, I think I will be an author."

But when I did start to think about doing so I did what I guess a very high percentage of those that arrive here do - I did a google search and found a site that recommended this group. (And a great group it is - really.) In my only 4 days here I have found a lot of interesting threads and have already learned a lot. (Hey, when you start at zero, just moving to 1 is a big step.)

But being new to all this I came here with one very big question - is what I am writing any good or am I just wasting my time? I would guess that this is the question a very high percentage who come here are asking as well.

But what did I fine? That to get to ask that question one must have 50 posts! (See, I did read the newbie guide.)

Really? No, really?

Why?

Now, I am sure I will get a lot of reasons as to why this requirement but think about it - if this is the number one question that most people have when they arrive here and this is what they find they must do to get that question answered, guess what many will do? Go post a bunch of post for no other reason than to get to 50. (And that is good for whom? (See, I told you I read the guide.)

I have been here only 4 days now - I have about 20 posts. Not one single one of those post are just to reach 50 - most were in the thread below I started on day one and several were on other threads when I though I had something that might be of interest.

But I want to get my number 1 question answered - am I wasting my time here? Must I now go back and see if I can find a place that will answer that question for me. Why?

OK - have at me, but I bet I am not the only one that has thought this way. - stay safe - jb

Ari Meermans · Oct 15, 2020

Hiya, Jeb. Welcome to AW; sorry I'm just now welcoming you.

Yep, it's a good question and a lot of folks do have that question when they first join. There's a good reason for that 50-minimum-post threshold: You see, folks were joining only in order to get a crit and were leaving having gotten what they wanted without giving back to the community. AW is a community, not a crit service. There are sites out there that do perform that service; some are good, some not so good. As a community, we invest in each other. We give our time—and many of us also give our knowledge and expertise—to make each other better writers. The 50-post requirement is to give you a chance to get to know us as community and for us to have the opportunity to get to know you. Join in discussions and offer crits of your own and before you know it, you'll have those fifty posts.

Maryn · Oct 15, 2020

Ari said it better than I was going to, but then, I'm known around here for being downright crotchety when it comes to people taking without giving back one damned thing. I feel used, the same way I'd be if a neighbor happily took my home-grown tomatoes or cut flowers but refused to be the person to whom I entrusted a spare key in case I ever got locked out, because I might bother then when they were busy. All take, no give.

What we want from you is for you to become One Of Us. We're delighted to have new blood, always. So hi there. What's up with you this afternoon? I'm kind of gloomy, on quarantine and wishing I'd gotten in one last grocery store run.

Maryn, hoping she's the lovable kind of grouch rather than the kind everyone rightfully avoids

Ari Meermans · Oct 15, 2020

Heh. Ari's in a mellow mood this evening. This is my 70th birthday week (birthday was Monday) and I'm celebrating the heck out of the whole week. :greenie

Woollybear · Oct 15, 2020

Well, I'd like to be the first to point out that:

Go post a bunch of post for no other reason than to get to 50. (And that is good for whom? (See, I told you I read the guide.)

Is good for the Limericks thread. And it totally counts toward fifty, and is naughty besides.

In truth, most people on the 'fun and games' board never post anywhere else.

They don't use it, by and large, toward 50 posts. It seems to work out.

Here're a few recent limericks. I'm only trying to entice you to play, mind you.

I once met a man on a plane,
at first blush, I thought him insane.
He said, "I'm from Mars;
I like drinking in bars;
it tickles my alien brain."

I felt a strange sense of alarm,
when he screamed and drew a sidearm.
So I fled down the aisle--
which felt like a mile--
to prevent myself coming to harm.

The pilot then said: "Listen up,
"I'm an old hand, and you but a pup.
You see that rear door
And those marks on the floor?"
I said, "You mean--" He grinned and said, "Yup!"

lizmonster · Oct 15, 2020

It was some years after I joined before I put words up for crit. By then I knew the community, and I knew some individuals; I knew who I was hoping would crit the piece, and I knew who would be harsh and who wouldn't.

It was still a traumatic experience.

But the crits were dead on, and I am still grateful for every one.

AW is a cooperative, really. Yes, you can come here and talk about hobbies or movies or TV, or books or even your own writing without ever asking for a crit, or giving one. But when the time comes for you to get objective eyes on something - trust me, you'll be happy you know the people who'll be reading.

Melissa.O'Connor · Oct 15, 2020

I have to admit, my reaction was the same as yours when I first heard about the 50 posts. I'm not exactly the patient kind, but it takes more effort than this to write a story, even if it's a short story, so in comparison, 50 posts isn't too bad. Once I thought about it, I agreed that there are people who only want to take and don't want to give, as I've found in some of the Facebook groups I'm in. So I'll patiently wait with you until we get to 50!

AW Admin · Oct 15, 2020

Most people have absolutely no idea what it's like to have someone honestly respond to their writing.

It's hard. Most people aren't prepared for it.

Requiring 50 posts means:

You have a chance to read the Share your work Stickies.

You have a chance to read other people's posted for crit writing and see what happens in a crit.

You have a chance to get to know the community so you have a feel for who's an idiot and who actually knows something about writing and critting.

You have a chance to try your own hand at critting; this is crucial. Critting is one of the best ways to learn about writing.

When someone rushes to be critted, and is unprepared for reality, it's ugly and a waste of time from members who really do try to be helpful as well as kind.

Some years ago, before we had the 50 post rule, people would join, get critted, and disappear, essentially exploiting the community without giving back. ANd quite often, they had little meltdowns because critting means pointing out what works and what doesn't work, and some times people really aren't prepared to hear what doesn't work. They respond poorly, often with anger and abuse, often with "yeah but, . . . ." "that's my style," "You just aren't a good reader," or "I explain that later" etc.

Hang around. Crit some. Read the stickies. Read other people's stickies.

PyriteFool · Oct 15, 2020

Another thing that I've personally noticed/experienced is that hanging around for 50 posts helps prepare writers (myself included) for crit by getting us in the right mindset. Helping us ask the right questions. I actually don't think "am I wasting my time?" is the most helpful question. I get it, since I wondered the same thing (still do sometimes). But writing is a skill, not a binary good/bad trait. Sure, some people have an easier time than others, but I firmly believe anyone can learn to write well with time and practice. Posting and engaging teaches you the things you didn't even know you had to learn.

Eta: I also don't think writing is ever a waste if time if it brings the writer joy. "Good" is amorphous, subjective, and really only an issue if you want to get paid

frimble3 · Oct 15, 2020

Also, there's no one standard answer to 'is what I am writing any good or am I just wasting my time?'.
There is 'I don't read that genre, so I don't know', or 'Needs work' or 'Try this'.

Also, just reading the stuff other people put up for critique and considering the responses will give you ideas. Both about your work, and the value of their advice.
Don't just race to 50- find the category of SYW that seems to most closely resemble your work and see what others are doing, and what the responses are. It'll be easier to judge the advice if you know what's 'usual'.

mccardey · Oct 15, 2020

Also, not everyone is here to be critted. Some of us just like to chat to other writers. I have been here forever, and I've never put a piece up for crit. I beta-read, though, and I do the occasional crit. Thing is though, I've learned a lot about writing, and people and reading and critting just by being here. It's a worthwhile place to hang for all sorts of reasons.

jeb101 · Oct 15, 2020

OK - we now have all these reasons why you do what you do - it seems to break down to, "I don't want to waste my time if someone isn't going to help me." (Well, some of you do say you like to be brutally honest.)

That seems to be a very strange way to think by people that say they are here to help people and I am sure most of you don't fall into that mold. I, personally, have never helped people thinking, "what can I get in return."

And, as I am being this "brutally honest", it seems that ya'll are worried you can't keep someone on your board unless you blackmail them. From what I have seen, I don't think that is true but maybe you should be askin' WHY they leave and don't come back and are they the people your really want here. Personally, if I go somewhere else and a few people think what I am doing is at least passable and I decide to continue, I will come back to learn HOW to do it - unless ya'll don't want me here, that is.

But maybe I am not clear as to what I want - maybe I don't know what, "clit" means. I don't want some in depth, time consuming exam of what I am doing and detailed as to now to do it - just a simple do you think someone would be interested in the way I write.

Because I write the way I think - and it is not even close to "normal". And I don't have any intention of changing HOW I write so if people with all this knowledge don't think it will fly then I won't waste my time. If they do think I have possibilities then I will continue trying to learn a craft I know nothing about.

Unlike some that are here and have a burning desire to be an author, I could care less. Also, the same as to if I do end up writing a book and it doesn't sell a single copy that wouldn't bother me much.

I do enjoy what writing I have done and IF what I write could be of interest to others that is enough for me.

So, again, thank all of your for your time and input - we will agree to disagree.

- jb

lizmonster · Oct 15, 2020

My goodness.

50 posts isn't at all an onerous prerequisite. And no one is barred from participating in any forum on these boards, including Share Your Work, before then. The one and only privilege withheld is to ask for crit.

Beyond that, there's one rule on these boards: RYFW. Respect your fellow writer.

I'm not sure calling us blackmailers is respectful, but you do you.

Good luck with all your work.

be frank · Oct 15, 2020

I mean, this is certainly an interesting way to introduce yourself to a community. But as lizmonster says, you do you.

jeb101 said:
maybe I don't know what, "clit" means.

I suspect the board's erotica writers could probably help you with this one...

mccardey · Oct 15, 2020

jeb101 said:
OK - we now have all these reasons why you do what you do - it seems to break down to, "I don't want to waste my time if someone isn't going to help me." (Well, some of you do say you like to be brutally honest.)

That seems to be a very strange way to think by people that say they are here to help people and I am sure most of you don't fall into that mold. I, personally, have never helped people thinking, "what can I get in return."

And, as I am being this "brutally honest", it seems that ya'll are worried you can't keep someone on your board unless you blackmail them. From what I have seen, I don't think that is true but maybe you should be askin' WHY they leave and don't come back and are they the people your really want here. Personally, if I go somewhere else and a few people think what I am doing is at least passable and I decide to continue, I will come back to learn HOW to do it - unless ya'll don't want me here, that is.

But maybe I am not clear as to what I want - maybe I don't know what, "clit" means. I don't want some in depth, time consuming exam of what I am doing and detailed as to now to do it - just a simple do you think someone would be interested in the way I write.

Because I write the way I think - and it is not even close to "normal". And I don't have any intention of changing HOW I write so if people with all this knowledge don't think it will fly then I won't waste my time. If they do think I have possibilities then I will continue trying to learn a craft I know nothing about.

Unlike some that are here and have a burning desire to be an author, I could care less. Also, the same as to if I do end up writing a book and it doesn't sell a single copy that wouldn't bother me much.

I do enjoy what writing I have done and IF what I write could be of interest to others that is enough for me.

So, again, thank all of your for your time and input - we will agree to disagree. - jb

Dammit, be frank beat me to it.

AW Admin · Oct 15, 2020

jeb101 said:
And, as I am being this "brutally honest", it seems that ya'll are worried you can't keep someone on your board unless you blackmail them. From what I have seen, I don't think that is true but maybe you should be askin' WHY they leave and don't come back and are they the people your really want here. Personally, if I go somewhere else and a few people think what I am doing is at least passable and I decide to continue, I will come back to learn HOW to do it - unless ya'll don't want me here, that is.

Dude you were distraught when you couldn't get your registration approved immediately on a holiday weekend.

And now you're verklempt at having to write 50 posts?

There are lots of other forums. Here's a list.

jeb101 said:
But maybe I am not clear as to what I want - maybe I don't know what, "clit" means. I don't want some in depth, time consuming exam of what I am doing and detailed as to now to do it - just a simple do you think someone would be interested in the way I write.

I think you mean crit, as in critique, or critting.

And we're done here.

Really? No, really?

jeb101

Ari Meermans

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter

Maryn

At Sea

Ari Meermans

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter

Woollybear

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Melissa.O'Connor

AW Admin

PyriteFool

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

mccardey

jeb101

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

be frank

not a bloke, not named frank

mccardey

AW Admin