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MC struggling with his thoughts / the inner back and forth

H7TM4N

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So far I've mixed writing thoughts in either the style of narration (third person past non-italicized) and first person present and italicized. The latter when I want to literally quote my characters thought.

For example: John knocked on the door. Would they blame him for being late? Surely they would understand, once he told them what had happened.
OR John knocked on the door. Damn! I'm late. Still, it's a wonder I made it all.

My question is can I mix these two styles when the main character is struggling with his thoughts? John knocked on the door. Would they blame him for being late? Damn them if they do! It probably wouldn't help if he got angry… Right, I really need to try to stay calm.

These are quick examples, don't judge my writing ;) I'm just wondering what you think of this method? Are there better ways of doing inner dialogue/arguing with oneself? As far as I know they are both pretty common ways of writing thought, I'm just not as familiar with mixing both styles.
 

angeliz2k

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You certainly can! I think of it as zooming in or out--if you're zoomed out, you're seeing the world and not really the character's thoughts; you zoom in a bit, and you see what the character is thinking but not necessarily the words going through their head; zoom in real close, and you hear the exact words. You can move between these different perspectives so long as you make it clear what's going on. I think your example above is successful. If you notice, you start wide and zoom in to the character's thoughts, then zoom in further to verbatim thoughts, then zoom out a little, then back in. That might sound disorienting, but you zoom in/out one step at a time; a sudden jump would be a little harder to pull off.
 

Woollybear

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I see authors do this. I agree that it works.

I also see authors occasionally use words like thought/mused/considered/debated/etc as a way of pointing to the fact that we are in thought. And other tricks.

John knocked on the door. Would they blame him for being late? He considered leaving, and the longer he waited the more he thought it might be a good idea. Damn them if they do! It probably wouldn't help if he got angry… Right, I really need to try to stay calm.

When we use one approach over another might change, of course. We might try one type of thought and later decide that another type is more appropriate.
 

H7TM4N

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Thanks for the help. Sometimes it's tricky when to formulate a thought as part of narration and when to "zoom in" to italics. So far, I've done all strong reactionary thoughts or mental exclamations in italics, as opposed to the more relaxed or wondering thoughts. Would any of you ever write thoughts like "damn!/Hell!/No!" Without using italics?
 

Woollybear

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I find it varies by character, and genre, but yes, that gets done as well.

Good advice is to read your favorite authors, or new authors, analytically. Read widely, write, read some more and write some more and believe in yourself and allow yourself to change your mind.
 

Roxxsmom

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There are different ways of doing this, and I think they can all work. One thing that drives the choice is narrative distance. I tend to see the italics used more in narratives that have an external or omniscient narrator, or a more distant limited third, where the narrative itself is not in the voice of a viewpoint character. The italics indicate that you are directly inside a character's head, seeing their exact words.

With first person or a deeper/closer limited third, italics aren't generally needed, because the narrative is already in the viewpoint character's voice or exact words.

Frex:

"What is this crap? Herbal tea?" Tom poured his mug down the sink. "You know I prefer Earl Gray."
Sue slammed the kettle down. She'd tried to do him a favor, and he was being an ungrateful jerk. As usual. Fine, then. He could make his own damned tea.

vs

"What is this crap? Herbal tea?" Tom poured his mug down the sink. "You know I prefer Earl Gray."
Sue slammed the kettle down. I tried to do him a favor, and he's an ungrateful jerk. As usual. Fine, then. He can make his own damned tea.

I tend to write in first person or in a closer version of limited third, so I go with the first approach. But there's nothing wrong with the second, IMO. It's a stylistic choice. I do find the italics more cumbersome if there is a lot of internal narrative or long passages of internal narrative. I don't like it when there are italics every few sentences, or when there are long paragraphs of italicized text. It can also be confusing if one is using italics for non verbal speech, such as telepathy (in a SF context).
 
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H7TM4N

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There are different ways of doing this, and I think they can all work. One thing that drives the choice is narrative distance. I tend to see the italics used more in narratives that have an external or omniscient narrator, or a more distant limited third, where the narrative itself is not in the voice of a viewpoint character. The italics indicate that you are directly inside a character's head, seeing their exact words.

With first person or a deeper/closer limited third, italics aren't generally needed, because the narrative is already in the viewpoint character's voice or exact words.

Frex:

"What is this crap? Herbal tea?" Tom poured his mug down the sink. "You know I prefer Earl Gray."
Sue slammed the kettle down. She'd tried to do him a favor, and he was being an ungrateful jerk. As usual. Fine, then. He could make his own damned tea.

vs

"What is this crap? Herbal tea?" Tom poured his mug down the sink. "You know I prefer Earl Gray."
Sue slammed the kettle down. I tried to do him a favor, and he's an ungrateful jerk. As usual. Fine, then. He can make his own damned tea.

I tend to write in first person or in a closer version of limited third, so I go with the first approach. But there's nothing wrong with the second, IMO. It's a stylistic choice. I do find the italics more cumbersome if there is a lot of internal narrative or long passages of internal narrative. I don't like it when there are italics every few sentences, or when there are long paragraphs of italicized text. It can also be confusing if one is using italics for non verbal speech, such as telepathy (in a SF context).

Not quite telepathy, but I do have another viewpoint character in the story that experiences a form of "part-possession/schizophrenia/fractured personality"-situation :p , basically a mental hitchhiker that he'll communicate with; it's been interesting making that work, too. I'm using a combination of italics and tags, and separation in new paragraphs for that particular puzzle.
 

TurbulentMuse

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I think your example at least could work in all non-italicized third person, I generally try to stick to that style unless there's a reason not to, such as the character's actual thoughts being overheard by another. I'm not saying that switching between that and italicized first person wouldn't work, but it might flow better all in one style, and help give voice to the third person narration.