Tricky grammar question about subject/verb agreement.

MaeZe · Oct 11, 2020

Came up today in a forum post I was writing:

We know that from other antivirals: treatment for HSV and for influenza both for example, works...

So is this 'treatment works'

Or 'other antivirals work'

I see writing this out I should lose the colon.

I should probably rewrite the whole sentence to avoid the problem altogether.

Thanks in advance.

lizmonster · Oct 11, 2020

I'm pretty sure it'd be "work," as in they both work.

MaeZe · Oct 11, 2020

Okay that makes sense. I guess I just needed fresh eyes.

Thanks.

I shouldn't over think this but now I think it was silly to put "both" in there.

... treatment for HSV and for influenza, for example, works...

then it should be 'treatment works'

Looking at it this way, it would appear "other antivirals" are not what work, rather treatment works.

"We know that" is the answer to a question in case it was confusing to anyone.

Chris P · Oct 12, 2020

MaeZe said:
Okay that makes sense. I guess I just needed fresh eyes.

Thanks.

I shouldn't over think this but now I think it was silly to put "both" in there.

... treatment for HSV and for influenza, for example, works...

then it should be 'treatment works'

Looking at it this way, it would appear "other antivirals" are not what work, rather treatment works.

"We know that" is the answer to a question in case it was confusing to anyone.

"Treatment works" is only correct if it's the same treatment for both. If they are different treatments, then shouldn't it be "the treatments for HSV and influenza work"?

Layla Nahar · Oct 12, 2020

I was thinking that the 'works' goes with 'both' - actually I had a hard time following the sentence as written - but sometimes these things are harder to follow out of context when we're looking for bugs...

eta: and then when I thought about it more I would say 'both work well' - so 'both works' doesn't actually work. (but 'treatment works' made sense to me)

AW Admin · Oct 12, 2020

It should be work. Remove the insertion "for example" (and it needs a comma!) Treatment for HSV and for influenza both work.

There are larger problems with the sentence that are creating the subject verb agreement problem.

Generally speaking, when a native or natively fluent speaker of English has a subject verb agreement problem that's a sign that the subject of the sentence isn't clear, and often, that you need to front the verb, that is, place the verb and the subject closer together in the sentence.

You need to offset the inserted "for example" with a comma:

We know that from other antivirals: treatment for HSV and for influenza both, for example, work.

But at heart that sentence needs to be revised beyond the subject-verb agreement. It's a symptom.

Ari Meermans · Oct 12, 2020

What if I were to tell you you're all correct? Grammatically, that is. It depends on the meaning you're trying to convey (as Chris mentioned) since "treatment" is the subject. (See Merriam-Webster.)

The fact is it's a clunky sentence—as the confusion between "both" and "treatment" as the subject attests in the previous posts—and we need to strive for clarity in our writing, so AW Admin's post is the key:

AW Admin said:
It should be work. Remove the insertion "for example" (and it needs a comma!) Treatment for HSV and for influenza both work.

There are larger problems with the sentence that are creating the subject verb agreement problem.

Generally speaking, when a native or natively fluent speaker of English has a subject verb agreement problem that's a sign that the subject of the sentence isn't clear, and often, that you need to front the verb, that is, place the verb and the subject closer together in the sentence.

You need to offset the inserted "for example" with a comma:

We know that from other antivirals: treatment for HSV and for influenza both, for example, work.

But at heart that sentence needs to be revised beyond the subject-verb agreement. It's a symptom.

[Bolding mine.]

MaeZe · Oct 12, 2020

Chris P said:
"Treatment works" is only correct if it's the same treatment for both. If they are different treatments, then shouldn't it be "the treatments for HSV and influenza work"?

Your sentence structure is much better, however the treatment being referred to is the same: an antiviral given within the first 24 hours after symptom onset.

Layla said:
I was thinking that the 'works' goes with 'both' - actually I had a hard time following the sentence as written - but sometimes these things are harder to follow out of context when we're looking for bugs...

I'm not surprised. It happens when I answer with thoughts in my head and don't take the time to write the sentence properly.

AW Admin said:
It should be work. Remove the insertion "for example" (and it needs a comma!) Treatment for HSV and for influenza both work.

There are larger problems with the sentence that are creating the subject verb agreement problem.

Thanks and you are absolutely right, of course.

AW Admin said:
... a subject verb agreement problem that's a sign that the subject of the sentence isn't clear, and often, that you need to front the verb, that is, place the verb and the subject closer together in the sentence.

That's exactly the problem I was having! I will remember this in the future. Instead of trying to figure out the subject, rewrite the sentence more clearly.

And thanks Ari and Liz for your input as well.

Tricky grammar question about subject/verb agreement.

MaeZe

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

MaeZe

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

Layla Nahar

Seashell Seller

AW Admin

Ari Meermans

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter

MaeZe