COVID-19: Coronavirus, October 2020

frimble3 · Oct 18, 2020

Take heart, Americans, we have idiots up here, too.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...uver/ar-BB1a8llC?ocid=hplocalnews&OCID=FIRPLC

We have anti-mask idiots on Vancouver Island, a large and lovely place that, by it's name, indicates that there is no direct land connection.
You have to take a ferry there and back to get to the mainland.

These anti-maskers get on the ferry, intending to attend a 'freedom rally' in Vancouver to denounce the use of masks, distancing and other restrictions on their opportunities to catch COVID.
Unfortunately, they started protesting a little early, hassling and verbally abusing other, mask-wearing and rules-compliant passengers.

In the end, the police had to be called in. Anyone being identified as part of the group will be denied passage on BC Ferries, for at least the rest of the day.
Some people will get an unplanned visit to Vancouver - others, with responsibilities at home, well, I hope the guys who offer air-taxi service soak them for all they're worth.

Oh, and the rest of the ferries on that run were delayed by 45 minutes. People just hate that. Probably more than they hate wearing masks.

cbenoi1 · Oct 18, 2020

frimble3 said:
Take heart, Americans, we have idiots up here, too.

And covidiot leaders to go along with them!

O’Toole and Kenney sit side-by-side for UCP general meeting livestream with no masks
https://globalnews.ca/news/7403905/kenney-otoole-livestream-covid-19/

“I’m the easiest guy to hang out with because I can’t give it or get it from anyone for four months,” O’Toole said, answering Kenney’s question about how O’Toole was doing after he and his wife got the novel coronavirus last month.
{...}
According to Alberta Health spokesman Tom McMillan, the province still advises everyone to wear masks when physical distancing isn’t possible. He said that includes those who have already had COVID-19. “Evidence is still emerging on whether re-infection is a possibility,” McMillan said on Saturday. No one from the Conservative Party responded Saturday when asked for comment.

Leading by example going out the window.

-cb

Introversion · Oct 18, 2020

frimble3 said:
Take heart, Americans, we have idiots up here, too.

Boooooo, we’re supposed to serve as an example of what not to do!

cbenoi1 · Oct 18, 2020

Introversion said:
Boooooo, we’re supposed to serve as an example of what not to do!

A South-pointing compass in every way.

-cb

Introversion · Oct 18, 2020

Hee hee! “Wear a mask” as Beauty & the Beast’s “Be our guest”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltjBT_TuUVA

Roxxsmom · Oct 18, 2020

Introversion said:
Hee hee! “Wear a mask” as Beauty & the Beast’s “Be our guest”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltjBT_TuUVA

"Listen, Karen, I don't care."

Clever! One thing we can count on: crisis brings out creativity in people.

cbenoi1 · Oct 18, 2020

Geniuses!!

-cb

Lyv · Oct 18, 2020

Ha! My friend's 11-year-old daughter has been singing her own version of that since March (and her mom makes masks, donating most and selling some to pay for more mask supplies).

Tazlima · Oct 19, 2020

Roxxsmom said:
What really worries me is the number of people who will likely shrug off the virus and get together with family this holiday season. It's easy to rationalize that it's "just a holiday meal," or that "we've been good about distancing, so we can stay at grandma's house and not expose her to anything over Christmas." But in some cases, people may not be as unexposed as they think.

Sigh. I'm about to have this problem. I haven't seen my mother for over a year. I'd love to visit her and for the first time in my life, I have a job that gives a reasonable amount of paid vacation time. I have a whole week saved up already.

But Mom's elderly, high-risk, and across the country from me. A safe and responsible visit would mean flying in, quarantining for two weeks, visiting for maybe a day or two, flying back, and quarantining for two more weeks before returning to work.

And that's a best-case scenario where I don't get sick myself.

I want to see my mother. I know she's lonely and bored, and she's dying to see me and show off her new house (she moved a few months ago to be closer to my brother's family, which is a huge relief for all of us), but if my choices are put her (and after returning, my coworkers') health at risk, or take more than a month off work... neither is really viable.

sandree · Oct 19, 2020

Tazlima said:
Sigh. I'm about to have this problem. I haven't seen my mother for over a year. I'd love to visit her and for the first time in my life, I have a job that gives a reasonable amount of paid vacation time. I have a whole week saved up already.

But Mom's elderly, high-risk, and across the country from me. A safe and responsible visit would mean flying in, quarantining for two weeks, visiting for maybe a day or two, flying back, and quarantining for two more weeks before returning to work.

And that's a best-case scenario where I don't get sick myself.

I want to see my mother. I know she's lonely and bored, and she's dying to see me and show off her new house (she moved a few months ago to be closer to my brother's family, which is a huge relief for all of us), but if my choices are put her (and after returning, my coworkers') health at risk, or take more than a month off work... neither is really viable.

I’m finding this decision so difficult. Our local extended family is having a Thanksgiving dinner at one of the kid’s homes. Several people are working outside the home daily. Other relatives on her husband’s side that I don’t know well are coming. I’ve decided to skip it, but it feels so uncomfortable to be the only ones who are declining. We’re over 65 and I’ve had some unknown post infectious issue for many years. The last thing I want to do after all this time, is make an impulsive decision, fueled by social pressure. My son, who is training as a Physician Assistant tells me I am too cautious. Ugh. The social aspects of this are putting a strain on everyone.

lizmonster · Oct 19, 2020

My parents are both in assisted living diagnosed with dementia, and my father in particular has trouble with the practical realities of the world. I'm going to have to tell them we can't do Christmas together this year. This is not a conversation I'm looking forward to.

Roxxsmom · Oct 19, 2020

lizmonster said:
My parents are both in assisted living diagnosed with dementia, and my father in particular has trouble with the practical realities of the world. I'm going to have to tell them we can't do Christmas together this year. This is not a conversation I'm looking forward to.

This has got to be especially hard, especially if they are at the point where they don't remember things you told them and so on. My husband's stepfather has Alzheimer's, and it's really a cruel disease.

I am also agonizing over the upcoming holidays. I anticipate some pressure, as it is our year to go down and spend Christmas with my family in Southern CA. I haven't seen my own mom since last Jan. We always stay with Mom, who is 81 and still recovering from a case of shingles she had last Feb. And she has heart issues and an autoimmune disorder. So she really is one of those people who would very likely die if she gets this. I anticipate pressure from my brother more than her actually. I'm sure he'll offer to host Christmas and for us to stay with him (which would be a disaster with two dogs we always bring down at the holidays and their having a daughter back from college in the house. I expect guilt and admonishments that we don't know how long mom, or anyone else, has, and we have to make the best use of the time we have blah, blah, blah, and we'll be careful and do all the Christmas stuff outside (unless it is raining, of course) and masked (except when we are eating, of course).

He's an MD and is meticulous at work, but not so much in his personal life. I'm not saying he's going out unmasked or anything. He always wears masks when indoors and follows official guidelines about social distancing, but he and my SIL also get together with family friends sometimes and go to his daughters' ball game (schools may still be closed in CA, but youth sports are on), and my 19-year-old niece will be home from college for Christmas, staying with them and bringing whatever germs she might have gotten at Davis living in an apartment with three other sophomores. Even if Caitlyn is very careful, I doubt all three of her roommates are being 100% careful away at college. My brother is no covid denier, and he hates Trump as much as I do, but he has more faith in the official guidelines than I do. They go to restaurants that have outside tables six feet apart, for instance, and we're not comfortable doing this.

And there is another situation that is risky too: college students coming home for the holidays with silent or mild cases and exposing other family members. It's not inconceivable that our 19-year old niece could bring a special present home from college.

Roxxsmom · Oct 20, 2020

Some good news for a change on the Covid front. Cases may be spiking again, but it does appear that death rates among hospitalized Covid-19 patients are dropping an average of 18 percentage points across all demographics, even among the older and more vulnerable patients (so the decreased death rate is not just because more younger patients are getting it now).

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ies-point-to-big-drop-in-covid-19-death-rates

The study, which was of a single health system, finds that mortality has dropped among hospitalized patients by 18 percentage points since the pandemic began. Patients in the study had a 25.6% chance of dying at the start of the pandemic; they now have a 7.6% chance.

That's a big improvement, but 7.6% is still a high risk compared with other diseases, and Horwitz and other researchers caution that COVID-19 remains dangerous.

The death rate "is still higher than many infectious diseases, including the flu," Horwitz says. And those who recover can suffer complications for months or even longer. "It still has the potential to be very harmful in terms of long-term consequences for many people."

This is most likely because doctors have learned how best to care for Covid patients. However, the death rate is still higher than for other infectious respiratory type diseases, including the flu, and of course there are also the risk of long-term complications and debility. However, other factors could be driving this too. For instance widespread mask wearing could reduce the initial viral load that patients receive, which can lead to milder or more recoverable illness. And of course keeping hospitals below their maximum capacity also improves survival rates. Overcrowded ICUS and overworked staff won't be able to provide the best care for their patients.

It is important for people to remember that this promising news does not mean Covid is now a benign illness that one should be blase about the way some might be about the flu or a cold or that they should stop wearing masks or social distancing.

Another bit of encouraging news is that masks really do appear to work for preventing spread (if everyone wears them). A study involving Emirates airline (which is very strict about masking) flights from Dubai to Hong Kong (where all passengers are screened upon landing, quarantined for two weeks, then screened again) suggests that mask wearing is a highly effective means at preventing spread on long plane flights.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...sk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Introversion · Oct 21, 2020

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/10/trial-to-deliberately-infect-people-with-coronavirus-draws-mixed-reaction/

Ars Technica said:
Researchers in the United Kingdom plan to begin intentionally infecting a small batch of healthy young people with the novel coronavirus in January as part of a first “human challenge trial,” according to an announcement Monday.

The plan has not yet been approved by the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA), which regulates clinical trials in the UK, and outside experts have had mixed reactions to the announcement so far.

Nevertheless, the UK government is planning to invest $43.4 million (33.6 million pounds) in the trials. Researchers meanwhile are preparing to recruit an initial 30 to 50 people, aged 18 to 30, who have no underlying health conditions. Those conditions include diabetes, heart disease, or obesity, all of which would put them at greater risk of the pandemic coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, and the disease it causes, COVID-19.

The first phase of the trial will try to determine the smallest number of virus particles necessary to spark an infection. Participants will stay in a secure area of London’s Royal Free Hospital for the whole of the trial and will be monitored for weeks before release. If all goes to plan, the researchers will move forward with testing candidate vaccines and therapies in people purposefully exposed to the virus. So far, no specific experimental vaccines are lined up for the trials, though.

While the plans and the regulatory review move forward, experts have expressed both support for the effort and doubts about its usefulness.

...

Roxxsmom · Oct 22, 2020

Introversion said:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/10/trial-to-deliberately-infect-people-with-coronavirus-draws-mixed-reaction/

As useful as this information could be to know, I am shocked they are doing this when complications have been reported in younger, healthier patients. Yes, death is quite rare in healthy, nonobese people under 30, but some of these patients do experience long-term effects, such as loss of taste and smell that doesn't come back, brain fog, long-term lung issues, fatigue etc. This virus isn't one where people who don't die all make complete recoveries.

I suppose this study will help us learn more about the incidence of lingering illness and long-term complications, but I don't know how many will be lining up to volunteer, unless they are paid extraordinarily well. Even mild cases can be very unpleasant.

There are also ethical issues about paying volunteers, though, as poorer people would feel more pressure to volunteer.

cbenoi1 · Oct 22, 2020

Roxxsmom said:
Some good news for a change on the Covid front. Cases may be spiking again, but it does appear that death rates among hospitalized Covid-19 patients are dropping an average of 18 percentage points across all demographics, even among the older and more vulnerable patients (so the decreased death rate is not just because more younger patients are getting it now).

This is rather typical of a virus. The first version is usually very nasty. Then the virus adapts because killing the host - or fostering conditions that limit spreading - is not a good option.

Roxxsmom said:
Another bit of encouraging news is that masks really do appear to work for preventing spread (if everyone wears them).

/sarcasm ON

Really? Masks work? I'm flabbergasted. Really. Flabbergasted, I'll say.

/sarcasm OFF

If only some leader would read this aloud...

-cb

Sage · Oct 22, 2020

Sigh, this employee of mine has had three separate incidents of potential COVID exposure. The first one knocked out all but 3 people in the lab for several days because after his exposure, a bunch of my coworkers had a party, and then they all were told they had to stay home until the original person with symptoms got a negative test (or all quarantine 14 days). The second was symptoms his boyfriend was exhibiting (negative test), and then this weekend, he invited over someone who has since tested positive. Why isn't he learning? He has no sick time, not even with the extra week of sick time we were granted specifically for COVID reasons (he spent those on heartbreak, not being sick, I unfortunately was too late to discover), and very little vacation time.

Okay, the first time was annoying, but lots of people were navigating how to deal with COVID at the time, and clearly nobody else in the lab (except 1 person who wisely stayed home because of COVID (the others were studying that night or not invited)) thought it was a problem. Second time, unlucky that boyfriend has symptoms. Third time? You invited someone over? Didn't wear masks? To me, this just suggests that he's really not bothering outside the lab at all (he's one who leaves his nose uncovered unless I remind him or takes it down while on the microscopes). It's super-frustrating, not just for myself but also on behalf of my staff, who continue to be in danger, although we have clear policies in the lab. It's clear case of feeling invincible, even though all evidence points to the opposite, since he keeps having to stay home for the same thing.

Roxxsmom · Oct 22, 2020

cbenoi1 said:
This is rather typical of a virus. The first version is usually very nasty. Then the virus adapts because killing the host - or fostering conditions that limit spreading - is not a good option.

/sarcasm ON

Really? Masks work? I'm flabbergasted. Really. Flabbergasted, I'll say.

/sarcasm OFF

If only some leader would read this aloud...

-cb

The articles attached provide a bit more context. It's not clear yet whether the Covid-19 virus has become less virulent already. Some, but by no means all, viruses do this. That's not one of the explanations listed in the attached article, anyway. Regardless, it remains something no one should want to catch, and if case numbers grow to a point that they are clogging local ICUs, death rates could climb again.

For the second, the context was on airplane flights, which are a circumstance where one might expect a lot of transmission (since people are crowded together for prolonged periods, and there were cases traced to air travel early on). Most mask studies have been pretty indirect and are observations made under less controlled circumstances when exposure to the virus is unknown. But in this case they were on an airline that enforces mask wearing throughout the entire flight (not all do), and flying to a country that screens people upon landing, quarantines them for two weeks, then screens them again. This makes for much better data comparisons.

Speaking of airlines, at the other end of the distribution is Spirit, which evidently let a woman on who was so ill with Covid that she died en route. The airline is not being very forthcoming about whether or how then are contact tracing all the folks on the flight. With this kind of slipshod approach (common in the US), it is almost impossible to collect meaningful data.

Friendly Frog · Oct 23, 2020

Track and trace seems to be where we are failing and failing badly but no one wants to admit that after several months now of 'tracking', they still need to use Chinese or Italian data from the start of the pandemic to determine -theoretically- where new infections now occur. At least we're not the only European country who's failing here. But still. I wanted to scream when they straightfaced admitted that the latest batch of limits and rules is based on where people 'think' their infection occured. Now, I may be alone in this regard, but I have serious doubts of ordinary people, myself included, being able to judge well where they got infected or whether such opinions is a good basis to base your anti-pandemic-plan on!

*sigh*

Another article I read, which may be of more interest, mentioned that authorities here apparently have been looking into looping in influencers to reach the youth and instill the need of hygiene measures into them (since the teens and young adults continue to make up a large part of new infections). Youngsters don't watch the regular news and get their news and information increasingly from influencers on social media.

The project was a bust because the majority apparently didn't see the need of measures to stop the pandemic, some preferred the conspiracy theories and others just demanded money.

Ouch.

BenPanced · Oct 26, 2020

Meanwhile, the fake virus has hit the faux news: Fox president and anchors are told to quarantine.

cbenoi1 · Oct 26, 2020

If Hubris had a child with Arrogance, that child would be called FoxNews.

-cb

RedRajah · Oct 26, 2020

Woke up feverish, achy and with a wet cough. Finally got an appointment for testing tomorrow morning.

I'm scared, guys.

Introversion · Oct 26, 2020

RedRajah said:
Woke up feverish, achy and with a wet cough. Finally got an appointment for testing tomorrow morning.

I'm scared, guys.

Oh, man, fingers crossed for you!!

Introversion · Oct 26, 2020

https://shawneemissionpost.com/2020...s-have-stalled-major-rise-in-covid-19-104860/

Shawnee Mission Post said:
Researchers at the University of Kansas report counties with mask mandates thwarted significant escalation in transmission of COVID-19 and counties operating without a requirement people wear a face covering suffered steady infection rate increases.

Elected county government leaders in 80 Kansas counties rejected the order issued in July by Gov. Laura Kelly mandating every Kansas resident to wear a mask in public places where 6 feet of social distancing couldn’t be maintained. Four Kansas counties stopped short of rebuking the governor, choosing to decline to enforce Kelly’s mask order.

Twenty-one counties in Kansas maintain a mask mandate, including Sedgwick County, which adopted the rule in September after the virus flared in southcentral Kansas. Sedgwick was among 11 counties to belatedly come on board with a mask edict.

Donna Ginther, a distinguished professor of economics and director of KU’s Institute for Policy and Social Research, said research showed Kansas counties with a mask mandate could expect seven fewer cases per day for every 100,000 people.

Adherence to the governor’s mask mandate in Johnson County is associated with 6.5 to 8.5 fewer cases per day for every 100,000 population, she said.

“Cases in counties with a mask mandate stopped increasing. They didn’t go away. They stopped increasing,” Ginther said. “And, cases in counties without a mandate, starting in mid-August, just kind of went crazy.”

The KU researchers demonstrated Kansas counties without the mask order experienced a surge in coronavirus infection rates that climbed from about 10 cases per 100,0000 in July to nearly 40 cases per 100,000 in October. The number of cases for counties covered by the mask order plateaued since July at around 20 cases per 100,000.

...

lizmonster · Oct 26, 2020

RedRajah said:
Woke up feverish, achy and with a wet cough. Finally got an appointment for testing tomorrow morning.

I'm scared, guys.

Sending good thoughts your way. There are other things flying around these days - here's hoping you have something benign, and very mild.

COVID-19: Coronavirus, October 2020

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