COVID-19: Coronavirus, October 2020

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Lest we lose track of what's happening outside the Presidential case cluster, cases are still increasing in 33 states. Hopes that the infection rate would be low prior to the winter influenza season have turned out to be in vain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...c957d6-04db-11eb-a2db-417cddf4816a_story.html

I continue to be frustrated by the lack of cohesiveness and discipline, and the lack of awareness how this virus spreads. Just because case numbers are stable in one county doesn't mean people from a county where case numbers are increasing won't visit and spread the virus. And of course stable case numbers can start to tick upwards again once people are allowed to mingle more freely.

When my spouse and I were picking up curbside takeout last night, we couldn't help noticing how the restaurant is now allowing diners inside, though at reduced capacity. I simply wouldn't feel safe being indoors for an hour with my mask off, even if the other diners are more than ten feet away. People talk a lot over meals, and few of them replace their masks when they are not eating as they are supposed to. Talking spreads the virus. We've pretty much agreed we won't be eating in a restaurant again until we've had vaccines that appear to be quite effective and case numbers are really low.
 

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
14,535
Reaction score
24,104
Location
Massachusetts
Website
elizabethbonesteel.com
MA is making me absolutely crazy. The governor is planning on Monday to open things up more in towns considered safe (or safer). My big question: what's to stop people from driving to the next town to have dinner out? It's madness.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
After doing a pretty good job for seven months, Charlie Baker has lost his damn mind. Our seven-day average of positive test results had come down to 0.8%. The average of the last seven days is 44%. Hospitals are using surge capacity again (six a few days ago, two today, but that number will rise. Until now, I think he was doing what was best for Massachusetts. Now, I think he realizes a lot of us who are wearing masks and thanking him for listening to science did not vote for him, and many still won't, but that more of the "masks are fascism" crowd will if he gives in on opening up.

I'm in Quincy (about fifteen minutes south of Boston) and a police officer came to my house the other day (nothing was wrong) and when I came out, he reached for my storm door and waited for me to open the porch door. He not wearing a mask, nor did I see one in his pocket or hand. We talked through the door. I called QPD to ask their policy and it's about what I'd expect, vague and wishy-washy. Masks are supposed to be worn. He went to several other houses, too (he was trying to find the owners of a car blocking a tree that needed to be trimmed).
 

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
17,864
Reaction score
4,639
Location
dunking doughnuts at Dunkin' Donuts
The Screamin' Cheeto had a rally in Minnesota after the debate and before he announced he tested positive. Photos and video from said rally show nary a mask in sight. It's a great time to be in Minnesota.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
MA is making me absolutely crazy. The governor is planning on Monday to open things up more in towns considered safe (or safer). My big question: what's to stop people from driving to the next town to have dinner out? It's madness.

Same here in CA. Our county just went from purple to red, which means restaurants' indoor dining rooms can be opened at 25% capacity. That worked so well last time they thought we were at a place where it was safe.

https://abc7news.com/health/map-counties-that-can-cant-reopen-under-new-rules/6393906/

We have all these counties at different levels of opening, but it's not like we can install bubbles, or even checkpoints, between them.
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
One object lesson from this whole White House outbreak is that aggressive testing is not sufficient to contain this virus, not without masks, social distancing, and well-ventilated spaces. You need to combine these approaches for best effect. If we're serious about wanting to open schools and workplaces safely, people need to take notice. When social distancing and mask use can't be enforced, and you can't provide adequate ventilation in places where people congregate, it's not safe to bring people together.

https://www.npr.org/sections/latest...ger-of-test-only-strategy-to-prevent-infectio
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
And this has happened: The CDC finally admits that airborne transmission is a thing with Covid-19. To clarify this (though the AW crowd are well versed already), airborne transmission differs from simple droplets because droplets usually settle quickly so only travel six feet or so (though that is controversial too), but the viral nuclei of droplets that evaporate before landing, and the fine mist that can result from loud talking, singing, shouting, sneezing etc. can carry much finer particles that can travel much further and spread throughout an enclosed space and increase in concentration over time.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...onavirus-can-spread-via-airborne-transmission

The CDC has been quite resistant to applying the scientific findings about aerosols to their recommendations, and the WHO still has not (to my knowledge) done so. I think this is because new guidelines mean all medical personnel should wear N-95 respirators, not just those performing intubations, and it also means the whole six feet distance thing won't be sufficient in some settings (especially indoor ones where people are in contact for long periods of time).

I imagine this could impact bars and restaurant re-openings, if any one in charge of public health cares to point this out (it also consistent with the fact that twice as many people diagnosed with covid have eaten in a restaurant in the past two weeks than have controls). Of course, bars and restaurants focus on social distancing, as people can't wear masks while eating and drinking. But tables are typically placed only 6' apart, and no consideration seems to be given to the ventilation systems that may or may not be present.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
White House Blocks New Coronavirus Vaccine Guidelines

Top White House officials are blocking strict new federal guidelines for the emergency release of a coronavirus vaccine, objecting to a provision that would almost certainly guarantee that no vaccine could be authorized before the election on Nov. 3, according to people familiar with the approval process.

Facing a White House blockade, the Food and Drug Administration is seeking other avenues to ensure that vaccines meet the guidelines. That includes sharing the standards with an outside advisory committee of experts — perhaps as soon as this week — that is supposed to meet publicly before any vaccine is authorized for emergency use. The hope is that the committee will enforce the guidelines, regardless of the White House’s reaction.


The struggle over the guidelines is part of a monthslong tug of war between the White House and federal agencies on the front lines of the pandemic response. White House officials have repeatedly intervened to shape decisions and public announcements in ways that paint the administration’s response to the pandemic in a positive light.
I keep trying to craft a comment that won't get me banned and can't. The barrage of awfulness has been especially bad today.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
And what's the only group that is worse at compliance and awareness than Pro-Trumpers?
Children.
There's no way that opening schools was a sane idea, in our country or yours.
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,775
Reaction score
6,482
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
CSPAN had an excellent vaccine lecture/conference on this weekend. I watched the whole thing (rerun) this morning but I'm going to watch it again.

Discussion on COVID-19 Vaccine Research and Development
The Center for Global Development held a virtual discussion on COVID-19 vaccine research and development. Medical and global health leaders discussed the timeline for a vaccine discovery, the efficacy of the vaccine, and the need for diversity in research to determine the risk factors with the vaccine. They also briefly spoke about manufacturing and distribution challenges, as well as the need for global partnership in the development of a vaccine.

It's quite the eye-opener when it comes to analyzing the timeframe for vaccine development and distribution. The transcript alone isn't enough without the slides. But if you don't have enough time, watch the section with the graphs about vaccine development timing.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
And what's the only group that is worse at compliance and awareness than Pro-Trumpers?
Children.
There's no way that opening schools was a sane idea, in our country or yours.

And for all those who still cling to the hypothesis (at this point, it is really just a hope, or maybe even irrational belief) that kids rarely spread the virus, a large study just came out of India that kids and super spreaders are driving cases there. This is the largest study ever of transmission patterns of Covid-19.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ving-covid-19-cases-in-india-huge-study-finds
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,866
Location
Massachusetts
Trump says he will not negotiate on COVID relief until after election

Axios said:
President Trump tweeted on Tuesday that he has instructed his representatives to stop negotiating with House Democrats on coronavirus relief until after the election, accusing Speaker Nancy Pelosi of "not negotiating in good faith."

Why it matters: The failure to deliver desperately needed aid to Americans was seen as a problem for both parties. Trump has now made it a White House decision to end negotiations.

Behind the scenes: Several Trump advisers told Axios' Jonathan Swan they are utterly perplexed by the decision. They need this like a punch in the face.

A Trump campaign adviser said of the president's decision to own pulling out of the talks: "You have to try to be this politically inept. What is going on in the White House? Where is Mark Meadows?"

One GOP lawmaker told Axios that this is "a gift" for Pelosi.

...
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com

Friendly Frog

Snarkenfaugister
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
4,098
Reaction score
4,943
Location
Belgium
Belgium is finally getting stricter rules as of friday. Cafes have to close again from 23h, close non-housemate contacts limited to 3 people etc. In August they locked-down the whole province for 500 cases a day but when now the whole country is well above 2000 cases, suddenly nobody wants to be the first to mention that maaaybe things aren't working out? *grumble* Yes, yes, I know they were soo busy forming a government (but hey, it's been only 16 months since the election...) and apparently doing that at the same time as combatting an epidemic is too difficult.

What I wish they wouldn't be so cagey about is the contact tracing results. It took way too long to get the contact tracing going here, and now that it's running, it should at least give a clue where all these infections are coming from. But they're not sharing that information and it's making me grumpy. Apparently half of the new cases are infections between housemates but where are the infections coming from to enter into homes? No clue. Is it the restaurants? Cafes? Schools? Have been searching all evening, can't find anything. One'd think this'd be important information but I seem to be the only one wanting to know.

My grandad of 90 has luckily just come out of quarantine and is on the mend. I haven't seen him since January, have been staying away to protect him only for him to get infected by his care takers. And the care home didn't want to admit personnel was infected until after his results came back positive. I have... opinions on that. I have been shouty and ranty about it all week.
 

Belle_91

With her nose stuck in a book
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 24, 2009
Messages
2,677
Reaction score
682
Location
Tennessee
I better not hear a fucking peep out of the conservatives this year about a "war on Christmas" when they elected a 21st century version of Ebenezer Scrooge. This is callous even from a Dickensian villain's standpoint.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
It's had a predictable effect on the stock market, given that the economy desperately needs some stimulus right now, and too little stimulus is far worse than too much stimulus.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...lus-outweigh-those-too-small-deal/3631325001/

Given that the stock market is the only economic indicator many (wealthy) Republicans seem to care about, I wonder how they feel about this right now.
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,775
Reaction score
6,482
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
Wonder who was able to convince Trump that shoving through a SC nominee was worth killing any chance at re-election.....

According to a talking head I didn't recognize on the news today, it was McConnell who told Trump they couldn't chew gum and walk at the same time. He supposedly told Trump to pick one or the other, the SCOTUS justice or the relief bill.

Not sure what McConnell was thinking but I suspect he believes this is his only chance to get another justice (meaning McConnell doesn't see Trump getting reelected). I would have thought it was smarter to confirm Barrett in the lame duck and use it as a motivation to reelect Trump.

There are a number of scenarios I can imagine: McConnell was worried that a pouting Trump would lose it. Probably not what McConnell was worried about.

McConnell may also believe, like Trump, that they need Barrett installed before the election in order to get a SCOTUS decision to install Trump.

But also it's most likely McConnell sees a deal on a new stimulus as something that will help the Democrats overall.

I hate McConnell.
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
But also it's most likely McConnell sees a deal on a new stimulus as something that will help the Democrats overall.

I hate McConnell.

He's utterly loathsome. Trump is horrible, and irrational, and stupid and corrupt and always has been. He's probably incapable of any kind of empathy or moral reasoning due to his severe personality disorder(s).

McConnell is worse in many ways because he has that clear-eyed, cynical rationality and is all about advancing his personal power and party agenda, using whatever means necessary. I have no doubt he knows what Trump is and what the likely long-term effects on our democracy are, but he doesn't care as long as he gets elected and his party stays in power. Despicable.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
This makes me glad we've been what most would consider overly cautious when it comes to cleaning surfaces and quarantining anything that comes into the house. Though, according to this maybe we still weren't careful enough. I know the risk of getting the virus through touch is low, especially if you wash you hands a lot (we do), but some of us are working with poor immune systems.

Virus that causes Covid-19 can survive up to 28 days on surfaces, scientists find

Australian scientists have found that the virus that causes Covid-19 can survive for up to 28 days on surfaces such as the glass on mobile phones, stainless steel, vinyl and paper banknotes.

The national science agency, the CSIRO, said the research undertaken at the Australian Centre for Disease Preparedness (ACDP) in Geelong also found that Sars-CoV-2 survived longer at lower temperatures.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I know we've discussed this here before, but recovery from Covid isn't a binary thing. It's not a matter of 1% of patients die, and everyone else who gets it recovers completely. Long-term effects are not uncommon, including neurological symptoms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/11/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[/quote]After contracting the coronavirus in March, Michael Reagan lost all memory of his 12-day vacation in Paris, even though the trip was just a few weeks earlier.

Several weeks after Erica Taylor recovered from her Covid-19 symptoms of nausea and cough, she became confused and forgetful, failing to even recognize her own car, the only Toyota Prius in her apartment complex’s parking lot.

Lisa Mizelle, a veteran nurse practitioner at an urgent care clinic who fell ill with the virus in July, finds herself forgetting routine treatments and lab tests, and has to ask colleagues about terminology she used to know automatically.

“I leave the room and I can’t remember what the patient just said,” she said, adding that if she hadn’t exhausted her medical leave she’d take more time off.[/quote]

The thing I haven't been sure of is how common these neurological symptoms are in survivors. What percentage of patients take months (or longer) to recover after they've cleared the virus? Are the only a tiny percentage, or are they a significant number? The answer is scary. According to a French Report, 37% of people who had been hospitalized for Covid have memory issues months later.

Science also has an article on lingering symptoms in Covid survivors.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ovid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

According to this article from Science, 87% of patients hospitalized for Acute Covid-19 are still struggling in various ways 2 months later. And according to the Covid Symptom study, 10-15% of survivors overall (this includes people with relatively mild cases) do not recover quickly.

So to make it clear, prolonged malaise and brain fog after Covid are far from uncommon aftereffects. Now some argue that PTSD may be an explanation for psychiatric and neurological symptoms in some survivors, because being in an ICU during a pandemic is especially traumatic, But I'm not sure I buy the PTSD explanation for patients who had milder disease (not hospitalized) but still have residual memory issues and brain fog.

Take home message: no one should be cavalier about catching this virus, even if they are in a demographic where very, very few people die (and even if they live a life where there is no risk of passing it around). This is something that needs to be made clearer to people, especially since our commander in chief is now a covid survivor. If people with ordinary jobs need extended leaves of absence after recover, it's scary to think of him being back at work so quickly.
 

Friendly Frog

Snarkenfaugister
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
4,098
Reaction score
4,943
Location
Belgium
As we crossed the cape of 10.000 cases a day earlier this week (for a country of 11 million) I am starting to definitely have Opinions about humanity collective dumbness...
 

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,314
Reaction score
7,098
Location
Albany, NY
Sadly, I think there will be a great deal more resistance to lockdown again in a lot of places that did it quickly the first time. I think the economics have leaders spooked. And let's face it, most places half-assed their initial lockdown response. This fall and winter are going to be very scary.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,777
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Sadly, I think there will be a great deal more resistance to lockdown again in a lot of places that did it quickly the first time. I think the economics have leaders spooked. And let's face it, most places half-assed their initial lockdown response. This fall and winter are going to be very scary.

What really worries me is the number of people who will likely shrug off the virus and get together with family this holiday season. It's easy to rationalize that it's "just a holiday meal," or that "we've been good about distancing, so we can stay at grandma's house and not expose her to anything over Christmas." But in some cases, people may not be as unexposed as they think.

And from what I see on social media, more and more people (and not just the Trumpians) are posting things that imply they are living normal lives: non socially distanced group pictures with friends and family, visits by air to see new grandbabies, weddings, birthday parties, and multiple reports of social activities that don't sound outdoors, invitations to people to come visit/stay with them and so on. Reminds me of the McSweeny's "Yet another dull quarantine weekend at home" article.

So I suspect we will see yet another big spike in cases after the holidays. But most people won't care unless it is they or their loved ones who get seriously sick or die, because they are bored with Covid, and humans are just crappy at dealing with ongoing, long-term risks that are low level at any point in time but greater over sustained periods.