Who Else Is Watching The Debate?

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
12,977
Reaction score
4,512
Location
USA
Website
brightdreamersbookreviews.blogspot.com
ETA: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by is a pretty scarey quote, especially when followed immediately with But something has to be done about Antifa.

That wasn't just a dog whistle. It was a dog alpenhorn. And you better believe all the junkyard dogs heard it.

He's not intending to win this. He's intending to steal it, over the bodies - figurative and quite possibly literal - of American voters...
 

Kaiser-Kun

!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
6,944
Reaction score
1,915
Age
39
Location
Mexico
That quote is going to be in the history books. Right before "The Day of the Rope" chapter title.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
The moderator, rightly or wrongly, is coming across as so unable to moderate as to be entirely biased in his directions

I don't know how anyone short of an archangel could moderate that, unless they were close enough to Trump to slap him upside the hair, or Trump was wired to be electro-shocked.
 

Sage

Currently titleless
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,562
Reaction score
22,367
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
Why, oh why, can't they just turn off the mikes when it's not their turn to speak?
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
The awful thing is Trump is totally setting the pace. I know that because I'm sitting here wishing Biden would just say more things. Even though so much of what Trump says is utterly illogical, he says it quickly enough that people will accept it.

Frimble, is there butter on that popcorn?
Of course. Popcorn without butter is chicken feed. Or the base ingredient in caramenl corn. But, I digress, there is lots of buttered popcorn. Have some and realize that you are looking at a magic moment in politics - the low point by which all other low points will be measured.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
I can only hope the network cancels the rest of the series. If the network does it, Trump can't claim that Biden 'backed out'. 'Cause Trump never gave up a microphone in his life.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,780
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I don't know how anyone short of an archangel could moderate that, unless they were close enough to Trump to slap him upside the hair, or Trump was wired to be electro-shocked.

I agree. Actually, Wallace pushed Trump harder than I expected.

His asking the proud boys to step back and stand by instead of to stand down was interesting. Don't think that was an accident. Stand by until after the election?

Also he blatantly lied about his income taxes, saying he had paid millions. I guess it's not perjury, because he wasn't under oath, but will that come back to him in some way?

Hmm, maybe putting debate contestants under oath could be a thing? Failing that, cutting their microphones when they go over or interrupt, or maybe even administering shocks to certain tender parts of their anatomy?
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,780
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
In other words, the Gish Gallop?

My only consolation is that most people seem to have made up their minds already.

That's exactly what Trump was doing. It's a frustrating tactic and hard to counter, doubly so because Biden is a stutterer and has to compose himself before he speaks.

There are ways to counter it, but it's tough. One is to let Trump rant for his two minutes then to pick the overarching thread of what he said, or repeated elements, to address or question. There is no way to counter every inane, fallacious, specious thing the galloper says without looking scattered and weak.

One thing is Trump kind of overdid it. He looked like an idiot. Yes, his base will think it's a victory, but they would have thought anything was a victory, or whined about how Biden was just so mean if Biden managed to hand him his ass.

Biden missed some chances to get digs in, as others have pointed out. He needs to be coached to be more on the lookout for those moments. Like pointing out the empty stands at the Tulsa Rally, not to mention the covid cases that emerged after (including Herman Caine).

But a big thing is he needs to hit home over and over again that Trump is supposed to be an astute businessman, but he lost so much money that he didn't pay any taxes. He needs to point out how he whines about people not liking him in the polls. And a perfect opportunity, when Trump said that only old people with preexisting conditions die of Covid, to say, "People like you?" Note that Obesity is a pre-existing condition that greatly reduces the risk of dying of Covid (there was a paper on this in Science just this week). Trump is obese, or close to it. He also pretty clearly fears getting Covid-19, whether he admits it or not.

Pointing out what an asshole he is, or what a liar, or how racist won't sway Trump's base, but it's possible that playing up how weak and phony Trump's alpha maleness really is might demoralize a few of them enough they forget to turn out.

Something of grave concern that can't be dropped is the fact that Trump has made it very clear he won't accept the results of the election if he loses and is preparing to make the preposterous claim that the mail in ballots will be corrupted and unreliable, because he knows there's a good chance the mail in ballots will favor Biden more.
 
Last edited:

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,775
Reaction score
6,482
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
Why, oh why, can't they just turn off the mikes when it's not their turn to speak?

That has to happen if they have more debates. I kept turning the sound down.

My POV: Trump is incapable of hearing criticism because of his pathologic narcissism. That's why he interrupts. The only way to address that is to cut off the mics.
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,867
Location
Massachusetts
There’s not enough whiskey or wine in the world to get me through watching that.

I’ve skimmed some coverage of it this morning. Not surprised at all. Trump’s preferred communication medium is tweets. Sounds like the “debate” was Twitter brought to life.

The “Proud Boys” comment from Trump was the bit that stands out to me. Unfortunately, I expect violence at some polls in November. And I’m really nervous about a Biden win, and violence when Trump refuses to accept the loss and the scenarios that have been gamed out come to pass. Trump would rather burn down the country than walk away willingly.
 

cbenoi1

Banned
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
5,038
Reaction score
977
Location
Canada
I skipped the debate, told my wife it was pointless, that Trump would go off script in the first minute, the debate would turn into a mudslinging clusterfuck from then on, and it would piss off at least half the US population. Trump would then Tweet all night about his resounding victory over Biden.

I watched the news this morning. All 5 minutes of it.

*shrug*

What else is new in Trump world.

-cb
 
Last edited:

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,617
Reaction score
7,298
Location
Wash., D.C. area
I watched a few minutes around the time they were talking about the Supreme Court, just at the start of the second hour. Yeah, no surprises from either Biden or Trump. I realized the only outcome of me watching was me being enraged. I would only be more fearful of Trump winning, more dismayed by any flubs by Biden, and just generally setting myself up for a sleepless night.

It's important for me to know the issues, to speak up, and to vote. The debate might have given me talking points for engagement or to better understand Trump supporters' views to provide more targetted response, but i can do that in other ways.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
More stochastic terrorism from Trump. More shrugs from the racist, treasonous GOP. They all have blood on their hands.

Far-Right Proud Boys Celebrate After Trump's Debate Call-Out

The Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group, pledged allegiance to President Donald Trump on Tuesday night after he told the group to "stand back and stand by" during the evening's debate, NBC News reports.

Many people on social media who identify with the group echoed that language, saying they were "standing down and standing by." One known social media account for the group made "Stand back. Stand by" part of its new logo.
 

Tazlima

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
1,494
My boyfriend left the room in the first five minutes, but I watched the whole thing out of some misguided sense of civic duty. It wasn't pleasant.

Re: cutting off the microphones, I heard leaving them on was one of the Trump team's hard requirements to agree to participate. I haven't seen that theory backed up anywhere official yet, but it certainly seems plausible.

What I took away from it is that Trump is way more out of control than four years ago. When he debated Hillary, he was an interrupting creepy creeper, but he WAS capable of shutting his trap for a few minutes at a time. Now, though, he's had nearly four years of absolute control of every conversation. If it's not ranting to adoring fans, it's holding press conferences and refusing to answer questions he doesn't like, or attending meetings staffed with sycophants and toadies. He's decided he doesn't have to listen to other people and that NOBODY CAN MAKE HIM.

He's gone full dictator...
 

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
12,977
Reaction score
4,512
Location
USA
Website
brightdreamersbookreviews.blogspot.com
What I took away from it is that Trump is way more out of control than four years ago. When he debated Hillary, he was an interrupting creepy creeper, but he WAS capable of shutting his trap for a few minutes at a time. Now, though, he's had nearly four years of absolute control of every conversation. If it's not ranting to adoring fans, it's holding press conferences and refusing to answer questions he doesn't like, or attending meetings staffed with sycophants and toadies. He's decided he doesn't have to listen to other people and that NOBODY CAN MAKE HIM. He's gone full dictator...
With the full blessing of the TeaOP, who looked America in the eye at the impeachment and told us they'd let him do anything - literally anything - and protect his power. That is definitely not a man (or a party) concerned with winning over or keeping a voting base. That's a man who is going to take power. How many times must he say it? How many more dog whistles must he blow to the militias? How often must he repeat that he's not going to listen to any election or honor any ballot he doesn't personally deign worthwhile (read: sufficiently in his favor)? How many times must he double down on the fascism before people actually believe him, and stop laughing him off as an out of touch buffoon who has "already lost"? Last time people laughed him off he didn't have a fraction of the leverage and cronies installed that he has now, and look where that got us. It's going to take more than a ballot to get that man and his enablers out. And I'm deeply afraid it's already too late...
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,643
Reaction score
14,867
Location
Massachusetts
In case anyone enjoys reading Charlie Pierce, here’s his take on last night’s dumpster fire:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a34215453/president-trump-first-debate-pure-fascism/

Esquire said:
If I am discovered in a state of advanced catatonia at any point in the next few days, please let it be placed on the permanent record that it was, "They'll take out all the cows!" that did it. I hung in there as long as a human being could, but then, in the middle of another manic episode during his debate with Joe Biden, El Caudillo del Mar-a-Lago started raving about the Green New Deal and the end of airplanes. He was overcome by the vision of AOC and Bernie Sanders out there on the Great Plains, cow-tipping. At this point, my higher faculties said, "Fck this noise. We're out of here," and got out of the business.

Before I was rendered into a root vegetable by the proceedings, I was thinking that, even in the midst of the howling shitstorm the president* brought with him, Joe Biden was missing a lot of chances. I was wishing that he wouldn't run so far so fast away from the Green New Deal. (Coupled with what I saw from Democratic senatorial candidates on Monday night, I am not optimistic on the chances of large-scale systemic change in a prospective Biden administration, even if it is gifted with Democratic congressional majorities.) I was wishing that Biden wouldn't seem so timid about the Black Lives Matter movement, and that he wouldn't insist on variations of the bad-apples theory when discussing police reform. Hell, I'd have stood and cheered if, when the president* was bragging on the crowds at his rallies, Biden had replied, "One of your rallies killed Herman Cain!" But, just when I started thinking that stuff, the president* reminded me that he is an unhinged primate who belongs in a zoo. Finally, the raving came around to the cows and broke my mind.

This is something that happened: in the very first segment of the very first presidential debate of 2020, the challenger, a former Vice President of the United States, already had called the incumbent president* of the United States a liar and a clown, and he told him to shut up. And he was right to do all three things.

...
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,780
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
In hindsight, how could we have expected anything else? The Right hasn't been arguing with the Left in good faith for years, not since the Tea Party years at least. Past Presidential debates had the facade of civility, but there's no reason for them to pretend anymore. Anyone who doesn't see Trump, and the party he leads, for what they are complicit on in deep denial, with their heads so far up their own asses they see their tonsils from behind.

I also think Trump expected Chris Wallace to be even more biased and enabling than he was. What we saw was a strategy designed to rattle and to expose Biden's weakness--his stuttering. Folks on the Right mock Biden, say Biden is stupid because of his speech impediment, and Trump played to that too.

This strategy also allowed Trump to spew out all his right-wing talking points and to throw bones to his White Nationalist allies. The Proud Boys are standing by now, possibly waiting to commit acts of violence and intimidation on election night and after. Will local police stop them in those critical swing states, and in southern states like North Carolina and Georgia, where the vote is close? I wish I had more confidence, but the police haven't exactly taken a hard line with White Nationalists.

There's a lot of gallows humor circulating on the web about last night's travesty. I've chuckled a few times, but we can't allow people who are aching (and they are out there, even on the left) to blame Biden as much as Trump. Yes, Biden failed to deal with it well, but again, there is only so much you can do when you are the only one still trying to play by the rules.

In the future, he needs to jab at every opening. Not dwell on things, not engage in prolonged, vicious attacks, but he needs to stab at Trump's tender flank when he leaves an opening. Trump is not attractive, he is not smart, he is not healthy or strong, he is not a good businessman, he is not even (by some definitions) wealthy, more people hate him than love him. Deep down he knows this and it enrages and terrifies him.

Missed opportunity--Trump bragging about his rallies and trying to get digs in about Biden not being able to fill stadiums, how Trump's followers love his rally: Something about how bored the guy who was all alone in the upper deck looked.

I'm not saying Biden should disregard the rules of engagement and sink to Trump's level, but he can't look weak or witless again.
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,775
Reaction score
6,482
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
I do think Biden should have been a little more prepared for Trump's predictable responses, especially Trump's bullying and talking out of turn. He could have have evidence of Trump lying at hand to use. I think Biden consciously didn't mention Herman Cain out of respect. But Biden could have cited some specific increases in fatalities after Trump's rallies.

"Go ahead, talk over me and Wallace. It's all lies and you know it." That alone would have been great. Biden did say "everyone knows he lies."

"I'm glad you brought up the Green New Deal. Here's what I support in that proposal and here's what I don't."


As for the Proud Boys comment, Trump might of been thinking he was supporting part of his base. But I also think that was part of Trump's pathology. He is absolutely incapable of ever retracting anything.


That Esquire piece is priceless. I wish I could write like that.
 
Last edited:

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Debates commission plans to cut off mics if Trump or Biden break rules

The commission that oversees the general election presidential debates said Wednesday it will be making changes to the format of the remaining two debates. One key change it plans to implement: Cutting off the microphones of President Trump and Joe Biden if they break the rules, according to a source familiar with the commission's deliberations. The plans have not been finalized and the commission is still considering how it would carry out the plan.

The Commission on Presidential Debates is responding to Tuesday's face-off between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden, the Democratic presidential nominee, which was marred by frequent interruptions by the president and mud-slinging.

If they do cut off mics, I might watch the next one (though it's ridiculous to even have more debates). Trump's bound to lose what is left of his mind right on stage. He's a disgrace.

The Trump Family Chose to Watch All of That Maskless and Indoors for Two Hours

Masks were required so of course they didn't wear them. What utter pigs.
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,775
Reaction score
6,482
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
Frank Luntz on Amanpour tonight in a discussion about the debate: "I'm not a Republican anymore."

Luntz is responsible for people using Democrat as an adjective instead of a noun. The proper form for an adjective is Democratic.


It concerns me he still thinks the election is too close to call. If rural voters come out in big numbers combined with the Hispanic vote Trump could still win. I can't for the life of me understand why Hispanics would vote for Trump.

I hope Biden listens to what Luntz has to say about his focus group's response: people want to know more about Biden's health care plan.
 
Last edited: