Forms of address — Middle Ages / Tudor

H7TM4N · Sep 26, 2020

I've been researching different forms of address to use in a medieval fantasy WIP. It's been difficult to pinpoint when different forms of address came into use. I found this source: http://walternelson.com/dr/node/253
which lists different forms used in Tudor England, could anyone clarify which of these, if any, were also in use during the Middle Ages?

For now I'm focused on address amongst common people/commoners of the time, not correct address in relation to titles of nobility, that's an entirely separate complex matter. For now, I'm leaning towards the use of "Goodman" and "Goodwife/Goody" as they were precursors to "Master" and "Mistress", I believe. Of course, "Mr./Mrs." certainly seem too modern. In addition, I believe "Father/Mother" were also used as polite ways to address respected elders at some point? Could anyone shine a light on when all of these came into common use?

Also, I would like to use the title "Master" as a substansive title for either master craftsmen/heads of crafts guilds, or scholars, which is a reason I wish not to use it for general address. In this world I'm writing in the use of surnames also isn't universal. Family names/last names are by far and large reserved for nobility (sir–names, if you will). Instead, place of birth is commonly used after the given name, or a possible exception might be the use of "bynames" in case two people in a small community share a given name. Might this have an effect on which possible forms of address to use?

Any information on forms of address/courtesy titles/honorifics is most welcome! Thanks in advance for anyone willing to help.

Roxxsmom · Sep 26, 2020

What approximate period does your world duplicate? Saxon? Post Norman, later medieval period? Much changed throughout the centuries. If your people are in a sort of alternative England, which language would they be speaking? Old English or Middle English?

I assume you are trying to be historical, or evoke a given historical period, even if it's in a secondary world? Otherwise a fantasy world can have whatever rules you'd like as far as honorifics and salutations.

This blog contains excerpts from (translated into modern English) letters, including the salutations, but they are mostly written by upper class people. I am guessing this would be because peasants and common tradespeople weren't terribly literate back then? Maybe this is why so little is out there, readily available on the web, about how commoners addressed one another prior to the Tudor era.

http://www.dragonbear.com/letters.html

This piece analyzes greetings in the Canterbury Tales. Evidently, the characters often someone by their profession was common in that document. "Sire Knight," "Sire Clerk" and so on. Honorifics can include things like "my Right Lady" or ""My Good Sire" or even "Madame."

https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/44707/1/Jucker_2011_Chaucer_proofs.pdf

I am guessing that relative social standing between addresser and addressee would be a factor too. If you are shooting for a Middle English feel, then it might be good to check out a copy of the Canterbury Tales.

This paper might also have some useful information for styles and usage during the 1400-1600 period, though that encompasses the end of the middle ages and beginning of the Early Modern era.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/10795/1/249352.pdf

If you're trying to be a stickler for a particular period in British history that isn't really, really early and confined to a small village, then you probably should include surnames of some kind, though these could simply be monikers that add extra description to the forename. I believe they came into use pretty early, though they were more fluid and could change as a person's circumstances changed. However, clan names did come into use pretty early in some places, I think.

There weren't a huge number of forenames in popular use, and it was handy to have a secondary name to differentiate John the Smith from John who lived by the Oak tree on the hill from John who was a son of a guy also named John. I believe they became more fixed and passed on (generally via male lines) after the Normans, and in the Nobility first, but I could be wrong about that.

https://namestories.com/pages/history-of-naming

One way fantasy modeled roughly on the middle ages differs from reality is the variety of names characters have. Certain names have been inordinately popular at different times in history. Even today, where no culture or concept is taboo for naming babies, we have naming fads, of course (as any teacher who has had multiple Hunters or Madisons in one class can attest--and in my generation, I have had several friends named Lisa, Jennifer and Tom). In post-Norman England, William was really common, for some strange reason. But authors tend to avoid duplicating character names, probably because they don't want to have three Marys, four Johns and five Maudes and confuse the reader.

Other countries used and use other conventions, of course, such as patronyms and matronyms (Iceland still does this).

But there are definitely people here on AW who can better point you to books or references for style and salutations in different times in British history.

AW Admin · Sep 26, 2020

First, the Middle ages encompass, in England, roughly AD 400 to 1485. Different dates apply elsewhere in Europe, and then there's the rest of the world.

Secondly, what language? You reference Tudor, which suggests England, but the Tudor were Welsh, and their eras stretch from the Middle ages to the Renaissance; indeed the Battle of Bosworth field and the publication of Caxton's Malory in 1485 is a popular cut off date for the end of the middle ages and teh start of the Renaissance in England.

Keep in mind as well that you're straddling different varieties of English; at the very least Middle English and Early Modern English.

You need to pick a more specific era.

And I'd suggest using literary sources; check out the Paston letters, for instance, available on line for free. Or work your way through the Canterbury Tales, even in translation,

H7TM4N · Sep 27, 2020

Thanks for the response so far. Because it is a fantasy piece I don't mind being quite flexible with time periods for inspiration, as long as it feels within reason for a "medieval-ish" feel. Having said that, if certain things fit together better that's worthwhile to know, I don't want ruin immersion because things obviously don't make sense put together. That's why I was interested in dating some of these customs.

H7TM4N · Sep 27, 2020

Roxxsmom said:
What approximate period does your world duplicate? Saxon? Post Norman, later medieval period? Much changed throughout the centuries. If your people are in a sort of alternative England, which language would they be speaking? Old English or Middle English?

I assume you are trying to be historical, or evoke a given historical period, even if it's in a secondary world? Otherwise a fantasy world can have whatever rules you'd like as far as honorifics and salutations.

This blog contains excerpts from (translated into modern English) letters, including the salutations, but they are mostly written by upper class people. I am guessing this would be because peasants and common tradespeople weren't terribly literate back then? Maybe this is why so little is out there, readily available on the web, about how commoners addressed one another prior to the Tudor era.

http://www.dragonbear.com/letters.html

This piece analyzes greetings in the Canterbury Tales. Evidently, the characters often someone by their profession was common in that document. "Sire Knight," "Sire Clerk" and so on. Honorifics can include things like "my Right Lady" or ""My Good Sire" or even "Madame."

https://www.zora.uzh.ch/id/eprint/44707/1/Jucker_2011_Chaucer_proofs.pdf

I am guessing that relative social standing between addresser and addressee would be a factor too. If you are shooting for a Middle English feel, then it might be good to check out a copy of the Canterbury Tales.

This paper might also have some useful information for styles and usage during the 1400-1600 period, though that encompasses the end of the middle ages and beginning of the Early Modern era.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/10795/1/249352.pdf

If you're trying to be a stickler for a particular period in British history that isn't really, really early and confined to a small village, then you probably should include surnames of some kind, though these could simply be monikers that add extra description to the forename. I believe they came into use pretty early, though they were more fluid and could change as a person's circumstances changed. However, clan names did come into use pretty early in some places, I think.

There weren't a huge number of forenames in popular use, and it was handy to have a secondary name to differentiate John the Smith from John who lived by the Oak tree on the hill from John who was a son of a guy also named John. I believe they became more fixed and passed on (generally via male lines) after the Normans, and in the Nobility first, but I could be wrong about that.

https://namestories.com/pages/history-of-naming

One way fantasy modeled roughly on the middle ages differs from reality is the variety of names characters have. Certain names have been inordinately popular at different times in history. Even today, where no culture or concept is taboo for naming babies, we have naming fads, of course (as any teacher who has had multiple Hunters or Madisons in one class can attest--and in my generation, I have had several friends named Lisa, Jennifer and Tom). In post-Norman England, William was really common, for some strange reason. But authors tend to avoid duplicating character names, probably because they don't want to have three Marys, four Johns and five Maudes and confuse the reader.

Other countries used and use other conventions, of course, such as patronyms and matronyms (Iceland still does this).

But there are definitely people here on AW who can better point you to books or references for style and salutations in different times in British history.

Thanks for all the resources, I'm gonna make some time soon to really dig into those. And you're right, I can't have five Johns anyway without making things confusing so I'll be more varied in the given names. Bynames are still a good way to make it work, ("surnames started off as bynames to distinguish two persons in the same locality"), so there might be John Smith/John Hillman/John tall"'s at some point. But those wouldn't be family names to be passed on. I would like different customs and ways of doing it, too, in case my characters travel to different lands.

Forms of address — Middle Ages / Tudor

H7TM4N

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

AW Admin

H7TM4N

H7TM4N