RIP, RBG. 2020, just STOP Already.

Prozyan

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The last time a POTUS wanted to change the number of justices it was proactive, a change to get something.


Yes, and ended up costing him considerable political capital and directly led to the demise of several New Deal propositions. FDR came out of that a clear loser. That is just a fact.

But more than a majority of voters are not happy with the shit McConnell pulled.

A Republican President and a Republican Senate majority that has held through two election cycles would indicate otherwise.

I just don't think it would be wise for Democrats to "go nuclear" again as doing so in the past hasn't worked out well.
 

MaeZe

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[/COLOR]Yes, and ended up costing him considerable political capital and directly led to the demise of several New Deal propositions. FDR came out of that a clear loser. That is just a fact.



A Republican President and a Republican Senate majority that has held through two election cycles would indicate otherwise.

I just don't think it would be wise for Democrats to "go nuclear" again as doing so in the past hasn't worked out well.

Merrick Garland being denied a confirmation vote was wrong. That McConnell 'could' is no different than Biden 'could'.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Right now we have to focus on getting Trump out.
 

Roxxsmom

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Merrick Garland being denied a confirmation vote was wrong. That McConnell 'could' is no different than Biden 'could'.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Right now we have to focus on getting Trump out.

Here's a thought. If Biden wins and the Democrats take the Senate too, once the POTUS is sworn in he can nominate Garland and say, "He was never given his hearing, which is unprecedented. So he's getting his hearing now." Assuming Garland is confirmed, the screaming will begin about an even number of justices on the court, and Biden could then solve the issue by nominating an 11th.

I'm still not sure how I feel about these machinations. BUT it does tie in with the tenet of game theory that if someone screws you over, you screw them over back, but only once.

And quite honestly, if Ginsberg had hung on, and one of the GOP people on the court retired or passed during Biden's term so the Democrats were successful in getting a 5-4 court majority during Biden's term, I have little doubt the GOP would pack the court themselves the next time they controlled the Presidency and Senate.

I hate having to think this way, though, and I hate the fact that the death of a truly great American, someone who should be mourned and honored without the taint of politics, has added even more fuel to an already raging political bonfire.
 

MaeZe

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I like those ideas, Roxxsmom. And it's worth noting that regardless of the Democrats expanding the court or not, if McConnell is still around I have little doubt he'd expand the court anyway if it served his court packing goals.
 

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Roxxsmom

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This is a good article on the way RBG went about "pathmaking," as she called it.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/24/9163...-ginsburgs-lifelong-fight-for-gender-equality

Ginsburg's arguments before the Supreme Court were rooted in her own experience with discrimination.

After law school, no firm would hire her, even though she graduated at the top of her class.

As a professor, Ginsburg was paid less than her male colleagues.

She hid a pregnancy under baggy clothes so she wouldn't lose a teaching job.

As a litigator, Peratis explains, Ginsburg took discriminatory laws and methodically eviscerated them, one by one.

"She realized that there were just a lot of trees that were ripe for being chopped down," Peratis says, "and decided that the way to approach the overall problem was to show that men and women were harmed by what she called putting them in pigeonholes."

This was another key part of Ginsburg's strategy: she argued a number of cases on behalf of male plaintiffs.

"She understood in a very broad way that stereotypes, gender stereotypes, really do hurt everybody," Peratis says. " They had and have a unique impact on women, but they also had an impact on men."
 

mccardey

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frimble3

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It is horrible, though.
His presence, his actions, or the booing?

They said of Teddy Roosevelt that 'he wanted to be the bride at every wedding, and the corpse at every funeral'.
That need to be the center of attention is deep in Trump, and he must be furious that this dead woman is getting more attention than he is, and that the crowds are booing him! Most of the crowds he faces are carefully selected to be pro-Trump, he's not used to hearing, not just opposition, but actual dislike.
Notice that, all of a sudden, with no-one but Melania around him, he's wearing a mask? Little too late to start sucking up, Donnie.
 

mccardey

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His presence, his actions, or the booing?

They said of Teddy Roosevelt that 'he wanted to be the bride at every wedding, and the corpse at every funeral'.
That need to be the center of attention is deep in Trump, and he must be furious that this dead woman is getting more attention than he is, and that the crowds are booing him! Most of the crowds he faces are carefully selected to be pro-Trump, he's not used to hearing, not just opposition, but actual dislike.
Notice that, all of a sudden, with no-one but Melania around him, he's wearing a mask? Little too late to start sucking up, Donnie.

All of those are awful.

I do wish we had the space to grieve the passing of a really remarkable woman.
 

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All of those are awful.

I do wish we had the space to grieve the passing of a really remarkable woman.

I suspect the late Ms. Ginsberg wouldn’t be all that upset, considering that her replacement will certainly be voting to undo everything she fought tor.

And really, Trump had to’ve known he’d be unwelcome there. He really is amazingly thick if he didn’t know.

And finally, it wasn’t her funeral, it was a state function. I’ll totally agree with you if that happens at her actual funeral, where her friends and family will mourn her passing.
 

mccardey

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I suspect the late Ms. Ginsberg wouldn’t be all that upset, considering that her replacement will certainly be voting to undo everything she fought tor.

And really, Trump had to’ve known he’d be unwelcome there. He really is amazingly thick if he didn’t know.

And finally, it wasn’t her funeral, it was a state function. I’ll totally agree with you if that happens at her actual funeral, where her friends and family will mourn her passing.
I’m not so sure. She was a very pragmatic incrementalist- I don’t think she’d have much time for non-effective performances of rage. I mean - I understand them, but I think RBG would prefer actions to be effective.
 
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Roxxsmom

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I’m not so sure. She was a very pragmatic incrementalist

I cringe when I see the Left behaving as the Right does, even when it's only a pale echo of the hate, intolerance, and incivility the Right regularly preaches and exemplifies. Sadly, there is a double standard in the country, and the Left must be ten times as "virtuous" as the Right to be considered righteous at all. One thing the Right has made clear, they care not a whit when they or one of theirs is a hypocrite, but they eagerly highlight the tiniest whiff of hypocrisy from the left. Sadly, the "middle" generally agrees with the Right re the emergent optics.

This always seems to be the case when someone pushes to change the status quo in ways that make "mainstream" America uncomfortable. It's the same thinking that forbids women or people of color from displaying anger or grief in situations where white men may do so freely (and even be praised for doing so).

The Left must be beyond reproach, just as women, People of Color, and LGBTQ people must be beyond reproach in order to be considered worthy of rights and consideration. It's horribly unfair, but the court of public opinion is rarely fair. Many would argue there is a a time and place for the Left to flout conventions, defy stereotypes, and push the envelops of what is deemed "proper," and I agree, but Ginsberg's lying in Repose probably isn't that time nor place.
 
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MaeZe

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Silver Lining: It's just possible that RBG's dying before the election and Trump/McConnell rushing her replacement through has taken away a big incentive to vote for Trump. If you are a one issue voter, making abortion illegal, you no longer have an incentive to reelect Trump.
 

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Silver Lining: It's just possible that RBG's dying before the election and Trump/McConnell rushing her replacement through has taken away a big incentive to vote for Trump. If you are a one issue voter, making abortion illegal, you no longer have an incentive to reelect Trump.

Mr. "Art Of The Deal" got out-maneuvered by McConnell. Again.

He should have promised a name after the elections. If he won.

-cb